67 replies to this topic

[Stikyard]

DarklightCA, on 10 May 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

No the experienced groups would rather be facing experienced groups. Skittle smashing is no fun for anybody involved but they are a chunk of population that is required to find games because splitting the population of a already small populated gamemode turns out to be quite stupid if you are in a habit of actually finding games.

A split queue was already done before and while it wasn't perfect in what people wanted, the effect was still the same. If you wanted to solo queue you could solo queue with other solo players. In the end both queue's struggled to find games and the people in the solo queue ended up forming one man units just to get into the group queue.

For the record Faction Play HAS NO MATCHMAKER. Nobody decides who they get matched up against and the gamemode heavily FAVORS group play, especially considering if you want to complete the only objective this gamemode has you have to belong and work with a group of players in a unit. THIS ISN'T DESIGNED FOR SOLO OR NEW PLAYERS.

Solo players bitching about groups in Faction Play is like humans swimming in the ocean and getting bitten by a shark and asking why sharks should even be allowed in the ocean.

So perhaps the opposite from solo dropping, require to be grouped with at least another person? I still don't think it would help grow a player base though.

[sub2000]

Guarditan, on 10 May 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

Good poll in general; esspecially due to the event.

You could have added some questions like:

"Do you play FW as single queue or with a team"
and
"Do you play IS or Clan"

Would have been quite interessting because i think siege is much more enjoyable if you have a well coordinated team.

it is amazing with a good drop caller who knows where to hide and bothers to explain importance of waiting...

[DarklightCA]

Stikyard, on 10 May 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

So perhaps the opposite from solo dropping, require to be grouped with at least another person? I still don't think it would help grow a player base though.

Solo players would have a much better experience by dropping with other players. They don't even have to belong to a unit, just playing with friends or getting on a faction hub would have the same effect because in a game where teamwork is heavily needed. Having a group of players on comms willing to coordinate is by no means a small advantage.

As for growing a player base, the only way to do that is getting new blood and by no means should new players ever be allowed to enter faction play. The only way to grow that player base is by forcing them into tier 5-4 quick play until they grind enough cbills to fill a optimized deck and learn enough game mechanics before they start getting their faces rolled by organized groups.

Edited by DarklightCA, 10 May 2017 - 10:04 AM.

[sub2000]

justcallme A S H, on 10 May 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

Vxh is 100% correct. Any decent player will ROLL the rubbish that is FP in some pure PUG/solo drops because the majority have no idea how to play. It's no different to QP. The amount of games I have above 700dmg is ridiculous, most can't crack 200dmg.

So according to you TGDB are ordinary pugs. Interesting, I play this game since January but just by looking at your screenshot I wouldn't say that, just like I don't see how 17 most damage done denied enemy team to play their game. They farmed your team quite hard.
It's just you 3 happen to be better than them 7. "**** happens". This time.
I've seen somebody with a tag from your group and doing his 1k, I've seen quite a few "nobodies" doing their 1.5-2.5k with trial mechs killing 6-11mechs, and us still loosing the game.
But the game I will remember is the game with the lance of 228 against some big group which we won, because we motivated them ("we play with 228" ) and they motivated us. But it was one game of 20.

[Leggin Ho]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

only these sharks when dropped solo don't farm 6k. they end with same 2k as in the group... and loose.

Ash did you read this.....LMFAO

If they farm 2 k in a group most of that group is doing 2k when your talking about a team that knows how to play so playing with PUG armor will let him farm loads more damage in the drop, but it was a nice thought I guess.

[sub2000]

DarklightCA, on 10 May 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

No the experienced groups would rather be facing experienced groups. Skittle smashing is no fun for anybody involved

This is BS.
Right from this thread:
https://mwomercs.com...98#entry5730898

"I like it.
Sometimes we play hard against the teams, sometimes against the relaxing pugs (balance!).
And I don't want to play against good teams for 10 hours in a row. I need some skittles to rest.
So it's enjoyable.".
Liked by all experienced players. You won't find there anybody who is still on the learning curve.

This is not the first game crippled by bad player base balance and not the last one.
Anyway, doing forum searching I've found that this topic belongs to the "dead horse" section. I am done with the forum.

Edited by sub2000, 10 May 2017 - 10:19 AM.

[nehebkau]

I'll just drop my 2 cents. FW is a ton of fun when you get two teams together who know what they are doing and are both working hard to secure the win. It's not fun when you are in a pug getting stomped or stomping a pug you've been matched against.

[Leggin Ho]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

There is such thing called time. Last time I've spent arranging parties, game series etc. was with the game called Unreal Tournament. It was made by infinitely better designers, fantastic programmers and was full of great original content. They were first in very many ways.
Who remember this game now? It was killed exactly by the request of competitive "old guard" to mix population (because they didn't want to wait for their "breed" to come online).

