953 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

BzP, on 17 May 2017 - 03:53 AM, said:

All I can say in the topic about new skill tree is - you have MURDERED THE FUN of playing this game with all LOCUSTS,
I have tried to rebalance this mech with new skills in any possible way - it moves like a piece of WOOD NOW !
RIP Locust - RIP FUN - RIP MWO !

New alt account b/c someone skerred to openly say what they feel under their main account.

Normal person + anonymity + internet = raging f-wad

[Taxxian]

I checked my Locust yesterday and its ok... it does not turn as fast as before but the nerf is absolutely deserved...

Every competetive team I know of used Locusts more than any other light mech, it was simply the single most tonnage efficient mech in the game...

[Ulvar]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

On top of that we all know that voices tend to be louder and more vociferous when people don't like something.

Tons of people play this game without playing the forum warrior mini-game so the more accurate statemate is "alot of people that use forums expressed dislike over the skill tree implementation and threatened to rage quit."

problem is that they always only say that they would quit. and next patch they are here and it starts again.

[BzP]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

New alt account b/c someone skerred to openly say what they feel under their main account.

Normal person + anonymity + internet = raging f-wad

You are wrong mate!

Im playing this game few months - when I have found info about MWO I have felt in love with it from first sight!

Now my heart is broken so much - and yeah RAGE is on now but game is wasted you will see on servers soon,

All my friends said yesterday GOODBYE MWO !

[DarthFunkNinja]

It is down to mixed on steam at 65% because of the negative feedback the last 2 days

[PFC Carsten]

Aramuside, on 17 May 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

Coincidentally why did you not try PTS 2 as you'd have seen all this already... or in fact read any of the past threads?

Just out of curiosity: What would have beend the difference considering the minuscule differences between the PTS2 and the life version? It is not as if you'd have a choice what PGI decides to put on the life servers.

[DevlinCognito]

johnwolf, on 17 May 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

Complicated....i couldn't beyond disagree here, it's very straight forward and easy to understand. It only LOOKS complex from the start and a new player may be intimidated. that being said, there's a LOT of depth here, especially if you think about what you have to start compensating in order to have skills in everything.

But that's the thing isn't it, I woke up all full of vim and vigor about giving this a fair shot, after looking at it and seeing how much I needed to clickety click I thought to myself do I really want to go through this just to play the game that is STILL the same 12 maps and game modes? Depth isn't 0.75 extra heat gen, its something that is engaging. Yes if I go a certain route round all the nodes I don't want, I can be EVER SO SLIGHTLY cooler or tankier, but to do that for 183 Mechs is .... beyond dull. Now I could only do this for the Mechs I play on a regular basis, but I just cant be bothered. I have been playing this game long enough to work out what skills I would prefer to have on my favourite Pixie, or how to use the survivability tabs to make the tanky Urbie have as much armour as a medium, but this isn't making the game fun or interesting, this isn't making the game balanced ... you know, things the fan base have been begging for. This is adding complexity for complexity sake.

[MovinTarget]

BzP, on 17 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

You are wrong mate!

Im playing this game few months - when I have found info about MWO I have felt in love with it from first sight!

Now my heart is broken so much - and yeah RAGE is on now but game is wasted you will see on servers soon,

All my friends said yesterday GOODBYE MWO !

As I said, new account "member since yesterday" it says the top... thats not from the first time you logged into the forums, thats when this account was created.

I am not saying you don't have a right to an opinion, only that you should be voicing it from your main account and only your main account unless you wish to be subject to CoC infractions.

Some people abuse alts this way to manifacture movements and give the appearance of there being more likeminded people than there really are.

Quite simply, BzP was born yesterday, not me....

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 May 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

I am less ragey today ... still salty, but after skilling up a few mechs I feel somewhat better about the update. If I didn't have so many mechs and more time on my hands I think I'd likely enjoy the skill tree over the past system. You can get some fairly serious builds with the skill tree but man the trade offs can be tough.

[Horseman]

MovinTarget, on 17 May 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

You can do it much faster after the first, maybe 5 minutes or less, is that really so laborious?

It's more tedious and laborious than it should be.

SPNKRGrenth, on 17 May 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

The new system needs work, it needs refinement, it needs simplification.
I HIGHLY encourage you to work in streamlining and simplifying it some, as it really does need it.

We've been telling PGI that since PTS1. What you're seeing is what they consider already streamlined, refined and simplified, and the chance of them reworking it to something more practical is at this point nil.

SPNKRGrenth, on 17 May 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

But at the core of it, it's fun and different, and lets you have more variety be viable than with the old minimaxing system..
It gives more control of what the mech is good at over to the player, instead of being made to play a mech a handful of ways or I'm doing it wrong.
But have you considered all the added control that the new system gives to the player for what they want their mech to be good at?

