35 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 13 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Missiles do not have sized hardpoints in this game. Missiles have tube counts. Those things are different.

They're not all at.

"Tube count hardpoints limit the class of weapon that can be placed on a hardpoint."
Versus
"Sized hardpoints limit the class of weapon that can placed on a hardpoint."
Literally no difference in function. So sized hardpoints, you are FOR 10/5/2.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Mark Nicholson, on 13 May 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

They did hire someone who cares. I'm doing as much as I can to get a lot of these things fixed. Revisions on the Victor and Quickdraw missiles should be out very soon.

Part of the issue with missile box placement is that any launcher in hardpoint 1 can't overlap with any launcher in hardpoint 2.
It looks reasonable when you've got a pair of LRM 20's, but less so when you're running a 3rd SRM2.

Another thing to consider is being faithful to the original design; I just found some old Kintaro images that do indeed have those aesthetically awful placements >_<

Thank you, Victor is a mech I'm looking forward to trying the new tech and skill trees on.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 13 May 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

They're not all at.

"Tube count hardpoints limit the class of weapon that can be placed on a hardpoint."
Versus
"Sized hardpoints limit the class of weapon that can placed on a hardpoint."
Literally no difference in function. So sized hardpoints, you are FOR 10/5/2.

Are you serious? You can still put LRM20 on a 2-slot launcher, in MWO. With sized hardpoints you cannot put LRM 20 in a LRM5 slot, at all. That's HUGE difference.

[HollowBassman]

Mark Nicholson, on 13 May 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

They did hire someone who cares. I'm doing as much as I can to get a lot of these things fixed. Revisions on the Victor and Quickdraw missiles should be out very soon.

Part of the issue with missile box placement is that any launcher in hardpoint 1 can't overlap with any launcher in hardpoint 2.
It looks reasonable when you've got a pair of LRM 20's, but less so when you're running a 3rd SRM2.

Another thing to consider is being faithful to the original design; I just found some old Kintaro images that do indeed have those aesthetically awful placements >_<

I'm sure you have to deal with many game restrictions that, from an artistic point of view, are incredibly frustrating. Thank you for fixing what you can. The thing about the Kintaro is that while the goofy laser placement is annoying, its the fact that you get a tacked on box even if you only use one arm missile hardpoint that is a deal-breaker for me.

I also know it will be hard to get the Trebuchet fixed as it was intentionally broken when it was fairly new because some people complained about losing their arm too easy. It was a bad idea though and since there are many mechs with arm missiles that don't have to live with a broken arm, I'm guessing someone already realized that. If I see someone with an lrm20 in their arm, I'm going to shoot that arm off no matter how tight the arm hitbox is to the body.

[Juodas Varnas]

HollowBassman, on 14 May 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

I'm sure you have to deal with many game restrictions that, from an artistic point of view, are incredibly frustrating. Thank you for fixing what you can. The thing about the Kintaro is that while the goofy laser placement is annoying, its the fact that you get a tacked on box even if you only use one arm missile hardpoint that is a deal-breaker for me.

I also know it will be hard to get the Trebuchet fixed as it was intentionally broken when it was fairly new because some people complained about losing their arm too easy. It was a bad idea though and since there are many mechs with arm missiles that don't have to live with a broken arm, I'm guessing someone already realized that. If I see someone with an lrm20 in their arm, I'm going to shoot that arm off no matter how tight the arm hitbox is to the body.

If anything, if the arm wasn't broken, the gap between it and the body would be larger, which would make more shots actually miss the mech entirely.

I trust Mark to make good work with the mechs, just gonna take some time. I do think that a LOT of the newer mechs especially ones made by Mark to begin with, have very good looking weapon geometry, including the missiles (i mean, just take a look at how good the Huntsman's geometry looks!)

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 14 May 2017 - 05:47 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

CK16, on 13 May 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...-missile-racks/

Please?!

