164 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Lupis Volk, on 12 May 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Well cicada goes faster, has a more tighter hit box (?) and carries waaaaaay more weapons. Also i started with Cicada's, so i know them very, very well.

Ice Ferret with 5 CSPL is no joke, and still goes 139. Meta Cicadas like the 2b go 131 kph with a XL 300 (yes I know they can run faster, but they sacrifice damage to do so). Both Ice Ferret and Cicada 2b do 30 damage alpha.

[Baulven]

El Bandito, on 11 May 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

ECM is very effective vs. non-comp players. In comp play everything in a fight is carried out with precision and they keep tab more accurately on just how much damage has been done to mech sections. And comp teams' eyesights and reflexes are incredible--which renders ECM less useful.

In CW and pug queue, players tend to focus on any mech that has been locked. And seeing how Grasshopper does not have ECM while Hellbringer has one, I bet the Grasshopper in general has much lower lifespan than the Hellbie.



Quirks can help with that. Currently none of the Clan omnimechs are straight up garbage. Unlike some IS battlemechs, or future IS omnis...

The only reason a lot aren't garbage is that they survive ST loss. It's part of the reason I think IS needs dual ST check to make some of the chassis viable.

[El Bandito]

Baulven, on 12 May 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

The only reason a lot aren't garbage is that they survive ST loss. It's part of the reason I think IS needs dual ST check to make some of the chassis viable.

Correct, tech imbalance is real. A fact some Clan apologists refuse to see.

Lupis Volk, on 12 May 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Well cicada goes faster, has a more tighter hit box (?) and carries waaaaaay more weapons. Also i started with Cicada's, so i know them very, very well.

Then you do not know it that well, cause in order for the Cada to carry "waaaaaay more weapons" than IFR, it has to sacrifice speed.

Lupis Volk, on 12 May 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

Thing is all four of those mechs require more than average skill to out perform a good IS player in their counterparts.

They require less skill to out perform some IS mechs of their weight class--Panther-10P, Spider-5V, Vindicators, Phawks, Victors, Highlanders--now those IS mechs are the real garbage.

Clan power bar is higher than IS one. What is considered utter trash in Clan standards, is considered mediocre in IS standards. All thanks to Clan tech.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 May 2017 - 04:14 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

Tiewolf, on 10 May 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

Why are clans op? (compared to IS)
…

Mediocre Trollbait I give you 5 out of 10 Points for this.

If you wanted a serious discussion you would have listed the advantages of the Clans AND the advantages of the IS. In listing only Clan advantages you clearly showed that you wanted to whine or to start a flame war.

[nehebkau]

AlphaEtOmega, on 12 May 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

Mediocre Trollbait I give you 5 out of 10 Points for this.

If you wanted a serious discussion you would have listed the advantages of the Clans AND the advantages of the IS. In listing only Clan advantages you clearly showed that you wanted to whine or to start a flame war.

Well lets fix that... prepare to be overwhelmed!

IS Advantages:

Generally lower heat
Generally lower burn times (include AC's & lrms in this)
Can switch FF on all mechs
Can switch Endo on all mechs
Can switch engines on all mechs.

There done.

Your post was intended to avoid talking about clan advantages, which there are, because you are afraid that PGI would react as they always do and nerf the wrong things and buff the wrong things.

@OP Most of your concerns will be irrelevant when the LFE comes out -- THAT is the biggest issue. Unfortunately, PGI has also decided to introduce a bunch of new weapons at the same time which will prevent PGI from properly balancing the LFE (after getting actual in-game performance data) and cause a whole bunch of noise and other balance issues that will keep things in a state of crap for another year.

Edited by nehebkau, 12 May 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[SmokedJag]

Kiran Yagami, on 11 May 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

No, people don't think that. Omnimechs have always used fixed slots as a balancing factor. That's what people see. Throw in clan battlemechs and that balancing factor is obsolete. You end up with mechs they tried to balance and mechs they never even bothered with.
.

The Clan BattleMechs are rule abusive and shouldn't have been allowed in that state. Modifying the KDK-3 to have quad high ballistic rather than two, for example. Besides high mounts not mattering in TT-type rules and there being no bonus to torso twist above and beyond movement points, wholesale mods of Clan BattleMechs were just inappropriate in an environment where people took lore semi-serious.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 12 May 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Ice Ferret with 5 CSPL is no joke, and still goes 139. Meta Cicadas like the 2b go 131 kph with a XL 300 (yes I know they can run faster, but they sacrifice damage to do so). Both Ice Ferret and Cicada 2b do 30 damage alpha.

Correct, the Ice Ferret is tankier and runs faster, but the Cicada has the better DPS and range (their are more nuances than that but that is the short version of it).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 May 2017 - 07:01 AM.

[skorpionet]

I play only IS, I play only three mechs: AS7-S or SDH-2H or AWS-8Q , I play only quick play matches.

98% of matches I do the top damage or kills or points. I'm happy.

[Wayland]

You clan guys realise that outside of faction play events that faction play will be dead if some sort of balance is not brought between the factions. You are not taking into consideration the absolute frustration I.S. players are feeling. Alot of players have had enough I.S players are leaving, have left or gone clan.

