39 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Given the gist of most of the posts above, I guess the MWO player base is a lost cause, right?

Well, if that's the case, so much for a "thinking person's" shooter then.

[Johnny Z]

This sounds great, but +2 auxiliary spots like Mech Commander did it is better.

[Ted Wayz]

So I am guessing you were look through old posts and ran across one or more where I suggested this every year for the past 3 years. Amirite?

Because it is almost verbatim.

Great idea but mine extended to have its own skill tree and progression path. Unfortunately I believe this is well beyond PGIs grasp.

[sycocys]

Mystere, on 12 May 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

Well, if that's the case, so much for a "thinking person's" shooter then.

Thinking person shooter ended sometime between closed beta and officially going live.

[Khobai]

Quote

Battlefield tried this.....It went soooooooooooooo well. Peoeple totally didn't ignore the commanders and do what they want because i play for fun or i play how i want to. No not at all.........

well people are never going to listen to commanders as long as game payouts are based on individual accomplishment instead of how the team performs as whole.

thats why things like damage shouldnt be rewarded as much. working well with the other members of your team is primarily what should be rewarded.

if you want a game to be based around a commander leading a team, it really has to be designed that way from the ground up. the fact MWO added it as an afterthought is why it falls short.


but it can be done. the game that's done the whole commander concept the best was a game called allegiance. it was a 25v25 first person space sim where people flew around in ships and one person was a commander who stayed at the HQ and gave orders and played the game like an RTS by ordering players around, collecting resources, building structures, and researching tech. if people didnt follow the commander's orders then he could cut them off from getting money to buy better ships.

Edited by Khobai, 12 May 2017 - 04:41 PM.

[RAM]

razenWing, on 12 May 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

basically, he's Starcrafting Mechcommanding 12 other pilots.

FTFY


RAM
ELH

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 12 May 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Thinking person shooter ended sometime between closed beta and officially going live.

You're definitely correct, of course.

[razenWing]

Ted Wayz, on 12 May 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

So I am guessing you were look through old posts and ran across one or more where I suggested this every year for the past 3 years. Amirite?

Because it is almost verbatim.

Great idea but mine extended to have its own skill tree and progression path. Unfortunately I believe this is well beyond PGIs grasp.

Who are you? Honestly, I consult with nobody on my ideas, But, you are welcome to contribute from the insights that you've gathered from your past idea.

[Skipmagnet]

Mystere, on 12 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

It would be great in Community Warfare. I am not so sure about Quick Play though.

While I am at it, we should really ditch the latter, get a Solaris mode, and configure that along with the Training Academy and Community Warfare to compensate. That cesspit of a "originally meant to be a filler but is now the game" mode is a big impediment to significantly improving the game.

It's the game mode that has a (somewhat) functional matchmaker, and most of the population, and you want to get rid of it?

I already know I'm going to regret asking, but why?

[Anjian]

Khobai, on 12 May 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

well people are never going to listen to commanders as long as game payouts are based on individual accomplishment instead of how the team performs as whole. thats why things like damage shouldnt be rewarded as much. working well with the other members of your team is primarily what should be rewarded. if you want a game to be based around a commander leading a team, it really has to be designed that way from the ground up. the fact MWO added it as an afterthought is why it falls short. but it can be done. the game that's done the whole commander concept the best was a game called allegiance. it was a 25v25 first person space sim where people flew around in ships and one person was a commander who stayed at the HQ and gave orders and played the game like an RTS by ordering players around, collecting resources, building structures, and researching tech. if people didnt follow the commander's orders then he could cut them off from getting money to buy better ships.

I got fond memories of playing Allegiance. Never played the Commander's role though. Fond of being in a stealth fighter or stealth bomber role.

In a time when games only have a multiplayer mode that tends to be all out death matches, Allegiance was paving the way for coordinated team based combat.

[Mystere]

eyeballs, on 13 May 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

It's the game mode that has a (somewhat) functional matchmaker, and most of the population, and you want to get rid of it?

I already know I'm going to regret asking, but why?

First and foremost, it was supposed to be a mere filler. That it is now the "main game" really offends my sensibilities as it reeks of MVP.

Secondly, it's a huge impediment for Clan Formation vs. IS Formation battles that should be the "heart and soul" of the game.

Thirdly, it and its reward system promotes the individual and not the team -- in a team-oriented game.

