30 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

Engine dsync is just a way for them to have less things to balance. It does not give you more choice or better mechs or more fun game play. It does give them one less thing to balance. It also fits with PGIs goal of lowering over all agility.

Personally I think the desync is a bad idea.

[Athom83]

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I don't know enough about the lore stuff to argue whether muscular whatever is how we should interpret engine output. Nor am I going to argue with you about my observation about general trends and your personal "you can do this otherwise" preference.

You mean, you don't understand what this game and the balace of it is based on? What a surprise.

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

So I'll just stick to point 1 that yes... putting the same V6 engine in a compact car is WAY different from putting it in a truck. Which is exactly my point and doesn't change anything I said one bit.

No, putting 2 different engines on the same chassis was your point. My point of the same engine in different chassis as a reason for the desync of engine and mobility.

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

Hence, a Kodiak with a 400 engine do not have the same top speed nor acceleration than... say... a Linebacker with a 380

Exactly, a 54% tonnage increase with a engine increase of only 5% shouldn't be similar in performance. Which wasn't what was happening.

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

(but you know what, though I have a gut feeling that somehow they are capped and not remotely the same, since you claim that a cicada has the same turn and accel rate as a Kodiak at the current iteration of the gameplay, I will check this)

That was a bad example I gave. The Cicada has loads of mobility quirks while a Kodiak does not.

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

And also, you are contradicting yourself with the "muscular output stuff." Which in that case, theoretically, a 400 engine on a Locust should be the same as a Kodiak as long as the same engine can move the Kodiak. That's the whole point of your fancy space pseudo-mimic-human engine, right? Why would something that can support and generate the same rotational cycle to produce the same speed be affected by weight? (And of course, if it can't be supported, then the mech just won't move, or the engine burns up, so that's beyond the question)

I worded myself differently, but didn't contradict. The power available isn't the same as the rate the power is supplied. The myomer's strength is gained from area of electric application, not the direct power. However, spreading a lower power over a larger area reduces the amount of power it can supply reducing how much it can actually activate. Having more energy available means it can activate more fibers.

And I was referring to the force neccesary to move large objects such as battlemechs. Lets do some math. An Urban mech can mount a maximum engine of 180. A std 180 is 9 tons, 30% of the Urbanmech's mass. A Kodiak with std 325 engine (30.5 ton engine, ~30% of mech mass), while would turn and yaw slightly slower than the Urbanmech, accelerates faster. However, the force required to move a 100 ton object is exponentially greater than the force required to move a 30 ton object. A Kodiak reaching full speed needs about 490000N to be able to accelerate at its current rate. An Urbanmech only needs 270000N. And for the same mass we can swap that std 325 to a XL 390, making the force for acceleration 588000N. However, if we put an Urbanmech sized engine in the Kodiak (have to use a 200 for this example as that is the smallest you can put in it), the Kodiak now magically only needs around 180000N. Keep in mind that those numbers are calculated for base speed without speed tweak. So how is the 180 engine providing 270000N of force yet a 200 engine only provides 180000N of force? This is what the engine desync is trying to address.

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I know you messed up the quote, but just want to make it clear that I didn't say the Phoenix Hawk stuff. But... carry on.

Had the wrong quote header copied.

[Vorpal Bunny Rabbit]

So let me see if I get this strait...

If I remove a corvette's V8 engine and replace it with a 4 Banger the car will still handle the same relatively speaking?

[Lupis Volk]

Razen EA killed C&C not balance.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 15 May 2017 - 08:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Lupis Volk, on 15 May 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Razen EA killed C&C not balance.

RIP.

[Lupis Volk]

FupDup, on 15 May 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

RIP.

EA the harbinger of death to all game studios.

Ripperoni in Pepperoni Westwood.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 15 May 2017 - 08:29 PM.

[razenWing]

Lupis Volk, on 15 May 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

EA the harbinger of death to all game studios.

Well, they didn't kill Madden. I agree that EA suck balls... but the lack of creativity from the CC series probably didn't do itself any favor either. (At least there were no mislaunch or game bugs when the newer CC got announced. Fans were just not interested after maybe... RA2.)

[FupDup]

razenWing, on 15 May 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

Well, they didn't kill Madden. I agree that EA suck balls... but the lack of creativity from the CC series probably didn't do itself any favor either. (At least there were no mislaunch or game bugs when the newer CC got announced. Fans were just not interested after maybe... RA2.)

It was CnC4 that officially signed the death warrant of the franchise. This is of course the game that made the most changes to the core formula that defined the series in the first place...

CnC3 will always be my favorite RTS game.

[Y E O N N E]

C&C 3 was good until they patched it. Then they just kept buffing the Scrin and nerfing the other two sides and it was a load of horse.

[Dino Might]

Vorpal Bunny Rabbit, on 15 May 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

So let me see if I get this strait...

If I remove a corvette's V8 engine and replace it with a 4 Banger the car will still handle the same relatively speaking?

If you over-engine a pinto, or a corvette, or anything for that matter, such that the engine delivers more power than the transmission can deliver, then it doesn't matter. The car will only accelerate and drive so fast. In reality, you'll actually destroy the transmission, but let's consider that we're not dolts and we put a governor on the system, so you can't overtorque the drive shaft. Then no matter how big an engine you mount, the governor limits total power output.

Your car analogy, while flawed, can be made to work quite well with the desync solution, just like the myomer lore can as well. Think about each mech having only so many myomer bundles - once you've got enough power to actuate all the myomer in your mech, adding more power won't make it any stronger. You can provide more power, but you've actuated all the fibers that are there.

Bigger engine makes more noise, but not more go fast.

[ingramli]

From what i read with the engine decoupling, what i expect is that IS`s heavy/assaults outfiting an XL Engine will be a worse idea than before given the fact that they cant quick twist their torso to spread damage like the old days (unless they invest in the skill tree, but it defeat the purpose of a large XL engine nevertheless), clans are also affected, but at a lesser extent as they can stay alive with a single ST blown away.