74 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

A Clan ER Laser is lighter than an IS ER Laser and has a longer range? Make it deal less damage or have a longer duration and longer cooldown.

um that is the approach they took.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 13 May 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

um that is the approach they took.

Still has higher Dam/tick, as well as damage
Quirks are what change that

[Khalcruth]

So basically,

"We know it's a gigantic glowing neon middle finger to IS mechs, but don't worry, we plan to fix it in a month or two. Maybe more. Ignore the interim period where you're totally hosed, it's ok, because we'll fix it later. Trust us. And don't worry, once we get around to it, we'll totally fix all the IS mechs, not just the upcoming hero ones. We'll get right on that."

Gee, thanks. I'm filled to the brim with confidence.

[Lily from animove]

MadBadger, on 13 May 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

@Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh:
As has been pointed out in dozens of posts for the past 3 weeks or so, your other modules will be refunded as GSP - General Skill Points which can be used to level up any mechs any time.

People who have 'shittons' of modules took a look at the refund ledger when PTS2 was up, and came back saying they had GSP payouts in the 9,000, 12,000, I think I even saw a guy saying he was getting 22,000 or so GSP. Prob more than can ever be used.

If you have pre-Dec.3/16 modules that you don't want converted to GSP, you can sell them back before May 16 for 50% of the purchase price in C-Bills, that seems to be your only "Give me C-bills" option for older modules. Of course, then you have the issue of separating pre-Dec.3 modules from post Dec.3...

wow so the guy who spent money for one module and bought 3 mechs is losing nearly nothing.
the guy who bought 6 modules and only 2 mmechs is losing half the modules value.

this is still neither fir nor making sense, he has then a laod of gsp for emchs he doesn't own. This decision is as potatoe as the people who convinced PGI doing it.

[Marius Romanis]

Its appears to me a lot of you want balance that makes both sides the same .... boring.

I love balance how it currently is for the most part, clan having hotter longer firing time longer range faster moving more fragile mechs with massive heat issues when they lose a ST. With IS having lower heat slower more tanky mechs with good shoulder armor that makes it take a longer time to lose that xl engine.

The problem for me comes when they give clans mechs like the scorch and dont give IS mechs like the hellbringer (ghr no ecm and losing its range quirks) gg pgi.

[Bud Crue]

CadoAzazel, on 13 May 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Its appears to me a lot of you want balance that makes both sides the same .... boring.

I love balance how it currently is for the most part, clan having hotter longer firing time longer range faster moving more fragile mechs with massive heat issues when they lose a ST. With IS having lower heat slower more tanky mechs with good shoulder armor that makes it take a longer time to lose that xl engine.

The problem for me comes when they give clans mechs like the scorch and dont give IS mechs like the hellbringer (ghr no ecm and losing its range quirks) gg pgi.

But for the capabilities of the Kodiak-3, Night Gyr and to a lesser extent the Hunch IIc being exclusive to the clans I think balance was pretty good. The funny part is, is that in the Q&A PGI also says the feel that balance is the best its ever been.

I guess that is why they have decided to throw it all out the window?

I am sure that makes sense to someone.

[The Lighthouse]

Khalcruth, on 13 May 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

So basically,

"We know it's a gigantic glowing neon middle finger to IS mechs, but don't worry, we plan to fix it in a month or two. Maybe more. Ignore the interim period where you're totally hosed, it's ok, because we'll fix it later. Trust us. And don't worry, once we get around to it, we'll totally fix all the IS mechs, not just the upcoming hero ones. We'll get right on that."

Gee, thanks. I'm filled to the brim with confidence.

Yes, this is a pretty good summary, and we all know they are not going to do that, too.

[The Pug Commander]

so from what i have seen they are not taking quirks away...they are just changing them some. .There was a pdf floating around of what they where changing them to.

[FupDup]

The Pug Commander, on 13 May 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

so from what i have seen they are not taking quirks away...they are just changing them some. .There was a pdf floating around of what they where changing them to.

All of the changes in that quirk PDF involve either reduction or wholesale removal of quirks on nearly every mech.

[Monkey Lover]

The Pug Commander, on 13 May 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

so from what i have seen they are not taking quirks away...they are just changing them some. .There was a pdf floating around of what they where changing them to.

They want to "baseline" so any junk mech with a large quirk is getting smashed. Any good mech with a small quirk might get 5% taken.

