49 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

The only things I don't really agree with is the need for speed tweak, but as I've mentioned many times I believe that skill should also just be removed from the game entirely.

Might be slightly more top speed, but the main thing you need out of that tree is to get several of the kinetic bursts and a few of the torso speed nodes. 90% of the game is done from a dead stop or slow deathbally push while people try not to expose to much of their mechs - top speed really isn't a huge deal for that now that engines are decoupled. Not even for most lights if you don't run joke autocannon builds.

Also kind of interesting that you totally disregard the power of the sensor tree. +35% (60% with bap/cap) range, 1280m ecm/uav finding range.... + full derps for a few extra points + wall hack for 2 more points. (I think it was like 17 or 19 points for everything).
Because they refuse to actually implement more complex info warfare having the sensors + bap alone (much less on everyone in your unit) gives your radar that covers a sizable chunk of any map in the game.

Map control and shutting down ecm/luavs is also probably far more useful than armor, also blipping if not getting full targets on any scout or flanking attempts - I would reckon adds up to being far more useful than armor, like other people say because its always on.

Derps and Wallhacks are really optional at that point, but still useful enough for a few points and information control.

Also a few points saved from speed tweak that you don't need, can give you a much better array of options for running 2 weapon builds with max useful buffs - only a couple points needed to get full velocity/missile spread for Laser/Srm mechs for instance. Same for guass/ppc, guass/laser, ballistic/srm and that I think sums up most of the used options.

[MischiefSC]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

The only things I don't really agree with is the need for speed tweak, but as I've mentioned many times I believe that skill should also just be removed from the game entirely.

Might be slightly more top speed, but the main thing you need out of that tree is to get several of the kinetic bursts and a few of the torso speed nodes. 90% of the game is done from a dead stop or slow deathbally push while people try not to expose to much of their mechs - top speed really isn't a huge deal for that now that engines are decoupled. Not even for most lights if you don't run joke autocannon builds.

Also kind of interesting that you totally disregard the power of the sensor tree. +35% (60% with bap/cap) range, 1280m ecm/uav finding range.... + full derps for a few extra points + wall hack for 2 more points. (I think it was like 17 or 19 points for everything).
Because they refuse to actually implement more complex info warfare having the sensors + bap alone (much less on everyone in your unit) gives your radar that covers a sizable chunk of any map in the game.

Map control and shutting down ecm/luavs is also probably far more useful than armor, also blipping if not getting full targets on any scout or flanking attempts - I would reckon adds up to being far more useful than armor, like other people say because its always on.

Derps and Wallhacks are really optional at that point, but still useful enough for a few points and information control.

Also a few points saved from speed tweak that you don't need, can give you a much better array of options for running 2 weapon builds with max useful buffs - only a couple points needed to get full velocity/missile spread for Laser/Srm mechs for instance. Same for guass/ppc, guass/laser, ballistic/srm and that I think sums up most of the used options.

Mobility is better than survival on reasonably quick/nimble mechs, speed tweak especially. Its value declines on bigger mechs however anything with decent mobility to start with benefits from mobility quirks.

[Silas7]

just waiting for someone to graph the diminishing returns of armor and structure skills by weight class.

[sycocys]

MischiefSC, on 25 May 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

Mobility is better than survival on reasonably quick/nimble mechs, speed tweak especially. Its value declines on bigger mechs however anything with decent mobility to start with benefits from mobility quirks.

I guess what I'm saying is that the 100% uptime rule also applies to speed tweak.

With 90% of the mechs its only 2 uses are getting to the deathball, and clean-up duty. So plotting all sorts of points climbing the tree for a few kph you won't use most of the match isn't your best option.

The problem with the skill is that its so ingrained that people need it because it was the most overbuffed skill of the other tree.

The other options are hit or miss, they don't really buff a lot because most all the base values are set so low - they help but its marginal. Kinetic burst is really the only "needed" one as its a reasonably significant performance increase in your launch speed for only 4 or so points in the tree total.

