40 replies to this topic

[Dread Render]

We have been asking, us brawlers, for full down town City map since day one.
Why don't we have that yet please oh great one?

[Templar Dane]

Dread Render, on 12 May 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

We have been asking, us brawlers, for full down town City map since day one.
Why don't we have that yet please oh great one?

Careful, the lurmers might hear you and decry the idea.

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 12 May 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

It boils down to this:
StarCraft is kind of balanced because you have more numerous Zerg vs. fewer Marines. However, the players control groups of units, so the "numbers vs quality" balance is fair - you get either Numbers of weak units, or quality of fewer units.
However in MWO you do not get "units;" you get A Unit. You cannot say "The inner Sphere would be fine in 10v12 because you get more units on a team" but *I* do not get to play numerous weak units. I get to play just one weak unit. That does not provide the fun balance of "weakness in numbers" because it only provides me, the Mechwarrior, with just "weakness.". I would probably not get a single kill.

On the contrary, playing as just a single Space Marine would give me the opportunity to kill multiple enemies before dying. It does not suffer from the second half of "Better units in fewer numbers" because I, the Mechwarrior, just get one unit - a great one. The numbers side of things do not affect me since I am in my uberunit and have a slew of foes to kill.

What you state might be true -- from the perspective of an individual player. But MWO is supposed to be a team-oriented game, where teamwork is key. Besides I'm not subscribing to a 1:10 ratio or anything ridiculously close to it. And given that [1] teamwork is supposed to be a force multiplier, [2] no two teams are exactly the same, and [3] I have always said that drop formations should be based on battle scenarios (i.e. matched with game modes -- which detractors seem to very conveniently ignore), a 1:1.2 discrepancy (for example) is not exactly insurmountable.

Besides, unless one's provenance is the same as Alexander's or Rommel's, how many people think attacking an entrenched and well-defended position with an equally-sized force is a great idea?

Prosperity Park, on 12 May 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

So, 10v12 is just a way to try and make it so clan players can have more fun at IS players' expense. It is not fair to the entire playerbase. It is not healthy for the game because it will drive players away from the inner sphere. 10v12 is toxic for a PvP game where every player is supposed to have access to the same amount of fun.

I am not even going to dignify that BS with a response.

Edited by Mystere, 12 May 2017 - 10:48 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 12 May 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Besides, unless one's provenance is the same as Alexander's or Rommel's, how many people think attacking an entrenched and well-defended position with an equally-sized force is a great idea?

Good game mode/map design shouldn't allow for entrenched play like you describe. Any game mode/map that forces a team to be active generally stops that from being an issue. This is why skirmish sucks in comp/coordinated play, for PUG play it is acceptable because gettings PUGs to be that coordinated is damn near an impossible task.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 May 2017 - 10:49 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I am going to MWLL to get my fix of Aerotech and Elementals!

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 May 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Good game mode/map design shouldn't allow for entrenched play like you describe. Any game mode/map that forces a team to be active generally stops that from being an issue. This is why skirmish sucks in comp/coordinated play, for PUG play it is acceptable because gettings PUGs to be that coordinated is damn near an impossible task.

I was referring specifically to assaults and sieges.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 12 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

I was referring specifically to assaults and sieges.

Even then, no game mode should be design in such a way that it easily allows a team to do that. This is one of the main failings of Invasion. I have no problem with defend/attack scenarios, just an issue with ones that clearly favor one side (generally defense).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 May 2017 - 10:53 AM.

[sycocys]

Prosperity Park, on 12 May 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

... Until someone finds the hidden profanities someone etched into a nook, and PGI is legally responsible for it...

Why would they give anyone the option to do that in the first place?

All they'd need to put together is a tool to lay out terrain, place structures, apply textures, add drop points and objective areas (or connect objectives to objects).

If they can create something crude enough for snowflakes to cry about with a limited set of tools, then the guys who made Boreal should probably gift them a mech pack for one-upping them.

