39 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Faction war is tough, we got defense on Boreal so we hide in the builds and slaughter them as they try to push the generators.


Next time same situation and we try to hold the buildings but people are complaining and asking us to push. We lose by 9 mechs, 9 that pushed and threw away the win.


Then we get another game defense and we win again.




The pugs are the most frustrating part, we're only dropping in a 4 man.



Sniper clan mechs are all over these games and you can't do anything but wait until they converge on you because you'll lose half your mech to PPC/Gauss in one peek.

Edited by Xetelian, 08 May 2017 - 06:50 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Why would anyone push while defending?

What's with so many people in MWO saying to push all the time anyway? Cover is pretty useful and trading is better than running into a firing line.

[Mystere]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why would anyone push while defending?

To drive the enemy back to their spawn site, of course.

[Xetelian]

Mystere, on 08 May 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

To drive the enemy back to their spawn site, of course.

Sure, that's the idea but the actuality is that we lose 1/4th of our team coming out for cover due to PPC/Gauss NTGs and WHK and cERLL EBJ and TBR.



The only reason we've won 2 games out of the last 3 was because we didn't let them strip us at range, which is really all the IS can do when facing an all sniper team.


Constantly arguing with people who want to leave cover is bad for the team in a lot of ways.

Edited by Xetelian, 08 May 2017 - 07:01 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why would anyone push while defending?

What's with so many people in MWO saying to push all the time anyway? Cover is pretty useful and trading is better than running into a firing line.

I can't speak for CW as I don't play it, but pushing in solo PUGs as a deathball is king. The team that does it wins more often than not. The team that cowers behind rocks or in a valley and waits... loses.

However, the push must be done right. It requires:

a. The assaults to be with the main group.
b. When the assaults start their push, they can never turn around. They are committed 100% and can't stop. The rest of the team needs to back them up.
c. Everyone goes at once, and someone should call targets.

The pushing team will lose a few robits. But the enemy team may likely lose all of theirs.

Defense is a losing strategy in the solo PUG queue. So is "flanking" with an assault lance.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 08 May 2017 - 07:01 AM.

[Lily from animove]

The issue is, if you are defender you need to fight with enough buffer range to the gens, otherwise you can get you gens screwed up in just 2 waves or one easily. Pure camping at the gens only works if the attacker signore gens and want to come for skirmishing.

But every of the tactics needs to avoid open areas or you are sniper food. of course. And his is what many pugs seem not beeing able to handle. How often i see green lightpointers at 100m range, WHY?

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 May 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mister Blastman, on 08 May 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

I can't speak for CW as I don't play it, but pushing in solo PUGs as a deathball is king.

As I said, defending, as in CW invasion defending in which PUG rules don't apply and rushing out towards the enemy spawn zones requires you to just walk through a 1-2km long no man's land against enemies trained to obliterate pushes after all the gen rush countering. Not to mention once you actually get to the destination you're just at their spawn zone so you get shot to pieces by some dropships.

Besides that even if you do go and move all of your team over to the enemy base they can just avoid your short range brawl push and walk right on into you now undefended base for an easy win.

There's no reason to go and push out if you are the defenders unless you are overconfident and dominating your enemy so hard that you'd just like to speed it up a bit by cutting out their walk.


You're comparing a sprint to a marathon here.

[Mister Blastman]

I can see how defending on a CW map that has a true defensive position as advantagenous. In fact, it is one reason why I hated CW--the DOTA style forced chokepoints and lanes. It was boring as hell.

[Bud Crue]

Herding cats. Pugs don't listen. Team work is OP. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Give it up guys.

The casuals who are playing CW for this event are not really interested in team work, learning the intricacies of each map and mode, understanding what mechs and builds are suitable for use or even "gitting gud". Nope. They are here for the rewards; nothing more. If they win, great. If they lose, great. They want their participation MC and C-bills and they don't care about your little "team" or your "strategy for winning". CW for the length of this event is not the "hard mode", team driven game you dedicated players of it know and love. It is rather, for the duration of this event simply a place to get paid for playing. Accept that, form a 12-man, and get it over with as quickly as possible for all our sakes.

[Xetelian]

In clan war you can successfully defend, they HAVE to kill the generators and cannon, we just let the clock run down and hold a position in behind cover as close to the generators as possible and shift which way they come from.


Clan mechs have range advantage, trading with them is not a good strategy unless your entire team is setup to snipe and with PUG drops we don't know what people are bringing to coordinate anything like that.







I played faction war with CWI for a couple months but never joined their unit, most units make you do some kind of entrance exam/fight and I just don't want to bother with that, last time I checked I don't own a 'legal' load-out to even begin a trial and don't really care to set one up.



I got rank 8 for wolf, only two more ranks for another mechbay but I just don't think I'll be dropping clan war after Tuk, I just don't feel like rolling up against competitive teams when all the PUGs are gone.

[invernomuto]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why would anyone push while defending?

What's with so many people in MWO saying to push all the time anyway? Cover is pretty useful and trading is better than running into a firing line.

expecially when as IS you are losing trades at 400-600 meters against superior clan firepower...

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

CHARGE! (Only good answer for such weak, atrocious and cowardly behavior. Some people defended here.)

[Coolant]

Xetelian, on 08 May 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

Sniper clan mechs are all over these games and you can't do anything but wait until they converge on you because you'll lose half your mech to PPC/Gauss in one peek.

You would think they would have more guts and get closer, do the honorable thing.

Edited by Coolant, 08 May 2017 - 07:48 AM.

[Xetelian]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 08 May 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

CHARGE! (Only good answer for such weak, atrocious and cowardly behavior. Some people defended here.)

Says the guy riding Clan Smoke Jaguar nutz for easy wins.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Xetelian, on 08 May 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Says the guy riding Clan Smoke Jaguar nutz for easy wins.

I have 2 Accounts ... but yeah, do and believe what you think is the best for you.

[Bud Crue]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 08 May 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

I have 2 Accounts ... but yeah, do and believe what you think is the best for you.

Hell no.

If we all did what was best we would all be in the same meta mechs, playing as mercs and probably all in the same faction that has the best rewards. Thank heaven for those who continue playing with a bit of a self defeating tendency and playing the crap so as to keep the game diverse, not to mention viable for everyone.

[Xetelian]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 08 May 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

I have 2 Accounts ... but yeah, do and believe what you think is the best for you.

Two accounts? Are you even playing the IS account in this event? We could use the help scouting.



I wish I had separate accounts for my clan and IS mechs but alas I didn't have the foresight.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Of course! I always try to do events on both.
(On a sidenote the battlemaster 2c(5lpl) is the mech i achieved my alltime high damagescore while only using one mech and the qkd-4g(3lpl) is my favourite mech ... so i am not biased against IS (ateast not against the tech)).

My point is that aggression and forcing pressure on the enemy wins games. Hiding in buildings does not.
And to be aggressive you need to be mobile (in most cases) and this is one of the main points while the IS is struggling. (Passive playstyle, bad builds, unwillingness to adapt, xl-engines (minor, well played/builded is mechs can twist until he is down to 30% even with one) and bad attitude about grouping up/joining units are the others)

[Templar Dane]

If you sit in the buildings and they do a gen rush, they are gonna get the gens. It's much better to fight them when they enter the gate, then the dudes who die can defend the gens in their next mech against damaged opponents.

Usually the dudes that are saying you should park at omega are the same ones asking you to hold locks and launch uavs.....

[Tyler Valentine]

Dakota1000, on 08 May 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why would anyone push while defending?

Gen health is low and you cant risk a dedicated gen/omega rush.