49 replies to this topic

[Destructicus]

It really is incredible though

It was amazing that PGI saw an issue (lack of customization)

And saw to make the complete wrong decision each time

Thank you PGI

My marriage is going to do better now that my wife will stop seeing Xsolla charges in our bank account

[sneeking]

the only consideration it gets from me is if its a pain to rebuild again then its an uninstall

im tired of having my purchases nerfed and having to rework them and put em on the shelf when they dont come good.

if this is another pain then its gone.

Edited by sneeking, 13 May 2017 - 11:42 PM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I thought of using the tank tree to take in 3 heavy mechs into FW. They can't complete with the IS assaults for durability so I was wondering if that'd help.
But that means you have to make a big sacrifice somewhere.

I feel the Kodiak now must take the agility quirks just to be able to move. It feels like a wooden stick under the PTS environment and even with the buffs felt bad.

Now I dont mind this as long as all assaults suffer this mechanic as it makes...
Lights even more deadly

[R Valentine]

MischiefSC, on 13 May 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

There's going to be a lot of low to lower mid level players trying to justify why their bad skill tree choices are okay and math doesn't work the way it works and everyone in the game who is better than them just doesn't realize the genius of it. Just like there is with LRMs and derp mech builds. The real difference is that derps in derp builds will derp the skill tree now too. Conversely good players who know how math works and understand the difference between winning and losing will see the viability of many builds that are currently played decline and have fewer actually 'good' mechs and build options to choose from. Outreach Oscar the Metahog will pop his head up from his burrow in Pugstompers Knob, see the shadow cast by the Skill Tree and go back in, predicting 6 months of poptarting and long range laservomit.

6 months? MWO has been pop-tarting and long range energy vomit for that long already. I'd wager it'll be that way when the game finally dies(which could be soon giving PGI's track record of utter stupidity). And plenty of people were saying that when the first introduced this monstrosity for a skill tree. At least the old one you couldn't get wrong. Now the new one is so convoluted and complicated that newer players won't know how to work it properly and just get murdered. Also nerfing quirks hard means mechs without skills are exponentially weaker. That'll just wreck the new player experience even more.

[sneeking]

its not just the new player experience, the old player experience is deteriating rapidly

[sneeking]

i dont want to keep buying mech packs just to find reasons to keep playing that makes for a sad business model and makes for uninspired players who can no longer find justification for logging in and dropping.

[MischiefSC]

The skill tree isn't terrible. It's just not changing a whole lot. What o want to to is focus on making the best of it and part of that is trying to get the right mindset on how the game will play under the new skill tree.

Everything you can do to limit people taking derp skill tree stuff and sandbagging their team is a win for the whole community.

[FallingAce]

sneeking, on 13 May 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

the only consideration it gets from me is if its a pain to rebuild again then its an uninstall

im tired of having my purchases nerfed and having to rework them and put em on the shelf when they dont come good.

if this is another pain then its gone.

With the skill tree in May and the energy rebalance in June and the new tech in July, you'd be better of just to take a 2 month break.

Otherwise you'll be rebuilding 3 times.

[Dagada Moor]

Amen to a two month break.

[MischiefSC]

Dagada Moor, on 14 May 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

Amen to a two month break.

I'll need a fortune for LFE and RACs.

Gotta grind.

Roughneck 3A fortunately is a stone cold beast and is better under the skill tree model. Will be farming in it non-stop.

[s0da72]

This might not be the right thread to ask this question. But will they be refunding any GXP used to unlock modules?

[Mystere]

Meh! I still say the best skill tree is no skill tree, and let the player's actual skill come out to shine -- or not.

[MischiefSC]

All gxp is being refunded.

[JC Daxion]

FallingAce, on 14 May 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

With the skill tree in May and the energy rebalance in June and the new tech in July, you'd be better of just to take a 2 month break.

Otherwise you'll be rebuilding 3 times.

So? If i change i change something.. I'd rather just play and see how things go.. Besides give me something to spend GSP on right?


I personally am looking forward to the big balance shake up and a summer of changes.. I recall having a blast a few summers back when they were tweaking LRMS every other week. Was insane but so much fun!

[Lily from animove]

are you sure about the survival tree? when it make sme survive longer for just another alpha of around 60damage thats also 60 damagr.

@mischief, when this is 1-2 more killing shots, does that eman the opponent now hs 24mechs in QP

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 May 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 14 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

are you sure about the survival tree? when it make sme survive longer for just another alpha of around 60damage thats also 60 damagr.