It a shame to see thoses boxes on my wolves everyday, one day when the team gets to the boxes they can make it look better.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 14 May 2017 - 01:20 AM, said:

Are you serious? You can still put LRM20 on a 2-slot launcher, in MWO. With sized hardpoints you cannot put LRM 20 in a LRM5 slot, at all. That's HUGE difference.

Can you?
Anyway,doing it "sized hardpoints" would be stupid. Hardpoints would be limited by esoteric and arbitrary methods would only shift the meta to mechs that have the requisite hardpoints. Zero balance achieved, the explicit consideration PGI has for balance disregarded, and builds currently in mechbays would have to be dismantled, creating a "100 clicks" situation where every mech has to be entirely rebuilt.

Not to mention that the game already has sized hardpoints, when considering that the SLOTS MECHANIC already limits weapons placement for Arms, Head, CT harpoints, Mr. "Should Battlemechs should be able to remove their hand actuator?"

Sized hardpoints: #1 worst idea.

Edited by Snowbluff, 14 May 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[mouser42]

The best solution that works for me, when I see a truly hideous mech that offends my visual sense of mech feng shui I just shoot it problem fixed well I also shoot the prettie ones too that first scratch to the paint can realy piss mech jocks off

[JediPanther]

If the "new" weapons for missiles bring back those damed *** vcr's on the Catapults I will be making a *cough* vacation stop*cough* by pgi's office with a lot of spray paint,duck take,cardboard and I'm going to add those Catapult vcr's to all of the windows on the building along with all the car windows in the vip parking section.

We don't need another two year long thread one hundred plus pages thread to re-fix the Catapults.

[Mark Nicholson]

JediPanther, on 14 May 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

If the "new" weapons for missiles bring back those damed *** vcr's on the Catapults I will be making a *cough* vacation stop*cough* by pgi's office with a lot of spray paint,duck take,cardboard and I'm going to add those Catapult vcr's to all of the windows on the building along with all the car windows in the vip parking section.

We don't need another two year long thread one hundred plus pages thread to re-fix the Catapults.

On the one hand, no one liked those VCRs, me included. On the other hand, free office building remodel?

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Can you?

Yeah, Victor is probably the best example of it.

You can have 3 SRM6s, and one will fire all six missiles, one will fire four missiles and then two missiles, and the third will launch three waves of two missiles (IIRC).

Edited by vnlk65n, 14 May 2017 - 12:32 PM.

[JediPanther]

Mark Nicholson, on 14 May 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

On the one hand, no one liked those VCRs, me included. On the other hand, free office building remodel?

That would certainty be better than my current job. Having only a parking lot surrounded by a sugar factory and farm fields gets pretty dull until sun down when I have some thing colorful to look at. We might gripe a lot but we really do care about the looks and functions of mechs. I have a limited amount of experience with 3d modeling from my college days for media arts and animation so I know there is a lot of things to consider when making an asset and have it work as well.

Shout out to the rest of the art team on texturing, animation etc. That isn't exactly easy work under deadline.

[Valhallan]

But But.... i actually want to use a MRM40 on the 2 tube locked slot of the victor as is...... .

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 14 May 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Can you?
Anyway,doing it "sized hardpoints" would be stupid. Hardpoints would be limited by esoteric and arbitrary methods would only shift the meta to mechs that have the requisite hardpoints. Zero balance achieved, the explicit consideration PGI has for balance disregarded, and builds currently in mechbays would have to be dismantled, creating a "100 clicks" situation where every mech has to be entirely rebuilt.

Not to mention that the game already has sized hardpoints, when considering that the SLOTS MECHANIC already limits weapons placement for Arms, Head, CT harpoints, Mr. "Should Battlemechs should be able to remove their hand actuator?"

Sized hardpoints: #1 worst idea.

Your counter-argument was filled with such non-sense and inaccuracy, it is clear to me that I should not even bother explaining it any further.