953 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Rodrigo Martinez, on 18 May 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Please, can you give me a scheme to get all old skills? Best if it's will be pictures.

I'm sure only in the operations tree, where I pick up everything except 5 nodes. It's cool run and heat cont. 20 nodes, 16000exp vs 1750 in past to get normal heat management. And now only 71 node left. Even with boats I still have to choose how much I should invest in weaponry: full or no? Will it be enought or no? After that I have a choise between mobility and surv. I need to test these things live to get opinion is it worth or no. Me, personally. Then sensors. Can some mech benefit from the rad. depr. while others mechs not? I think it's possible. My mech can have JJ. Too many variants to try but I have to choose wisely or grind-grind-grind.

And if I have new mech and no GSP. In past 1750GXP was enought to start playing any mech. How much GXP I need now to get old basic heat gent numbers? Add engine desync. For me, only for me, it's too big effort and I don't see big advanteges over the old system atm.

For weapon cool down numbers you cannot duplicate the previous levels but then that's also part of the PGI plan to re-balance the game and increase the TTK. But for the other skills... well convergence has been a useless placeholder 3000 xp sink for years.... the cool run and heat capacity totals have dropped 5% each (and that too is deliberate by PGI to increase TTK), but now everyone has access to heat generation nodes that apply to all their weapons. We used to be able to pick up after elite skill complete a net 5% of anchor turn, 5% of torso twist speed, 5% of torso twist range, 5% each for arm speed and range, and 15% acceleration and braking. Oh and the 7.5% speed tweak.

The maximum allowed heat capacity (15%) and cool run (10%), and 35% quick ignition costs 22 nodes in the operations table, but also brings you 10% speed retention, 10% hill climb and 70% improved gyros which are all part of 3 seperate modules before. 28 nodes in the mobility tree combine to give you 8% torso yaw speed, 6% torso yaw angle, 8% torso pitch angle, the 7.5% mech speed bonus, 17.5% each to acceleration and deceleration, and 20% to turn rate. Except for the ignition, capacity and cool run #s, all of those are higher than they were before and that's only half the nodes used. This was what I did with one of my Assassins for example. I still had 41 nodes leftover to put into other areas. Assassins had minimal weapon quirks for example even when new a couple months ago so the lost essentially nothing under the new tree quirk changes (a single variant lost 5% of missile velocity).

And with the engine de-sync of the agility, that's with any engine in your mech (which now only affects top speed).

[Grinster]

Fox the Apprentice, on 17 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

After 2 days of playing, I've found I like the skill tree for everything but assaults. Assaults kinda have to go armor instead of speed, as mobility is useless for them, and I always liked being a bit fast for my weight class.

Have you tried the 80t Assaults?

[NocturnalBeast]

Grinster, on 18 May 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Have you tried the 80t Assaults?

I am going to work on my Zeus next, too bad it has a mix of weapons that will require most of the Firepower tree though.

[Simbacca]

Looking through the skill tree - it is very complex. I argued in the past, and will argue again - branded weapons would have been the way to go. Brand A gives longer range, but at a cost of extra heat, Brand B gives faster fire at the cost of range, etc.

[Rodrigo Martinez]

Dee Eight, on 18 May 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

For weapon cool down numbers you cannot duplicate the previous levels but then that's also part of the PGI plan to re-balance the game and increase the TTK. But for the other skills... well convergence has been a useless placeholder 3000 xp sink for years.... the cool run and heat capacity totals have dropped 5% each (and that too is deliberate by PGI to increase TTK), but now everyone has access to heat generation nodes that apply to all their weapons. We used to be able to pick up after elite skill complete a net 5% of anchor turn, 5% of torso twist speed, 5% of torso twist range, 5% each for arm speed and range, and 15% acceleration and braking. Oh and the 7.5% speed tweak.

The maximum allowed heat capacity (15%) and cool run (10%), and 35% quick ignition costs 22 nodes in the operations table, but also brings you 10% speed retention, 10% hill climb and 70% improved gyros which are all part of 3 seperate modules before. 28 nodes in the mobility tree combine to give you 8% torso yaw speed, 6% torso yaw angle, 8% torso pitch angle, the 7.5% mech speed bonus, 17.5% each to acceleration and deceleration, and 20% to turn rate. Except for the ignition, capacity and cool run #s, all of those are higher than they were before and that's only half the nodes used. This was what I did with one of my Assassins for example. I still had 41 nodes leftover to put into other areas. Assassins had minimal weapon quirks for example even when new a couple months ago so the lost essentially nothing under the new tree quirk changes (a single variant lost 5% of missile velocity).

And with the engine de-sync of the agility, that's with any engine in your mech (which now only affects top speed).

The new skill system may look good and may give you variety. Most of people speaks about the new system having in mind that we all have some thousaunds of GSP. But let's imagine that I have no GSP and very short in GXP.I have a new mech which is not a boat. Some heavy mech can be a slow DD or mobile hit-and-run. And I don't want blindly follow metamech guide, I want to test it by myself to understand which role is better fits for my gameplay.

