67 replies to this topic

[Kroete]

Dakota1000, on 10 May 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

This is the Faction Wars forum, basically everyone here commonly has actually been that small part of MWO's community who has been playing FW.....

An Event for us is just a fresh potato crop to farm.

Says a lot about cw and the groups ...

They need to change it or stop wasting money and time for that small part of the mwo community.


Edit:
Was in a match a few minutes ago,
the 4 man we had wanted to farm the enemy instead of killing omega (only 75% left after the fist wave),
they said "lol" after asking for sportsmanship and they dont wanted to end it fast to get a better, more challenging match (i was in the winning team, it was boring, i dont even fired a single shot in the second wave at the enemy because of that.), they just wanted to farm and spawncamp.

This is a perfect example of the current cw situation for the majority of the mwo players.

Edited by Kroete, 10 May 2017 - 06:16 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I am going to guess that the OP didn't see this result coming...lol

Most of us who play regularly see that FW has flaws....we might squabble over the severity of those flaws, but at the end of the day we still enjoy the challenge of this mode.....which is yes, less friendly and a cold-dose of reality (by design...remember that initial warning kids?...well...here be dragons) to newer players and folks who want to solo.

[Bud Crue]

Kroete, on 10 May 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Says a lot about cw ...

They need to change it or stop wasting money and time for that small part of the mwo community.

- They need to go back to phase 2 and start from there.
- Then (because they refuse to make thematically linked maps and modes into a campaign like sequence) they need to just give a nice mix of other modes to add a little variety to the normal mode of siege. Maybe 25% non-siege for flavor but no more basing the occurrence of a mode on the current state of the tug of war.
- Then they need to modify the reward system so that the consistent losing factions get better rewards...not merc rewards only...but loyalists as well. They need to encourage others to play the mode rather than just the elite. Trying to make it "hard mode" limits the population and discourages play. Focus instead on -dare I say "community mode". Give pugs a reason/motivation to WANT to play and then incentivize better play.
- Then they need to spend sometime working on balance and maps so that more mechs and builds on both sides of the tech are viable to bring into play if not outright competitive therein.
- Then they need to work on making the consequences of taking a dot...I mean planet...more dramatic. Then they need to add bells and whistles (faction specific content, etc) to give the whole things some semblance of an immersive experiecnce.

That's what they ought to do and in that order to make this mode more user friendly, to increase the population playing it, and to make it just more fun all around. Or they could just nerf a bunch mechs and call it good; there is always that option I guess.

Edited by Bud Crue, 10 May 2017 - 06:29 AM.

[Ziogualty]

Cannot answer your poll...
I still have huge issues talking about "FW" as it is just one thing.

I had ton of fun with scouting (lately i play less cause my 4 men is now scattered between 3 units) and still i cannot have even half the fun in Invasion.

For me those are 2 completely different worlds: Scouting is just 4 men, is restricted to lights and mediums, you play same maps of QP, and you alone are 25% of the team. Teamplay, sudden coordination and trusting your lance are key components to success and fun. Not counting that coordination between you and 3 other pilots is far more easy and intuitive. Last, choosing a mech of choice between lights and medium is easier than assembling 4 mech drop, and buying 1 radar derp and one Griffin, or Cent, or Shadowhawk, or Bushie is quite affordable compared of 265 tons of fully equipped mechs if you want to start doing scouting.

On the other hand, i never had the chance to play Invasion on regular basis, so i barely know the maps. To coordinate 12 pilots is a whole different thing, and i never had the privilege to try invasion with 12 pilots of the same unit. More, all kind of mechs are allowed, and with the respawn i feel is far more easier to lose focus during 30 mins of gameplay.

So i love to play scouting (i'm pretty happy with my stats as loyalist steiner pilot) and i'm not really interested in invasion atm (and i'm pretty sure there are pilots who love invasion and despise scouting).
Considering this, i really don't know how to answer this poll...

Edited by Attank, 10 May 2017 - 06:54 AM.