Actually, your mechs will never quite reach the same degree of specialization the old quirks+modules enabled.

Quote

While still managing to have the different mechs feel like they're different from each other, rather than blending together into pointlessness.

"Different from each other" how exactly? Every chassis has the same skill tree, and the quirks have been strongly reduced. Everyone will be converging on a single meta for each role, with little to no real variety.

Aramuside, on 17 May 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

Not actually true at all which makes me wonder if you even tried it there?

I did, gave my feedback on PTS1 and since it should have never gotten past internal QA in that form did not see it fit to sink excessive time on testing it further.
Since PGI clearly did not listen to much of the feedback for PTS1 and continued to repeat the same mistakes, I saw no reason to do their internal QA's job for them on PTS2 again.

Quote

But hey... I'm sure your "alternate facts" are useful in preaching to the crowd

Maybe you saw it differently, but most of the feedback for both PTSes that I've seen amounted to "good idea, but the UI is borderline unusable and the amount of time it requires is excessive".

FFS... look around you - is the feedback you're seeing now overwhelmingly positive, or are most of the users pissed off about the system's UI and UX? Because I see the latter, exactly as predicted.

Zarock, on 17 May 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

The only problem I have is the amount of effort I have to put into this, 167 mechs times 91 clicks.. will take a whil till I reskilled everything :/ I hope we get some cool events to sweeten this time

With goals like "clicked 100 skill nodes", "Fully skilled 15 mechs", "deactivated 200 skill nodes", "completely respecced 20 mechs", "unlocked every possible skill node on 5 mechs"...

[MovinTarget]

DevlinCognito, on 17 May 2017 - 04:12 AM, said:

But that's the thing isn't it, I woke up all full of vim and vigor about giving this a fair shot, after looking at it and seeing how much I needed to clickety click I thought to myself do I really want to go through this just to play the game that is STILL the same 12 maps and game modes? Depth isn't 0.75 extra heat gen, its something that is engaging. Yes if I go a certain route round all the nodes I don't want, I can be EVER SO SLIGHTLY cooler or tankier, but to do that for 183 Mechs is .... beyond dull. Now I could only do this for the Mechs I play on a regular basis, but I just cant be bothered. I have been playing this game long enough to work out what skills I would prefer to have on my favourite Pixie, or how to use the survivability tabs to make the tanky Urbie have as much armour as a medium, but this isn't making the game fun or interesting, this isn't making the game balanced ... you know, things the fan base have been begging for. This is adding complexity for complexity sake.

Devlin, it is a little difficult to manufacture depth in a game where you experience depends on the choices/behavior of up to 23 strangers.

The skill tree can really change how mechs behave and perform. Give it an hour and you'll see. I will be online in a bit and I'll learn ya good.

Crockdaddy, on 17 May 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

You can get some fairly serious builds with the skill tree but man the trade offs can be tough.

Sounds about right. If you want a mech to be a brawling damage tanker it can't also be a sniper.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 May 2017 - 05:03 AM.

[Aramuside]

PFC Carsten, on 17 May 2017 - 04:10 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity: What would have beend the difference considering the minuscule differences between the PTS2 and the life version? It is not as if you'd have a choice what PGI decides to put on the life servers.

Except PTS1 was very different to PTS2 and therefore your original statement is totally wrong.... be a man and admit it.

[Wolfgang Grenzstein]

Seriously:
Get rid of the respec penalty (yes, having to repurchase skill points after respec IS a penalty).

Whenever you implement a system like this, you do not get variety you force people even more into cookie cutters. Us filthy new potatoes are forced to spec whatever the community deems "must have" next week and many will not touch the tree until then.

Personally, I am ****** because I went speccing survivability on a mech without inherent armor quirks only to find out that it is utter garbage (20ish points lost for 5 additional points of armor... umm, yay?). Respecced but the skill points are gone, wasted on the armor unlocks.

Again: What is the point in this?

[Aramuside]

Crockdaddy, on 17 May 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

I am less ragey today ... still salty, but after skilling up a few mechs I feel somewhat better about the update. If I didn't have so many mechs and more time on my hands I think I'd likely enjoy the skill tree over the past system. You can get some fairly serious builds with the skill tree but man the trade offs can be tough.

Yeah that mirrored my experience - I raged at the initial PGI version, tried it through PTS1 and started to adjust mentally, looked at the changes to 2, tried that and then acclimatized myself to the new system. I'm still not a fan but its what it is and I'll make the best of the situation.

[MovinTarget]

Wolfgang Grenzstein, on 17 May 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Seriously:
Get rid of the respec penalty (yes, having to repurchase skill points after respec IS a penalty).