[LordNothing]

1. i had a cool game in an awesome today that supports this theory. seemed like i was on the front but most of the trades were at about the 600 meter mark. i had to side poke (lower city in crimson), but it seemed that both my mech was sluggish and the trading mechs were equally sluggish at return fire. i died with about 800 damage and the rest of the team finished off all the mechs i opened up.

2. boating is a thing to consider. but if you have a lot of firepower, you are better off investing points in other areas than weapons. best case for mixed builds is to go for all the generic skills, especially heat gen and range, nabbing the ammo boosting skills whenever possible (mixed builds live and die by their ammo supply). and completely ignoring the specialty skills. this skill tree gives you another advantage in that the skills tend to be weapon class agnostic. you can mix srm 4s and 6s for example and get the same performance out of both. this really give you a go at optimizing your slots. like knocking a launcer down to fit an extra heat sink.

3. only some mechs seem to use the survivability skills well, like the atlas. generally speaking go with what your chassis is known for. survival tree is a terrible investment for a squirrel, i avoid using them on anything under 60 tons, but its great on an assault. dont even think about using it unless you arent already running 100% armor. you are better off adding armor and ignoring the skills, its not there to make up for a bad build.

4. again dont use this to make up for a bad build. if your mech goes a good speed for its weight class without sacrificing too much survivability (xl), you can just move along. i really only go for full speed on mechs that really need it, lights, mechs running slow at their max engine (vindicator), omnimechs (no other way to adjust speed), or assault mechs < 55kph (where a larger engine is very costly). i also tend to unlock more speed tweaks the brawlier my build gets.

5. dont really have anything to say here. you do kind of bring up a point about using the skill tree to save tonnage. but the skill tree does not exist to make up for a bad build. i kind of hinted to using the ammo nodes to extend an ammo reserve, or to use fewer crit slots for ammo to reduce the chance of ammo explosions or avoid needing to give up tonnage for case. its really the same thing. but start with a good build and then try to augment it with the tree to bring out its best features.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 May 2017 - 03:47 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Quote

If you're not maxing all but 2 points on mobility and ops then 16-19 pts in firepower you're doing it wrong in 99% of mechs and builds. What are you neglecting on ops and mobility and to get what?

Here we go... again. Someone telling everyone else how they are "doing it wrong!" Well good sir, I will build my Mechs the way I wish to build my Mechs and I would ask only that you keep that self righteous, holier than though, attitude you seem to be touting, out of the conversation. Thanks in advance,

[Henchman 24]

sneeking, on 14 May 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

i dont want to keep buying mech packs just to find reasons to keep playing that makes for a sad business model and makes for uninspired players who can no longer find justification for logging in and dropping.

THIS

So much this...I haven't logged in for close to a year for the most part. I reinstall windows and thought, "should I put MWO back in?" Still on the fence I'm guessing best described the feeling, anyway, it goes in because, freaking mechs.

Now, mind you I had every single pilot skill unlocked and was still working on some heavies purchased in packs 'cause the wait time when picking a heavy has never been balanced and takes forever usually due to high percentages played.

I log in recently and low and behold...years worth of customization is a crap sandwich, and worse yet, we have this "you have to buy can of oil lvl3 to get to loaf of bread lvl5 "skill" system.

Can't fix one thing without breaking 12 more can ya....4 years+ later, nothing changes.

[Knighthawk26]

Good Discussion everyone. This confirmed a lot of my decisions on the tree so far, except I too put a bit more into EW and consumables

[Knighthawk26]

For a laser vomit or other hot running mech putting 7 points into cool shots is a big help. That also lets you fire that last alpha, maybe twice! Cool shots are much better post skill tree than before, and you can get two good ones on your mech.

[Tiewolf]

Can't agree with the OPs general static assassment of the different skilltrees.
Imho the skilltree is used best if you amplify your mechs strengths. So make fast mechs faster, Long range weapons longer or heavy armored mechs tankier.

E.g. a slow mech won't get much faster even with speed tweek or more mobile if your acceleration is allready low. If yor weapon range is low then 10% more is useless. If you have not many heatsinks then Opperationnodes won't give you much. And so on...

To spec artillery strikes and extra coolshots are the real Meta atm. but its expensive to use.