Edited by Mystere, 13 May 2017 - 03:12 AM.

[- Pestilence -]

Anyone played in Heroes & Generals ? There's no extra player. In H&G every unit (MWO lance) has a commander, players with highest rank (could be MWO tier) can only become commanders, im not sure but if i remember correctly there was some kind of reward for good commanding. Orders are chosen from command wheel not VOIP. You can command or not, free will, but commanders are chosen automatically.

If done more or less like that, why not we can try.

Edited by - Pestilence -, 13 May 2017 - 03:14 AM.

[Anjian]

I have seen a commander's mode on Armored Core Verdict Day. Not very useful if you have a bunch of live teammate mechs. But it comes handy if you are controlling a bunch of unmanned AI mechs.

[Khobai]

commanders really need something "extra" to do

would be cool if each team had a bank of strategic resources that only the team commanders could use

like satillite sweeps, wide area jamming, long tom strike, etc... things like that.

[Dirus Nigh]

If it was like Battlefield 2's commander mode it would be great.

[razenWing]

People are too caught up in whether people will listen. Sure, some won't, but at the same token, some will.

I have witness countless times where people are just wondering off wondering what to do for no raisen. However, it's not to say those are lost cause, because most of the time in my experience, if you call out in comm to give them a direction, you can usually turn them around.

The fact is, unless you are elite uber player that knows all the maps only have few attack points, these are HUGE maps for most people in terms of where to go and what to do. An eye in the sky that can direct overall battle flow and/or the ability spectate any mech to micro manage actions (again, how many people did you run across in death screen that you just want to scream like... TOP LEFT CORNER, THERE HE IS!) is actually super useful.

Personally, I love to boss people around. So, I am super perfect for commander role. As for whether a T5 potato should call the shot... come on... let's be real here. After watching Div A match between Osiris and D5, those are GAMERS, not strategists. It's not like strategy is being called out, even by the elites, at a "I am so good at map analysis, that I can take a real US battalion into battle" type level.

With that said, it's not whether a "best" strat is presented. It's just a coordinated plan that people can follow through. Cause, in majority of cases, a bad plan still beats no plan. (And yea yea, I don't want to hear your one time your 12 pug team beat a team with a strat, whatever. Your one experience is not an overall trend... so save it)

And why not? If you really hate it... again... random odd is only 1/12. And assuming people like me is gong to check "please oh god let me be super commander" box EVERY SINGLE TIME, the chance of someone that really don't want to be a commander is far slimmer than 1/12th. Let's be realistic here, who can even go 12 games in one session to meet that kind of odd? (you know what, I don't want to know. I just know that I can't. Gotta take a break or something)

Also, commander mode is just a fun addition. If the calls are really THAT terrible, it's not like you are obligated to do it. So I say having a T5 player getting the commander spot is no problem... like AT ALL. (in fact, it might help them to see battle progression and spectate battles... might even reduce learning curve to make the game more engaging.)

All and all, I just don't see any downside to this. Oh and the comparison to Battlefield system is not the same. We have a MUCH smaller community with generally older population. So one, we don't have kids that just don't want to listen Two, with small population, your coordination is not awash as much.

(Also, they have infinite respawn, we don't)

There is a lot of technicalities that can be fixed. Commander rating can be based on wins total and w/l ratio. Also, everytime a game is won, the commander will receive commander bonus no less than the top cbill earner of the team. Free CBill for using your brain. How awesome is that?

Edited by razenWing, 13 May 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[ingramli]

Agree, a Command Post (CP) is important for an organised movement of the team. The first thing is, typing when controlling the mech is just not a option in the battlefield. And it is also often that people did not hear the instruction from VOIP. A CP point out when the enemy is, assign the attack/defend route in the battle grid, and coordinate the team is very useful....

If that is to be happen, i guess we need some mechanism that the T3 or above a prerequisite to be chosen a CP, though, no one want a T5/T6 potato instruct them to walk into the foe's fire line and get butchered

[Mister Glitchdragon]

razenWing, on 12 May 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

What you guys think?

Great. Now there's someone in every game who doesn't even have to get killed before they can tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

[Khobai]

MWO should just automatically appoint the most experienced players on the team to command positions by default

[Burke IV]

This should have been in the game. Massive oppurtunity missed imo

If you like commanders have a look at natural selection or "ns2" as it is now.

Edited by Burke IV, 14 May 2017 - 03:03 AM.