[sub2000]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 10 May 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

You think that would solve all the problems, but it would just mean sharks like Ash would drop into the solo bracket from time to time and 6k damage farm you. FW doesn't need a solo queue "safe space"

only these sharks when dropped solo don't farm 6k. they end with same 2k as in the group... and loose.

[Teslar Kain]

I'll only be playing FW when there is an event going on so that the chances of meeting a unit are diminished. Fighting ANY unit has never been fun (in my experience). Ever.

I have had a handful of the most enjoyable matches in recent memory just BECAUSE of the fact that there are more skittles and M&Ms around, resulting in messy, chaotic, nail-bitingly FUN matches where pure luck and a little bit of skill helped one team or the other edge out a victory. And yes, each match was down to the wire.

I'm sure there's enjoyment to be had when two organized teams go head to head, but for my money (time) nothing beats two loosely organized team beating each other to a pulp.

If I may make a comparison to MMA for a moment... If anyone remembers the match between Forest and Griffin (from the ultimate fighter show on... Spike TV?), that was extremely enjoyable because both fighters were green, yet had the grit and determination to see it through to the end. It was messy, uncoordinated, and glorious BECAUSE both fighters were not at the top of their game. It had ups and downs; almost a narrative structure to it. And so, matches between unitless groups in FP usually goes the same way.

[justcallme A S H]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

only these sharks when dropped solo don't farm 6k. they end with same 2k as in the group... and loose.

*yawn*. More factually untrue statements. What is with you T5 users and doing that all the damn time?
This is what happens when I drop solo even with a TEAM on the other side.






If the game was perma solo, it would be nothing short of a joke. I've done high dmg games than that as well btw dropping solo. That's just the easiest screenshot to find.

Vxh is 100% correct. Any decent player will ROLL the rubbish that is FP in some pure PUG/solo drops because the majority have no idea how to play. It's no different to QP. The amount of games I have above 700dmg is ridiculous, most can't crack 200dmg.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 May 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[sub2000]

Kroete, on 10 May 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Says a lot about cw and the groups ...

They need to change it or stop wasting money and time for that small part of the mwo community.


Edit:
Was in a match a few minutes ago,
the 4 man we had wanted to farm the enemy instead of killing omega (only 75% left after the fist wave),
they said "lol" after asking for sportsmanship and they dont wanted to end it fast to get a better, more challenging match (i was in the winning team, it was boring, i dont even fired a single shot in the second wave at the enemy because of that.), they just wanted to farm and spawncamp.

This is a perfect example of the current cw situation for the majority of the mwo players.

that is why there should be open lobby system when you can chose your playmates and opponents. 30 min is valuable time for me, I don't want to waste on jerks.

[Yumoshiri]

FP is more difficult than QP. It's in my opinion, not a nice place for new people.

1. you get mixed with tier 1 peeps
2. if your team is full of pugs, there is a big chance there will not be any coordination
3. no coordination: you will realize in 5 minutes that you will lose, although it might take another 20 minutes before the game actually ends, without any pleasant fights at all

Basically because the games last much longer, i think the impact is bigger, and because of that, people are less patient with new people.

i'd recommend new players (new to fp) to only drop in FP with someone they know and who is accustomed to fp, so that they get and share the basics. also, while not mandatory, getting average damage of greater than 250 (in quick play) would be a good thing.

personally, i didn't even know faction play existed and it seemed like a big fuss to me. my unit leader at that time taught us the basics and since then we had been doing occasional drops.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

that is why there should be open lobby system when you can chose your playmates and opponents. 30 min is valuable time for me, I don't want to waste on jerks.

How is faction play, a game mode in which teams fight over control of planets for MC, ever going to work in a lobby system where you can choose allies and opponents to rig matches so that you can win constantly and circumvent fighting people who actually went and got good so that they could take those bonuses by force.

Just go right on back to quick play in which there is a lobby option available if you can get together 2 teams of 12 and invite them all. That or 2 people have premium time and you can do anything from 1v1 to 12v12 instead of just 12v12.

Like, you're asking for something already in game but want to change a different gamemode radically to make it the same instead of just playing what is there.