Of course this might change and I really hope it does because we haven't seen the real live quirk list.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 May 2017 - 03:16 PM.

[Kerrisis]

So I'm still going to have to lose over 300mil selling modules ahead of the patch, as I'm never, EVER going to use 20,000SP. Gotcha.

I'll just go back to not spending any more money on this game until I see whether this is another SW:G "NGE"-esque level of screw-up.

Edited by Kerrisis, 13 May 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Bud Crue, on 13 May 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

But for the capabilities of the Kodiak-3, Night Gyr and to a lesser extent the Hunch IIc being exclusive to the clans I think balance was pretty good. The funny part is, is that in the Q&A PGI also says the feel that balance is the best its ever been.

I guess that is why they have decided to throw it all out the window?

I am sure that makes sense to someone.

For what it's worth, I think balance was much better a year ago, before NTG and MAD-IIcs, and before the last waves of quirk nerfs and the rescale. Then IS really felt like they could stand up to clan tech. BNC-3M, MAL, GHR, WHM, BJ, BL-KNT, BLR were powerhouses. Some might even say IS had the edge. Not entirely convinced about that, but it was really close. Since then we just had too many consistent nerfs to the best IS mechs, while at the same time introducing NTG/MAD-IIc etc.

Still think a lot of the things said in that QA made sense, but saying that quirks failed is a bit too simple imho. It will boil down to that a quirk-like system is the only thing that can give balance at a variant level, it all depends on how you apply and design the quirks. The use of quirks doesn't explicitly mean that you must lock mechs into certain builds... Anyhow, PGI acknowledge the need for tech balance and that's a huge step forward. That will reduce the need for "blanket" quirks like the structure quirks has more or less been, but it won't remove the need to use quirks to balance bad variants and/or geometries.

[MustrumRidcully]

CadoAzazel, on 13 May 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Its appears to me a lot of you want balance that makes both sides the same .... boring.

That isn't true. It's not an FPS / mech simulator, but Star Craft was considered well balanced, and all three sides had distinct play styles.


The canon tonnage and crit stats are pretty much unchangeable since Cryptic is basing its mech on canon models. But beyond that, we have flexibility. For example, all Clan weapons could have a better range than IS weapons (we kinda have that), but together with their smaller size and lower weight, they would have considerably higher heat.
Clan (ER) PPCs and Autocannons might have a slower projectile speed.
Clan Missiles might have no minimum range, but a lower maximum range, or a worse clustering.

Clan Double Sinks are smaller than IS Double Sinks, so maybe in exchange their double heat sinks might leak corrosive chemicals, so their destruction inflicts additional internal damage. Or alternative, Clan Double Heat Sinks add less to heat capacity.

IS Engines are either larger or heavier than Clan engines, so all Standard and IS light or XL Engines could grant the mech additional structure points in the torso region. Or alternatively,Clan XLs have a lower maximum heat cpacity.

This would result in different play styles between the two factions, but could still allow balance.

---

Regarding the removal of Quirks. It seems a relatively straightforward way to address their issues is basically looking at all the weapon quirks of those meta mechs and apply these "quirks" as general rule to the base stats of the quirked IS weapons This would make these weapons viable on any mech, not just the one with the quirks, obviously.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Jamun, on 13 May 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

So from their data T5/4 players without premium time gets ~ 160K C-Bill and 800 XP per match.

Sorry - I call BS.

I'm not getting that and I do have premium time.

I'd love to see their base data.

Agree the person would have to be playing conquest, win and score ok to get this.
Don't forget the 40 k on average you los each match for using a consumable.

This is not a skill tree, it's a percentage tree that leaves you feeling you have nothing distinct about the build.
Half the points a mandatory and defeat the stated purpose. Cookie cutter build will be available in YouTube 2 or 3 days after its live.
The complaining of a few will be many once it goes live. Get ready for th show.

Edited by DrVoodooAUS, 14 May 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

I loved your post until

MustrumRidcully, on 14 May 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Regarding the removal of Quirks. It seems a relatively straightforward way to address their issues is basically looking at all the weapon quirks of those meta mechs and apply these "quirks" as general rule to the base stats of the quirked IS weapons This would make these weapons viable on any mech, not just the one with the quirks, obviously.

You want to give my BLR and BNC 5 LPL mechs the same cooldown as a LCT-1v or SDR-5K ? as much as that would be hilarious fun i would never play clan again....

Edited by CadoAzazel, 14 May 2017 - 05:40 PM.