Clan mechs are just better. I stopped playing mine after the last Warhammer structure nerf. Why pilot inferior mechs when all the small incremental advantages with clan tech allow an experienced pilot to compete at a higher level.

I honestly can't see how faction play can survive long term like this.

At least bring in an IS vs IS queue so pilots who enjoy their IS mechs can compete against each other on an equal footing

[nehebkau]

Wayland, on 12 May 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

You clan guys realise that outside of faction play events that faction play will be dead if some sort of balance is not brought between the factions. You are not taking into consideration the absolute frustration I.S. players are feeling. Alot of players have had enough I.S players are leaving, have left or gone clan.
...
I honestly can't see how faction play can survive long term like this.

It is probably 50% of the problem, the other 50% is just really bad game design. Good teams can work around the balance problems -- regular groups and pugs can't. No one, however, can get past the lack of depth, poor siege design, horrible game-roles and other myriad of issues.

Edited by nehebkau, 12 May 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

nehebkau, on 12 May 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

Well lets fix that... prepare to be overwhelmed!

IS Advantages:

Generally lower heat
Generally lower burn times (include AC's & lrms in this)
Can switch FF on all mechs
Can switch Endo on all mechs
Can switch engines on all mechs.

There done.

You forgot some of the biggest advantages

Huge defensive Quirks (Big Armor und Structure Bonuses)
Massive Weapon Quirks (Enormous Duration and Range Bonuses)

If you count together all Clan and all IS advantages you will see that Clans and IS are quite balanced at the moment. They are just different and need to be played different to profit from their advantages.

nehebkau, on 12 May 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

@OP Most of your concerns will be irrelevant when the LFE comes out -- THAT is the biggest issue. Unfortunately, PGI has also decided to introduce a bunch of new weapons at the same time which will prevent PGI from properly balancing the LFE (after getting actual in-game performance data) and cause a whole bunch of noise and other balance issues that will keep things in a state of crap for another year.

Most of these new weapons are IS only. So it is most likely that the IS will profit more from these balance issues than the Clans.

[Kangarad]

so I just changed to innersphere and droped 10 games fo scouting... and the **** the ****... man I hope i still get the clan win of tukayyid becausse 40% merc bonus? not worth droping with tehse potatoes.

1st: 2 mechs go hiding with LURMS in SCOUT.

2nd game: killed 3/4 but artic cheetah just walks into the circle while being shot at and escapes... with us being in the circle too. hurr derp (game at fault)

3rd game More lurm people on my side.,.. and we got absolutely wrecked.

4th: Moving what is that? team never left spawn and did not want to go for any intel at all despite that being mission objective for us... that got us killed ... because they were not good at hitting the enemy either and focus fire is obv. not a thing.

5th game enemy brigns lurms +novas... team spreads and leaves ecm cover and runs away even tho we have to kill the enemy... I subsequentialy died and we lost.

6th game... 1 afk 3v4 brawling also lost...

7th game... team looked nice at first.... turned out it was 3 lurm boats with 1 lbx10 in total as backup weapons. FFFFFF

8th game full 55x4 tonange deck... got outrun by vipers, enemy won with 18 intel points... slow mechs are slow.

9th game... just derp... 2 died to overheating in therma and we subsequentialy lost the brawling...

10th game: MORE LRM's...


I dont know what I expected... then again I was mostly facing griffons bushwackers and centurions that acutaly brawld when I was on the clanside for the other days up to now...


but srsly...

[Templar Dane]

nehebkau, on 12 May 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

Well lets fix that... prepare to be overwhelmed!

IS Advantages:

Generally lower heat
Generally lower burn times (include AC's & lrms in this)
Can switch FF on all mechs
Can switch Endo on all mechs
Can switch engines on all mechs.

There done.

Your post was intended to avoid talking about clan advantages, which there are, because you are afraid that PGI would react as they always do and nerf the wrong things and buff the wrong things.

@OP Most of your concerns will be irrelevant when the LFE comes out -- THAT is the biggest issue. Unfortunately, PGI has also decided to introduce a bunch of new weapons at the same time which will prevent PGI from properly balancing the LFE (after getting actual in-game performance data) and cause a whole bunch of noise and other balance issues that will keep things in a state of crap for another year.

There's also......

Quirks
Generally better geometry

[nehebkau]

Templar Dane, on 12 May 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

There's also......

Quirks
Generally better geometry

were you not around for the great de-quirkening? Most IS mechs have meaningless quirks, and geometry? GEOMETRY? IF THERE IS ANYTHING IN THE GAME THAT IS BALANCED IT IS GEOMETRY! For the love of blake, both sides have mechs with good, average and poor geometry. As an aside, only IS has mechs where the arms are so low you shoot the dirt.

Kangarad, on 12 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

so I just changed to innersphere and droped 10 games fo scouting... and the **** the ****... man I hope i still get the clan win of tukayyid becausse 40% merc bonus? not worth droping with tehse potatoes.

...

