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Laser Changes- What Do You Want?


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#1 Ruar

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:19 AM

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June will see an extensive balance pass performed on Energy weapons, which will touch nearly every weapon currently in the energy lineup. This balance pass will focus on two major points:
  • Better weapon role definition between different weapon types.
  • A heavy focus on better baseline balance between IS and Clan Energy weapons.



The skill tree Q&A had some interesting information, one piece of which is the goal of changing lasers. With that in mind what would the community like to see changed?

Starting with the idea of role definition.

The ER lasers should have a reduced burn time, reduced damage, reduced heat, but an increased time between firing.


The LL should have more damage and reduced burn time. I would also keep the optimum range the same but reduce the max range by 25%. This would help establish a role for each type of laser.

The ML should keep the current damage, reduced burn time, and reduced heat. I would reduce the max range by 40% but keep the current optimum range.

The SL should have it's burn time reduced and max range reduced by 75%.



Pulse lasers should have their maximum range removed and only have optimal range. This would reduce the overlap distances with regular lasers. Pulse lasers should have reduced burn time as well to also apply their damage more consistently. The trade off will be reduced range.


This would make each laser have it's own role on the battlefield instead of being able to fill several roles but with poor results. The idea in these changes is for each laser to put more damage on target with the reduced burn time, have each laser be unique for it's range by reducing the max range, and adjust the damage so the added weight and heat are a good trade off.

Pulse lasers will give you higher damage, higher heat, be almost instantaneous, but have shorter range. Better for brawling or skirmishing.

Regular lasers will have a better damage curve as you go up in size, have shorter burn time, and have some range flexibility.

ER lasers should have reduced damage, reduced burn time, reduced heat, and increased time between firing. This will make them better suited for longer range engagements by putting more of their damage on target but their range is offset by having less damage and slower refire rate. This means they will be more about shoot and move.

Each type of laser would have it's own role and then each class of laser also has a unique role.


PPCs are going to be interesting. Should they be thought of as long range weapons or should their role change? Will the pending addition of new PPC types dictated a preemptive change to the versions we already have?

I think the first change should be boosting the damage on IS weapons a little. 12 points per shot instead of the 15 that clans get seems reasonable. The next step would be making range adjustments similar to the above laser changes. Keep the current optimal ranges, reduce the max range. This narrows down which PPC to choose for which role you intend your mech to fill. I would also increase velocity by 30% on all PPCs to help offset the heat changes. Fewer misses due to slow orb speed.



TLDR version- Energy weapons should have shorter burn times, more reliant on optimal range instead of max range, better damage curve between laser sizes, faster PPC velocity, closer PPC damage. ER lasers would have less damage, less heat, but keep their role of best range for energy weapons. I would leave the heat mostly as it stands because it's already counted as a balance factor.

#2 Monkey Lover

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:22 AM

I am fine e with what we have now other than IS lpl could use a small nerf.
DPS and range the micro and Er lasers for middle row of what we have now and we should be good.

Then put the quirks back on the tier 4-5 mechs.

Ppc is all screwed up good luck with these.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 14 May 2017 - 10:23 AM.


#3 Shiroi Tsuki

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:25 AM

Honestly, I find energy (lasers in particular) to be just outright boring. They may be the "meta", but they are hella boring. All I want is for them to be more "fun and unique" That's all the change I want in all honesty

#4 Ruar

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:28 AM

View PostShiroi Tsuki, on 14 May 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Honestly, I find energy (lasers in particular) to be just outright boring. They may be the "meta", but they are hella boring. All I want is for them to be more "fun and unique" That's all the change I want in all honesty


We need a laser gatling gun for pulse lasers. That would be awesome and fun. Just hold down the trigger until it overheats.

#5 FupDup

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

Restore IS SL and ML heat to their original values.

The IS SL needs some specific love in other areas (e.g. cooldown?).

Maybe a small nudge for the IS LL.

Reduce Clan ERLL burn time a bit, maybe slash off one point of damage as compensation.

#6 Khobai

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:30 AM

Id like to see sensors have a purpose

I feel weapons shouldnt do any damage past optimum range unless you have a sensor lock

Then theres an actual reason to get sensor locks and light mechs have a reason to scout then.

It helps simulate the long range and extreme range penalties from battletech, where weapons have a very good chance of missing at long range and extreme range. And gives the long range meta a much needed kick in the nuts.

It also helps validate the role of light mechs. And to that end, I would also give light mechs a spotting bonus so they get partial credit for any damage done past optimum range to a mech theyve spotted. Because its only fair.

Then it gives us more of a thinking man's shooter because sensors and infotech become a new tactical aspect of the game.

Edited by Khobai, 14 May 2017 - 10:37 AM.


#7 Ruar

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:33 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 May 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Id like to see sensors have a purpose

I feel weapons shouldnt do damage past optimum range unless you have a sensor lock

Then theres an actual reason to get sensor locks


Would make more sense for sensor lock to be necessary for pinpoint convergence and no lock means your weapons have a wider cone of fire.