[DarklightCA]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

that is why there should be open lobby system when you can chose your playmates and opponents. 30 min is valuable time for me, I don't want to waste on jerks.

You can choose your playmates, it's called forming a group and in a gamemode like Faction Play that rewards grouping up and highly benefits it, it's not such a bad concept.

Edited by DarklightCA, 10 May 2017 - 10:00 AM.

[Zzan]

Kroete, on 10 May 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Was in a match a few minutes ago,
the 4 man we had wanted to farm the enemy instead of killing omega (only 75% left after the fist wave),
they said "lol" after asking for sportsmanship and they dont wanted to end it fast to get a better, more challenging match (i was in the winning team, it was boring, i dont even fired a single shot in the second wave at the enemy because of that.), they just wanted to farm and spawncamp.

This is a perfect example of the current cw situation for the majority of the mwo players.

I was in a drop a last night or the night before (they are all running together) same situation. I started firing on Omega once we destroyed their second wave and teammates started shooting me because it would end the match sooner and they wouldn't get as many c-bills for destroyed components.

Maybe there should be a bonus for how much time it takes to complete the objective.

[Kubernetes]

I like FW because it offers the greatest potential for real teamplay short of comp. But unlike comp you can play FW every day. Group QP sucks because (1) no foreknowledge of the map means your builds are often suboptimal, and (2) a single wave means your tactical/strategic flexibility and options are far more limited.

The best games I've ever had in MWO have been close FW matches pitting 12-mans vs 12-mans. You see some fantastic back-and-forths, ambushes, counter-punches, etc. I love it.

[C E Dwyer]

Stikyard, on 09 May 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Teams vs. Pug is just bad. I don't understand how it can be enjoyable for either side. What do you think?

Surely the answer lines within your statement

[Zzan]

Bud Crue, on 10 May 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

All I know is that if these results are presumed valid and representative of the greater community, then a hell of a lot of you are lying. If y'all are going to keep playing even without events, why haven't you been playing before the event?

I am new to the game. I didn't play FW prior to the event because I didn't think I was ready, I am still learning the game. Since I have been playing this event it doesn't seem too bad. Yeah, I suck sometimes, but I get a little better each drop. Dropping against organized teams usually results in a humiliating defeat, but once in a while it seems that even though they are all in the same unit they are either not communicating or not working together, or just plain underestimating us. In those sutuations us PUGs can still pull off a win against them since they come at us piecemeal so we can leisurely take them down one at a time instead of overwhelming us.

Now that my feet are wet so to speak I will be in FW more as time allows. QP is nice for the quick matches but when I have time I much prefer the dynamic of a full drop deck and the strategies that open up with having multiple mechs that you can choose which one to drop in at which time.

Edited by Zzan, 10 May 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[PeeWrinkle]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

that is why there should be open lobby system when you can chose your playmates and opponents. 30 min is valuable time for me, I don't want to waste on jerks.

I believe this exists. Just hop on a team speak channel and start chatting it up. Or go through the unit recruitment forum and find a unit and/or their team speak channel and hang out/join and see if you like them.

There are some jerks in this game, as there are in all games, but to be honest I have met very few. And usually when I perceive someone is being a jerk, it is usually because they (and the entire group) is frustrated with a rogue player who has no clue what they are doing and for some reason the player won't even follow or listen to the group.

Then when you realize that person is in an LRM Atlas or something of that ilk in FP, or even worse a build that makes no sense, you are upset at yourself for even attempting to help the person.

Not saying you are one of those, but make sure you don't assume someone a jerk if they are dealing with a player like in my above example.

[Stikyard]

Thanks for alll the feedback. I can see the community quite split here and it's no big surprise. I think a solo que would solve a lot of issues and help new players ease into FW and enjoy competitive games. It almost seems like the experienced groups enjoy skittle smashing though and don't want that to change, just my opinion. The gap between organized play and solo pugs is huge if you guys truely enjoy the current matchmaking then you probably just enjoy bashing newbs. Good luck retaining a new player base under these circumstances.