I dont know what I expected... then again I was mostly facing griffons bushwackers and centurions that acutaly brawld when I was on the clanside for the other days up to now...


but srsly...

which is why I wrote this in another thread:

nehebkau, on 07 May 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

I could take the occasional bad mech, or the occasional bad pilot or the occasional lack of understanding of basic game mechanics.... but to have them all in every game with a thick topping of "clan mechs are OP" I just can't take any more.

If you take 4 LRM boats into an invasion game -- expect to get your arse handed to you -- its not clans being OP. If you drop in a scouting protect mission in a COM and die with 4 damage -- its not clans being OP. If you stop your AC2 King crab a the opening of the gate to line up the perfect shot and die with 12 enemy alpha you -- its not clans being OP. If you don't talk to each other, call targets and at least try to plan -- its not clans being OP.....


It's you being a horribad mechwarrior. That is the problem. Yes, you are a terrible mechwarrior! You choose crappy builds, have crappy strategy and lack a basic understanding of what to do and what to NOT do and that makes you incapable of contributing to a win in any faction game mode.


So, out of respect for my sanity and blood pressure and to avoid getting banned for the inevitable VOIP rant -- I'll see you guys may 15th.

Edited by nehebkau, 12 May 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Mcgral18]

AlphaEtOmega, on 12 May 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

You forgot some of the biggest advantages

Huge defensive Quirks (Big Armor und Structure Bonuses)
Massive Weapon Quirks (Enormous Duration and Range Bonuses)

If you count together all Clan and all IS advantages you will see that Clans and IS are quite balanced at the moment. They are just different and need to be played different to profit from their advantages.


Most of these new weapons are IS only. So it is most likely that the IS will profit more from these balance issues than the Clans.

lol
Another Clam Apologist

Please, go ahead and tell me which Quirked Spheroid mechs are competitive?
There are a few

And then tell me which other mechs have THOSE quirks?
Not very many


There in lies the issue:
Spheroid mechs REQUIRE quirks because of inferior tech.
That's imbalance, and will never be fixed by quirks alone


Balance equipment, then balance robots (with quirks)
That's the only way to do it.


New weapons will (attempted to) be balanced with current things...which means more garbage.

[TheMisled]

So I thought that I'd just add my 2 cents to this conversation. First off (I don't actuallly know if this has been resolved yet and I might be a little late but oh well), Whoever said that range is not an advantage is an idiot. Range is a massive advantge whether your in the military, playing a shooter game or piloting a multi-tonne battlemech. Being able to hit any enemy way before they can hit you is huge as it doesn't matter if they can do more damage to you in a second if you've already stripped most of thier armour (as has been the case many a time).

Now onto my own personal experience; out of all the games that I've currently played of CW in this event, I've won 2. The first was by the skin of our teeth on defense and with the help of a lot of teamwork against a clearly disorganized enemy who trickled through the gates. the second win was where I had the pleasure of dropping with about 10 EVIL members who took awesomes and battlemasters were able to set up a firing line after the clans didn't come to greet us until we got to the objective. From there is was a clear cut win with a constant barrage of PPC fire.

My losses on the other hand have been playing with PUGs against other PUGs. All of my games bar 1 has had people making calls and trying to organize the team (which for the most part the team has responded well) but even an organized group push didn't work. Our 12 man dropped like flies even when trying to focus the enemy with us only reaching 2 kills. From there they proceeded to push out and continued to beat us. The game ended with us only having been able to achieve around 10-15 kills. Even my PPC Awesome got cored in a single alpha from a Night Gyr at the edge of my PPC range. Absolutely nothing I could have done would have prevented that sort of firepower from f*cking me over.

From personal experience the advantages of clan mechs so heavily outweighs the advantages that there is no reason they shouldn't beat IS with even a half competant team. Scouting is a lot more balanced but invasion is still very one sided and from all the games that I've played, you'd have to be a complete moron to say clans don't have a clear cut advantage.

[Grus]

Ok so of the XL is that bad dont bring it.. simple, adapt and overcome.

Clan mech's are supposed to be superior. Period.

If you wanted "balance" then PGI shouldn't have brought clan into the game. Keep the timeline in the succession wars and let us have at it. Discounts on your house specific mech so on and so on.

PGI has made clan mech's and equipment SLIGHTLY better. Not over powered.

If your having problems I'll pass on the knowledge that was pass on to me by a lot of their 1 and 2 pilots. Change your tactics, and watch the cbills flow.

[Vonbach]

Grus, on 12 May 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Ok so of the XL is that bad dont bring it.. simple, adapt and overcome.

Clan mech's are supposed to be superior. Period.

They did adapt. They adapted and went clan.
Thats what happens when one side has a clear
advantage.

Edited by Vonbach, 12 May 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[Grus]

Vonbach, on 12 May 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

They did adapt. They adapted and went clan.
Thats what happens when one side has a clear
advantage.

We are the Borg, resistance is futile..

[Kaeb Odellas]

Grus, on 12 May 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Ok so of the XL is that bad dont bring it.. simple, adapt and overcome.

So you want us to adapt by allowing the clanners to outgun and outmaneuver us with superior firepower and speed?

Somehow I don't think that's going to work.