LRM atlas is upsetting in QP no less than in FW. But it is a quick play and with LRM atlas (which is still better than ubiquitous DC direwolf) QP ends very very quickly. There is no such luxury in FW, especially considering empty population (why it is empty again?) and corresponding waiting times. But he is still a player. You can actually can help him, reminding about min max distance, walls, or most importantly that LRM is no fire and forget weapon. You actually have to stare at your enemy all these 3-4 seconds.
There is no big deal to make open lobby from programming or population queueing POV, 30min is sufficiently big time to invest another 10 looking for appropriate players and choose corresponding opponent. I don't want to play with or against NU2, KCOM and some players not because "they are that good" but because they are jerks.
Like "the greeting" from KCOM to the group I happened to drop with: "Who TF "The tug of the group". Which hole did come from?". I don't want to have anything common with such people.
I don't care what somebody else find acceptable or not in interweb. I don't want to play with such people.
As an opposite example: we got devastated by 21JM (MJ12?) in a normal sportive way twice. I have no complains, Actually I've learned quite a bit about positioning and heat control.
In any case mine 20 games are done, the rest I can easily make by scouting. Meantime I've got 3 rank in mercenary , I don't see any possible reason to continue that "carrier"either. FW in it's current form sucks.

If you have something showing that a KCOM person was not showing sportsmanship from the get go, not after someone else may have said something (I don't know the case here) please send Pat Kell a msg, I drop with KCOM all the time and Pat does not allow that crap from his guys.

[PeeWrinkle]

The Pug player vs the Group player is a bit of conundrum for me.

On the one had I'd really like to see Pug vs Pug and Group vs Group, not only in FP but also in QP. It has the potential to level the playing field for all players and even make events more competitive. I say potential because it also has the potential to make it worse, especially the effect it could have on queue times.

Here are my reasons why I am not sure that type of match making would work.
1. I am not convinced there are enough players in the game, other than big events, to support two different queues.
2. Many groups, other than possibly the ultra competitive, drop with less than 12 players in the group. It would make it much more difficult to fill a full drop in those cases.
3. Pugs can make there own group easy enough, and elite unit players can pug just as easily to skew this.
4. There are many pug only players who are great at this game. Not all of them are terrible.
5. There are also may units that are just not that good. I wish I could remember the two clan units that I rolled this week while pugging. I was quite shocked.

Having two separate queues also does not address the balance issue. Yes there is a lot of debate about this currently. My thought is that Clan mechs should be superior and I believe they are. Making them equal to inferior technology is a mistake.
But that also means that most elite players or min/maxers are going to gravitate towards those mechs.
So if it is true that the Clan player base is more skillful, you have to ask why that is? Most likely because they can get more from those mechs than they could Inner Sphere equivalents.
That is where tonnage comes into play. IS should have more tons to drop per player. But to be honest that may not fix the problem as I would imagine a lot of players may not properly max out there tonnage.
Then there is the numbers of 12 IS vs 10 Clan. Yes that would be nice, and that would probably do away with the need for quirks and the like. But at the same time would be a significant programming feat. Not to mention the tonnage could still end up being the same.

I have faith that as the timeline moves along that the gap will close. Also I believe PGI, at the very least, keeps this on the agenda for every change they make.

I also don't think the game is as out of balance as this event has made it look. Does anyone know if you can find a list of the mechs each unit used in the 2016 worlds? I can find the places and the rosters, but not the mechs. That combined with metamechs tier list would shed a lot of light on the balance issue. For example if all the top worlds rosters were made up of 75% clan mechs for instance, then you can be reasonably sure that those mechs were chosen because they were superior in some way.

No matter how you slice it the game will almost always have these type of issues. It is based off of a universe that had complete imbalance issues. In the fiction and table top game this was easily overcome by handicapping rules. That is not so easy in a video game.

Just my worthless two cents! LOL

[Commander A9]

Should add another polling question.

* Do you drop as part of a team, or a solo pug?

Edited by Commander A9, 10 May 2017 - 10:55 AM.

[DarklightCA]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

This is BS.
Right from this thread:
https://mwomercs.com...98#entry5730898

"I like it.
Sometimes we play hard against the teams, sometimes against the relaxing pugs (balance!).
And I don't want to play against good teams for 10 hours in a row. I need some skittles to rest.
So it's enjoyable.".
Liked by all experienced players. You won't find there anybody who is still on the learning curve.

This is not the first game crippled by bad player base balance and not the last one.
Anyway, doing forum searching I've found that this topic belongs to the "dead horse" section. I am done with the forum.

One random guy from whatever units hes from of which he doesn't speak for means all units and all players in them also enjoy fighting skittles? Please. I know for a fact my Unit hates fighting skittles, I know for a fact that there are a lot more like minded Units and players in them that also hate fighting skittles.

I use to enjoy playing Faction Play but having to way through all the skittle teams just to find that one Unit group dropping wore me out. When this event is over I'll be back in Quick Play with all the other Unit groups I see playing there and not Faction Play.