[DarklightCA]

Stikyard, on 10 May 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Thanks for alll the feedback. I can see the community quite split here and it's no big surprise. I think a solo que would solve a lot of issues and help new players ease into FW and enjoy competitive games. It almost seems like the experienced groups enjoy skittle smashing though and don't want that to change, just my opinion. The gap between organized play and solo pugs is huge if you guys truely enjoy the current matchmaking then you probably just enjoy bashing newbs. Good luck retaining a new player base under these circumstances.

No the experienced groups would rather be facing experienced groups. Skittle smashing is no fun for anybody involved but they are a chunk of population that is required to find games because splitting the population of a already small populated gamemode turns out to be quite stupid if you are in a habit of actually finding games.

A split queue was already done before and while it wasn't perfect in what people wanted, the effect was still the same. If you wanted to solo queue you could solo queue with other solo players. In the end both queue's struggled to find games and the people in the solo queue ended up forming one man units just to get into the group queue.

For the record Faction Play HAS NO MATCHMAKER. Nobody decides who they get matched up against and the gamemode heavily FAVORS group play, especially considering if you want to complete the only objective this gamemode has you have to belong and work with a group of players in a unit. THIS ISN'T DESIGNED FOR SOLO OR NEW PLAYERS.

Solo players bitching about groups in Faction Play is like humans swimming in the ocean and getting bitten by a shark and asking why sharks should even be allowed in the ocean.

Edited by DarklightCA, 10 May 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Guarditan]

Good poll in general; esspecially due to the event.

You could have added some questions like:

"Do you play FW as single queue or with a team"
and
"Do you play IS or Clan"

Would have been quite interessting because i think siege is much more enjoyable if you have a well coordinated team.

[sub2000]

PeeWrinkle, on 10 May 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

I believe this exists. Just hop on a team speak channel and start chatting it up. Or go through the unit recruitment forum and find a unit and/or their team speak channel and hang out/join and see if you like them.

There are some jerks in this game, as there are in all games, but to be honest I have met very few. And usually when I perceive someone is being a jerk, it is usually because they (and the entire group) is frustrated with a rogue player who has no clue what they are doing and for some reason the player won't even follow or listen to the group.

Then when you realize that person is in an LRM Atlas or something of that ilk in FP, or even worse a build that makes no sense, you are upset at yourself for even attempting to help the person.

Not saying you are one of those, but make sure you don't assume someone a jerk if they are dealing with a player like in my above example.

There is such thing called time. Last time I've spent arranging parties, game series etc. was with the game called Unreal Tournament. It was made by infinitely better designers, fantastic programmers and was full of great original content. They were first in very many ways.
Who remember this game now? It was killed exactly by the request of competitive "old guard" to mix population (because they didn't want to wait for their "breed" to come online).

LRM atlas is upsetting in QP no less than in FW. But it is a quick play and with LRM atlas (which is still better than ubiquitous DC direwolf) QP ends very very quickly. There is no such luxury in FW, especially considering empty population (why it is empty again?) and corresponding waiting times. But he is still a player. You can actually can help him, reminding about min max distance, walls, or most importantly that LRM is no fire and forget weapon. You actually have to stare at your enemy all these 3-4 seconds.
There is no big deal to make open lobby from programming or population queueing POV, 30min is sufficiently big time to invest another 10 looking for appropriate players and choose corresponding opponent. I don't want to play with or against NU2, KCOM and some players not because "they are that good" but because they are jerks.
Like "the greeting" from KCOM to the group I happened to drop with: "Who TF "The tug of the group". Which hole did come from?". I don't want to have anything common with such people.
I don't care what somebody else find acceptable or not in interweb. I don't want to play with such people.
As an opposite example: we got devastated by 21JM (MJ12?) in a normal sportive way twice. I have no complains, Actually I've learned quite a bit about positioning and heat control.
In any case mine 20 games are done, the rest I can easily make by scouting. Meantime I've got 3 rank in mercenary , I don't see any possible reason to continue that "carrier"either. FW in it's current form sucks.

Edited by sub2000, 10 May 2017 - 09:39 AM.