I have a wolfhound-2 with 91 points. What will be best to it? It have strong armor quirks. I want test it with max surv. branch and full weapon. Then mobility and sensors. But I can't without investing GSP or GXP. I don't want to play 30 or more matches to collect experience and for sure I won't do that. And I speak about a mech with 91 SP, but in future I'll have empty ones. I will tolerate 91 SP in total without node unlocking, just spending SP and respec option for 2mil or such but not current system, I just don't have enough of time for playing in new system.

[NocturnalBeast]

Simbacca, on 18 May 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

Looking through the skill tree - it is very complex. I argued in the past, and will argue again - branded weapons would have been the way to go. Brand A gives longer range, but at a cost of extra heat, Brand B gives faster fire at the cost of range, etc.

They had that in Mechwarrior Tactics, but you got the weapons from RNG card packs.

[Genesis23]

FreakinLazerbeams, on 18 May 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

ya I don't know what kind of logic/reasoning your using when u say " 30-35 tons tanking more dmg then kingcrabs" or any 90-100 ton assaults. Even if you max out survivability for any light mech, any assault mech will always tank more then a light based on armor and internal hard points.

very easy explained: maxed armor on my spider lets me tank ridiculous amounts of damage while still running fast enough to dodge half of the enemy damage. a king crab is a sitting duck that cant run away and dies in a few seconds if focused. but try to focus a spider - before the skill tree, i killed 6 mechs once in a run-by just by shooting the first 3 in the back and killed 6 more with side torso shooting while being focused by 5-6 enemy mechs. and now it could tank even more...

was a fun match at the time, with a sdr-5k killing 6 mechs, a shadowcat sniper killing 5 and some heavy killing the last one of them - we won 12:11 with the shadowcat being the last one standing

Edited by Genesis23, 18 May 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[Horseman]

Arkhangel, on 18 May 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

think something a lot of people aren't realizing? make your build, THEN spec to it. don't skill first and then make your loadout. it'll be a LOT easier on you.

Maybe you aren't realizing most of us are in fact trying to skill already existing builds.

Ed Steele, on 18 May 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

Of course the system is designed so that impatient people who change their specs often will end up buying MC to speed the process up, it is a "freemium" game after all, but you do have the option of grinding it out for free if you want.

Numbers in the mechlab are one thing, how the mech actually performs in the field is another entirely. Unless the player is mindlessly copying someone else's "meta" loadout, chances are they will be coming back to readjust it based on in-game performance at least once, if not more.

That's going to be even worse for new players.

[GatoSamurai]

I think that this upgrade benefits the mechs of the clans, before the Mechs of the inner sphere, had more modules available than the clan mech, now this small advantage disappears.

I do not like how the trees are organized, to take an advantage you have to get many that you are not interested.


The solution I think would be to give more points to the mechs of the inner sphere and reorganize the trees.

Edited by GatoSamurai, 18 May 2017 - 11:46 PM.

[Thomasso]

Well... and where is Summoner 5% Speed Tweak Quirk??? Hmmm.. Now it os lost. Pitty.


T.

[Genesis23]

instead of 91 out of 237 nodes it would been better to just choose 9 of 24. so we would not have to take 10x 0.5% and just one for 5%, which would be more effective and less chaotic in terms of time waste and oversight. the compromise of give-and-take and priorising for your own playstyle would have been the same.

no idea how someone actually managed to justify this mess at some meeting at PGI and how this could get past the testing phase/PTS.

[MovinTarget]

Genesis23, on 19 May 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

instead of 91 out of 237 nodes it would been better to just choose 9 of 24. so we would not have to take 10x 0.5% and just one for 5%, which would be more effective and less chaotic in terms of time waste and oversight. the compromise of give-and-take and priorising for your own playstyle would have been the same.

no idea how someone actually managed to justify this mess at some meeting at PGI and how this could get past the testing phase/PTS.

My only thought is for those not interested in min-max, but creating all-around balanced mechs. They dip into a bit of every thing so that the mech is not deficient in any one thing...

This logic probably is most applicable to solo dropping where you can't rely on team coordination to act as a force multiplier and can't focus on a particular playstyle since you don't know what map/mode you'll get.

Not justifying it, only pointing out how someone may want that flexibility...

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 May 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Horseman]

Genesis23, on 19 May 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

instead of 91 out of 237 nodes it would been better to just choose 9 of 24. so we would not have to take 10x 0.5% and just one for 5%, which would be more effective and less chaotic in terms of time waste and oversight. the compromise of give-and-take and priorising for your own playstyle would have been the same.

Probably more like 20 out of 50, but yes,

Quote

no idea how someone actually managed to justify this mess at some meeting at PGI and how this could get past the testing phase/PTS.

It was repeatedly criticized during both PTS phases. PGI chose to deploy it anyway.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Grinster, on 18 May 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Have you tried the 80t Assaults?

Not sure I have any. Got recommendations?

[ThatGuy539]

For me it hasn't added to the fun of the game....at least not yet.