#8 Vanguard319

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:34 AM

Major nerf to IS lg pulse lasers, there is no way in hell you should be able to fire so many with little to no consequence, especially since the Clan version put you near shutdown with just 2

#9 Khobai

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

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Would make more sense for sensor lock to be necessary for pinpoint convergence and no lock means your weapons have a wider cone of fire.


yeah im not sold on cone of fire though. I like my weapons to shoot where I aim them.

I think weapons doing no damage past optimum range unless you have a sensor lock is better

#10 Monkey Lover

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:55 AM

View PostVanguard319, on 14 May 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Major nerf to IS lg pulse lasers, there is no way in hell you should be able to fire so many with little to no consequence, especially since the Clan version put you near shutdown with just 2
Any large nerf and people will stop using it like a few years ago. You have to make the extra weight worth taking over LL.

#11 Gentleman Reaper

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:10 AM

isSL: Reduce heat to 1 or 1.5, decrease cooldown, possibly increase damage to 3.5.

cERSL: Remain more or less as it is now, maybe slight decrease in burn-time.

isSPL: Decreased cooldown

cSPL: Remains as is.

isML: Decrease heat to 3, decrease cooldown, slight decrease in burn-time.

cERML: Increase cooldown

isMPL: Decrease heat to 3.5, decreased cooldown, slightly increased burn-time

cMPL: Increased burn-time

isLL: Slightly reduced burn-time

isERLL: Increased cooldown, slightly reduced burn-time

cERLL: Decreased burn-time, decreased range, increased cooldown.

isLPL: Increased burn-time, increased cooldown

cLPL: Decreased range, increased burn-time.

#12 Naglinator

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:11 AM

Less heat, more range for clan :)

#13 Ryllen Kriel

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:32 AM

View PostFupDup, on 14 May 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Restore IS SL and ML heat to their original values.

The IS SL needs some specific love in other areas (e.g. cooldown?).

Maybe a small nudge for the IS LL.

Reduce Clan ERLL burn time a bit, maybe slash off one point of damage as compensation.


A new Inner Sphere small laser sound effect too please. The Clanner small laser sounds great, like it is cutting through atmosphere. The Inner Sphere one is always so puny sounding.

#14 Valhallan

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:40 AM

View PostRuar, on 14 May 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:


We need a laser gatling gun for pulse lasers. That would be awesome and fun. Just hold down the trigger until it overheats.


You mean mechcommander version? less damage per shot drastically shortened burntimes and cooldown with appropriate heat adjustments. Yea it would, but alphawarrior online so.....Posted Image

#15 Khobai

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:48 AM

Quote

We need a laser gatling gun for pulse lasers. That would be awesome and fun. Just hold down the trigger until it overheats.


yep pulse lasers should fire more like starwars lasers


Quote

Yea it would, but alphawarrior online so....

and the best way to make the game less like alphawarrior online is to implement game mechanics that spread damage across multiple locations instead of letting weapons drill through one location.

#16 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:52 AM

One aspect of the current lasers I dislike is that pulse and standard lasers behave exactly the same, just with different stats.

I want to see pulse lasers to deal their damage in fewer discrete ticks, corresponding to their visual and sound effects. That is, for each "wub", it does one portion of damage. For instance, the IS LPL does 11 damage in 5 pulses, so each pulse would do 2.2 points of damage.

This would make pulse lasers better at focusing damage and slightly better at critting components.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 14 May 2017 - 02:26 PM.


#17 C E Dwyer

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:52 AM

View PostPromessa, on 14 May 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

They say they want to differentiate energy roles, rest snipped out


last time they said this, they came up with the node tree

#18 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:58 AM

View PostRyllen Kriel, on 14 May 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:


A new Inner Sphere small laser sound effect too please. The Clanner small laser sounds great, like it is cutting through atmosphere. The Inner Sphere one is always so puny sounding.


Well the IS small laser is pretty damn puny.

#19 Jay Leon Hart

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:58 AM

Set all Lasers to TT values, see what happens.

When it crashes and burns, use it as a counterpoint to any "BUT THE LORE!!" argument in the future.

#20 sycocys

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:59 AM

Minimum range roll-offs for everything not named Small Laser.

PPC + ERPPC should have lower damage and computer systems disruption, that also affects the shooter if used at close ranges. Possibly a fail mechanic like UACs that locks it up and jacks up your own computers for 10 seconds. Lower % than uac, but make it a risk to use over and over anyhow.

They should also add heat penalties like -
75% Radar goes fuzzy
80% No locks, No strikes
85% No Radar, No Targeting, No zoom/heat/night vision
90% 50 percent chance for weapons to not fire, movement rate reduced
95% Heat sinks take 1 point of damage
100% Heat sinks take 1 point of damage + overall heat threshold reduced 25% for remainder of match.

So running hot with high alpha shots (especially energy primary) starts to actually have a drawback. Guass would still need to be dealt with, but that's a place to start anyhow.

Combine an actual heat penalty system with minimum ranges on laser and you might actually start to see some mixed loadouts.





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