[Monkey Lover]

Dread Render, on 12 May 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

We have been asking, us brawlers, for full down town City map since day one.
Why don't we have that yet please oh great one?

Lots of time to model a city. I'm not complain​ing but this is why the last few new maps have been open and simple.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 May 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Prosperity Park, on 12 May 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

... Until someone finds the hidden profanities someone etched into a nook, and PGI is legally responsible for it...

And? What's your point? Not like anyone can take non-frivolous legal action against them for something like that, and once discovered its easy to patch something like that out.

[Baulven]

Templar Dane, on 12 May 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Careful, the lurmers might hear you and decry the idea.

Honestly if they added a flight profile angle of attack option they could still work in a close brawl map. High angle (shorter range) but comes nearly straight down, current option, and low angle for reduced flight time and direct punch. These options have existed on modern aircraft for decades, so I don't imagine with things like targeting computers they should be an issue.

[Weeny Machine]

Dread Render, on 12 May 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

We have been asking, us brawlers, for full down town City map since day one.
Why don't we have that yet please oh great one?

1. Lurmgods
2. Meta-snipe-wh0res

Those would cry their little hearts out if they weren't able to sit in the back and lol-alpha

[Juodas Varnas]

I noticed you didn't mention Quadruped mechs.

It's good to have another believer in quadtopia, where all mechs live happily, no matter how many legs they have! As long as it's at least 4.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Mcgral18, on 11 May 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

See isSLs, which are presently isERSLs in all values. Where does that leave the isERSL?

Red medium lasers? :^)

Also, OP, you don't seem to have colorblind support in your list of what not to expect. Pls fix

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 12 May 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[Exilyth]

Prosperity Park, on 11 May 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Community Created Maps.
First person to create a map the size of River City with the same level of detail with all the building structures, street signs, pavement ddetails, landscaping, vehicle placements, etc. that can match PGI's River City will win a prize TBD.

Can we use procedural generation?

I mean, street lights are 'just' one object placed in regular intervalls along a road. A road is 'just' a curve extruded sideways by lane width, extruded again to form a sidewalk. A city is 'just' a bunch of building distibuted along the side of the roads. A forest is 'just' a bunch of trees located near each other.

There are a bunch of nice videos on procedural city generation on youtube:
https://www.youtube....city+generation

A related paper I really like is "Procedural Generation of Parcels in Urban Modeling" (2012) by Vanegas et al
available e.g. at https://www.cs.purdu...l-modeling.html

If only stuff like that came standard with asset creation tools and engines.
At least random heightmap generation is included in most modelling tools.

Oh wait, UE4 does:

[Beavis Porkhammer]

Death from above? possible
Melee attacks? never

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 May 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Even then, no game mode should be design in such a way that it easily allows a team to do that. This is one of the main failings of Invasion. I have no problem with defend/attack scenarios, just an issue with ones that clearly favor one side (generally defense).

Which is why an asymmetric setup should have been used for assaults and sieges. The defenders get the advantage of defensible positions and fortifications. The attackers get the advantage of numbers, tonnage, and/or drops.

Instead we started CW with only 12x12 invasions and counterattacks, and finished with QP with respawns. We also started with pie slices for planetary resolution, then changed to a very one-dimensional system fancily called "tug-of-war". I call that sorry state of affairs a failure of imagination.

I really thought scouting, despite it's symmetrical 4x4 nature, was a break for the better.

Edited by Mystere, 12 May 2017 - 05:54 PM.

[naterist]

I have a problem with op's st quirk assessment. Those engines weigh more, or have a worse death condition. That hp buff makes up for both the drawbacks.

[Skipmagnet]

Prosperity Park, on 11 May 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

-Single Slug UAC/20
Ha.

I desperately hope you're right here, but IS UAC5 is a single slug and they've given no indication that the rest of the IS ultras won't be the same way. If you have different information, please share. If you're working on speculation or theory... that doesn't help.

[Deathlike]

I've set a really low bar for PGI.

What they do is sink much lower than the bar I've set.

PGI never fails to lower the bar further.