@mischief, when this is 1-2 more killing shots, does that eman the opponent now hs 24mechs in QP

So you have 95 health on the ST of your XL instead of 90.

One time, in one instance, you have 5 more health on that location. It may or may not make any difference.

Every time I move and get in to position first, I twist faster, i have more heat and my weapons recycle faster every single time. If you and I start face to face I'll get my 2nd and 3rd shots off first and I'll have more heat available and with lasers my burn will be shorter, puttinfnmore on target.

Your 5-10 pts of health are not equal to that.

[oldradagast]

Destructicus, on 13 May 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Paul: The Skill Tree is being implemented for numerous reasons, all of which bring MWO forward in terms of 'Mech customization, personalization of how your 'Mech performs, and giving us a few more avenues for increasing depth of play. MechWarrior Online and all other MechWarrior titles have always been about customizing a 'Mech and trying the build that you have created

"We really wanted to encourage customization, so we built a tree that encourages boating"

k

Don't forget the stupid respec cost on skill nodes. Because that clearly also encourages customization...

Skill maze is slop, and PGI has such a horrible track record on balance and addressing serious problems in a timely fashion that very few people have any faith in their ability to clean up this mess. Honestly, if a far more competent developers was releasing the skill maze, I'd be far less worried about it wrecking the game. Then again, a developer that competent wouldn't produce a tangled web of false choices and pro-boating silliness like the skill maze in the first place.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 May 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

MischiefSC, on 13 May 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Except every mech got a mobility nerf from live. Everyone should fill out the Mobility tree save for 2 pts in arm pitch. Anyone who doesn't do that is getting nerfed on mobility twice and is giving up speed tweak and optimal high value mobility tweaks. Any good Night Gyr will have mobility, ops and about 19 pts of firepower.

If you're not maxing all but 2 points on mobility and ops then 16-19 pts in firepower you're doing it wrong in 99% of mechs and builds. What are you neglecting on ops and mobility and to get what?

You put 9 pts in survival and 9 in firepower and I'll put 18 in firepower and we can duel. At which point we can see which is better - 5 pts of armor in your CT and ST is a fair trade for 2x the quirks in range, cooling and cooldown.

Cooldown quirks are not just a few extra damage. They mean that when you and I are shooting 50 or alphas I'll get 1 more before overheat and I'll shoot first both for more damage at range and before you cycle. Which means killing you before you get the last shot off. That 5 pts won't save you anything.

Thanks for this post -- makes sense but I have some questions about "edge cases." Is there a point with low base agility mechs (e.g., Atlas or King Crab) at which the agility quirks are not as valuable as survival skills because the agility skills are a percentage increase on such a small base, whereas the survival skills are a percentage increase in a very large base? Could there be other less obvious examples where the trade-off leans in that direction, against agility?

Thanks for any further thoughts.

[MischiefSC]

DeloresAbernathy, on 25 May 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Thanks for this post -- makes sense but I have some questions about "edge cases." Is there a point with low base agility mechs (e.g., Atlas or King Crab) at which the agility quirks are not as valuable as survival skills because the agility skills are a percentage increase on such a small base, whereas the survival skills are a percentage increase in a very large base? Could there be other less obvious examples where the trade-off leans in that direction, against agility?

Thanks for any further thoughts.

I'm finding that firepower > survival, Ops > agility but that there's room for all of them. I'll do Agility in lights and fast mediums but the payoff in heavies and assaults is so low, especially given how many assaults and heavies have structure/armor buffs. If your mech has structure/armor buffs then they payoff for survival skyrockets. If however your mech has agility buffs and no structure/armor buffs then you're better off drilling into mobility.

It's based a lot more on how you play than anything else right now.

[Bud Crue]

This is one of the more productive and useful threads since the skills tree dropped (even if you disagree with Mischief). I am adding a link to this om my contest thread.

My 2 cbills: I for one agree with Mischief, but for at least one exception: For me while I consider mobility and operations and then firepower (with a bit of sensors) to be the basic node-out for nearly every mech I have; I have found that some mechs that have lame armor on their arms but major weapons thereon ( my 3UAC Ebon for example) a few nodes in armor to get the numbers above 40 points has made all the difference of for that mech and I expect other mechs similarly situated. Otherwise I agree with the OP wholeheartedly.

Edited by Bud Crue, 25 May 2017 - 06:18 PM.