Whenever you implement a system like this, you do not get variety you force people even more into cookie cutters. Us filthy new potatoes are forced to spec whatever the community deems "must have" next week and many will not touch the tree until then.

Personally, I am ****** because I went speccing survivability on a mech without inherent armor quirks only to find out that it is utter garbage (20ish points lost for 5 additional points of armor... umm, yay?). Respecced but the skill points are gone, wasted on the armor unlocks.

Again: What is the point in this?

At the very least, they could have a "exploration period" where the respecc costs are waved while people get acclimated to the new system and want to try out different specs.

Additionally, They might want to consider an integrated walk through in the Academy for how to use the Skill Tree (give 'em some cbills for completing it). Of course, that will get done right around the time we get an FP wing at the academy (i.e. how to open a gate... hint, don't shoot the gate)

[Thomas G Wolf]

hmm rinse and repeat for the skill nodes as if you want to get back what you "lost" from the old skills you need to always pick the same skill set and as there is no way to choise a different route to get the same stuff that you lost you tend to repeat you skillsets which kind of defeats what PGI wanted to do in making Mechs different. To make them different you would need 10 to 15 more skill points then we have now, just my 2 cents worth.

[Frozen Spirit Jac]

I might be missing something that I read in the patch notes but i am finding that the
MECH MASTERY BREAKDOWN jornal of my mechs for HSP totals is missing quiet a lot of other mechs I have in my mechs bays.
Example, I have 153 mechs and only 132 mechs were give HSP totals. That is missing the mechs that I MASTERED under the previous skill tree like, all the Bushwackers i purchased; then others like with c-bills Warhammers, Riflemen, almost all the Loyalty mechs that were awarded to me, then the Butterbee, the JR7-II-A, as i received HSP for the other JR7's and Catapults, so what gives?

anyway i had a gut full looking at this and going over a previous listing of mech loadouts with such comparison for previous quirks and now (no matter how much you up it with the new skill tree) and I am thinking the past few years of tweaking and what not has gone to ****! thanks guys i am really starting to feel i have wasted so much in this!

[Whiskey Peddler]

Good on you PGI!

I started playing MWO in mid February of 2017 and was about to begin buying 3 variants of one chassis until I read about the skill tree. I didn't like the rule of three from the beginning. So I waited and purchased one variant of a bunch of different chassis. I fell in love with this game and was sad when the skill tree kept being pushed back due to complaints from the community...however I do think that PGI was correct to listen to the community regarding SKILL POINT cost, and refunds of modules and awarding skill points for previously mastered mechs.

So far the skill tree (at least to this relatively new MWO pilot) is WONDERFUL! I can skill any variant of a mech to a special tasked mech. This is awesome! And cry me a river about the "91 Clicks". You click 91 times EVERY match in the first 2 minutes of said match...moot point.

I love the specialization of the ability per variant now via the skill tree. I can have a brawler, mid range, meta, long range, etc. I didn't want to buy the variants before to elite, now I WANT to buy those variants, not to elite, but to make a mech tailored to a specific role.

This is good for the game. I hope people will give it time.

Thank you PGI for following through with this skill tree.

[metallio]

I'm tired already...not like exhausted...just realized after three mechs that I don't have the energy for this.

I'll play some I guess, but holy cr@p is this a bigger mess than I thought it would be. I gave short shrift to the people complaining about the number of clicks...but the inability to even fit the thing on my screen to see it...jiminy christmas...

I mean, I don't mind complicated, but this is horrendous. I'll play without skilling for the most part. Coupled with the horrid UI and inability to even see wtf you're doing, the fact that this costs me in game resources that I can't ever get back totally breaks the game for me.

If I want work and painful banging away at bad code I shut off my games and go to the office. I'm pretty sure some of my clan mechs won't need any skilling anyway...and I want to have fun, not this mess.

Gah, never thought I'd be one to say something like that...it's just a skill tree right? Nah, this is too...something. Whatever it is, I'm suddenly completely uninterested in MWO. That's good for my workload, not so much for my life happiness.

I don't want to find another game to time sink for me...please do something about this mess.

I didn't think highly of the previous "skill system"...I like the IDEA of the skill tree...this implementation is not a good rendition of that idea. FFS, you could have literally copied World of Warcraft skill trees and it would have worked better.

Edited by metallio, 17 May 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[Chuanhao]

I'm not very concerned about this new skill tree.

First, I love that I no longer need three chassis.

Second, I no longer have to swop modules.

Third, variety is there for those that want to try, even if most people meta.

What I am most worried is when they revise the whole thing when the new weapons come about.

ATM tree, Rotary tree, rocket tree

I am okay with re clicking my mechs, will only do so one at a time. But I hope not to re click when new weapons come.