If you wanted balance I'd suggest doing the same because even though Quick Plays match maker is not based in skill, it still has a match maker that balances out new players from experienced ones with actual group limitations unlike Faction Play which doesn't have one. *hint* *hint*

[Kubernetes]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

This is BS.
Right from this thread:
https://mwomercs.com...98#entry5730898

"I like it.
Sometimes we play hard against the teams, sometimes against the relaxing pugs (balance!).
And I don't want to play against good teams for 10 hours in a row. I need some skittles to rest.
So it's enjoyable.".

One guy. There's not a person in my unit that enjoys dropping against skittles. We used to try to sync drop against EVIL at every opportunity when they were more active. We're always hoping to face good units that give us good games.

Let me ask you, do you enjoy stomping waves of hapless enemies who provide no challenge? Do you find that fun? What makes you think it's fun for any of us?

Edited by Kubernetes, 10 May 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[Deathlike]

Bud Crue, on 10 May 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

All I know is that if these results are presumed valid and representative of the greater community, then a hell of a lot of you are lying. If y'all are going to keep playing even without events, why haven't you been playing before the event?

I'm just here for the bribes. That's it. There is no hiding that fact.

No bribes = I'm off to group quickplay.

[justcallme A S H]

DarklightCA, on 10 May 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

No the experienced groups would rather be facing experienced groups.

Sometimes. I know of a few units out there that will actively try to avoid fights when they realise a better one is out there and they are being beaten once by said team. The reason is they do not learn from their mistakes as a group/unit.

I used to get slammed by KCom for nearly 5 months straight, 3-4 nights a week. Over over time I learnt/improved. I didn't whinge about it once as I found it a challenge to get up to that level of organisation/team work with the crew I play with - and get to that level we did.

Now we have great fights against them and as a result, other good teams as well. When I see EVIL, KCom, BCMC and other solid teams on the other side, I don't **** my daks and sook. I get the A-Game out and usually it comes down to the last wave, those games are best games. Tactically VERY challenging over 4 waves/25mins. Sometimes more challenging than comp because you can actually recover if there is a mistake/bad judgement call.

[justcallme A S H]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

So according to you TGDB are ordinary pugs. Interesting, I play this game since January but just by looking at your screenshot I wouldn't say that, just like I don't see how 17 most damage done denied enemy team to play their game. They farmed your team quite hard.
It's just you 3 happen to be better than them 7. "**** happens". This time.

You are dead set a large number of marbles short.

The TGDB players, played well. So what?. I tried to half call the drop, gave up 5mins in when it was clear the PUGs were not going to listen. So the 3 of us doubled down and worked hard together (without any comms). Just shooting the same target best we could, sharing armour. Doing what good players do.

17 KMDD
41 Components

If you cannot understand the gravity of just how hard that is to pull off against a organised 7-man on comms, then you will be stuck in T5 forever. The JFGG guys are good players, I did not expect to win in all honesty but that does not mean I lay down and not try my best.

Who cares if they farmed out T5 PUGlords? They still lost by over an entire wave.

I don't care what you think you know from your distinct lack of FP experience. But lemme tell you, make it solo only I will crack 3k more often than I won't.

[justcallme A S H]

Leggin Ho, on 10 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Ash did you read this.....LMFAO

If they farm 2 k in a group most of that group is doing 2k when your talking about a team that knows how to play so playing with PUG armor will let him farm loads more damage in the drop, but it was a nice thought I guess.

lol yeah I know. It's clear someone has not played the mode enough and therefore does not understand it at all.

If in a group we are doing 2k damage - we are playing with our dinner. If you do 2k dmg in a group - you have won, fact. There is just no enough armour/damage to go around to do more and lose.

The avg dmg in when I drop in a group is between 900-1300dmg in a WIN. I can usually pry out a little more just by better positioning/timing and trading effectively as I have that play style down to a reasonable level now.

[Chagatay]

Deathlike, on 10 May 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

I'm just here for the bribes. That's it. There is no hiding that fact.

No bribes = I'm off to group quickplay.

Hard to deny that level of c-bill bribery. Ridiculous levels once you include the piles of supply cache keys.
We all have our price.

[justcallme A S H]

Best rewards for an event in 12 months.

Might as well gobble it up. Especially since I had 70 odd supply caches sitting there doing nothing

[Commander A9]

sub2000, on 10 May 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

I don't want to play with or against NU2, KCOM and some players not because "they are that good" but because they are jerks.
Like "the greeting" from KCOM to the group I happened to drop with: "Who TF "The tug of the group". Which hole did come from?". I don't want to have anything common with such people.

I don't recall seeing any of this...ever...

Perhaps you have screenshots and can report this to Pat Kell so he can speak with those members?

Still, if anyone has been slinging stuff, we're never the ones to start it...but we damn well finish it.

[Marius Romanis]

justcallme A S H, on 10 May 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Best rewards for an event in 12 months. Might as well gobble it up. Especially since I had 70 odd supply caches sitting there doing nothing

I think the 4 mechs rewarded from 1 event last june/july was better rewards.