I have over 320 mechs, and all were mastered. And I had each setup to what worked best. And of course I had my favorites. (And it took years of work to get there.)
I used to be able to just drop in and start playing.
Even when I was leveling mechs it just came down to some tweaking of the load-outs here and there as I gained XP for the skills. And this includes whenever they made any quirk/nerf passes in the past. It wasn't a huge investment of time to deal with.

But now it's so much more involved. Most of my previous work has to be redone. And add to that, that I can't get many mechs back to what they were before. I understand that this affects everyone and not just me, but I still feel like I lost something with this change.

Take my Locust 1E for example.
Used to have 7 module slots.
Spl cooldown
Spl range
Radar derp
Siesmic
Targeting
Arty
UAV
plus all the skills were top level, and the mech was mastered

Now I can get back some of that, but not all of it. Or at least not to the level it all was before.
When I take mechs out now I notice how they are less than they used to be. (And I get how that is the idea, but it doesn't change the fact that I notice how the mechs are less than they were.)
Not as fast, or maneuverable, or tanky, or overheats too quickly, or no seismic, or that arty isn't there that always was before, etc.

I do see that it adds something to the depth and variety of the game.
But even with a ton of GSP + 91 per mech already, I'm looking at doing a ton of experimentation and retweeking for all my mechs to see what works and what doesn't.
And I have to get used to them being maybe better in one way or another, but less overall, and just different than what I've become used to.

Then I expect that when I start getting comfortable with it, PGI will make some changes and I'll have to do it all over again. (well, depending on how drastically they change the tree)

I drop a lot with my friends and this becomes a handicap here too. I don't want to be holding everyone up while I rush through setting up the skills for a mech (and possibly wasting SP), so I'll only be dropping with ones that I've already redone, or just drop with unskilled mechs.

If the game had started out like this way back I wouldn't have a problem. But I've been spoiled with the simplicity and functionality of the previous system.

Maybe after I've had time to figure things out and get some mechs setup the way I like, I'll be back into the groove. But for me personally right now it's added work, and less fun.

Edited by ThatGuy539, 19 May 2017 - 06:03 AM.

[MovinTarget]

So the previous guy has some legit points and I appreciate him articulating them instead of raging because that helps everyone understand your point of view.

I would like to share my experience to counter. Not in the sense that I discredit his point, but to offer a different side...

I was working through my Tbolts and was on the Top Dog.

I had it set up as 8 MPL and skilled it according to what I figured to make sense:



Can't figure out how to do a Spoiler so here are links to the tree choices I made:

http://i.imgur.com/XCEYwRa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ccqz31t.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E7uTZBA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cmb13fl.jpg


I knew it would be boating lasers but I set up my skills like so and I had a good blend of skills where apart from perhaps wanting a little more agility, I had pretty much the best skills for my loadout options and style.

After I settled on this I was able to switch weapons to make it viable in all kinds of scenarios:

Note: all these run with a STD300

8 MPL (or 7 if its too toasty)
3 LPL (SUPER COOL RUNNING if needing LPL vomit on a hot map)
4 ERLL, 2 ML
3 ERLL 4 SPL (My new Fave!)

Apart from the usual mechlab tweaking (armor/HS) I didn't need to respec. My ERLL had Optimal to 810m and had almost the Duration of a regular LL.

So the boat haters, yeah they'll point at this and say SEE! SEE?!?!? but this mech is all energy, what else am I supposed to do with it?

So before you decide that you have to respecc every time you retool a mech, consider that picking carefully can (in some cases) make it very easy to slip between effective builds.

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 May 2017 - 07:08 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

I've got to say I'm very impressed by the changes which came with this patch. It's not only that the tree is super fun to toy around with; it's also the fact that TTK saw a good rise upwards and the matches are generally a bit more drawn out and tactical.

So far I'm very satisfied with the state of things. I have, e.g., 4 Bushwackers and I can spec all 4 with a different focus. Major plus as well: Atlas' feel like kings of the battlefield again. Major pita and super durable. I didn't try any of my Atlas' yet but I like the changes. And this even though I managed to win only a single game since the patch. It feels more like a mech game again. Excellent stuff.

Keep going like this and the civil war update will be a joy to play.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 19 May 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Bishop Six]

I also like the new skill tree:

- more options
- very different mechs on battlefield
- real specializations
- more suprises while fighting -> more action
- awesome jump jets (poptart vindicator )
- i fell more free to focus on a certain theme
- there is no real meta anymore, because of the choices which have to be make and i like that!
- new content is always interesting and i have lots of stuff to discover and trying out

- PGI earns respect alone for the try to improve that game. I know publishers which throw broken betas on the market and the only thing they "improve" is the way of payment options and over expensive dlcs...

- After skilling 3-4 mechs i know the ways of nodes and now it can be done really fast.

Thx PGI for the hard work!

[ThatGuy539]

You know what my biggest problem with this patch is...... No one has found any super funny bugs to exploit.

There was that one about chain fired LRMs not being stopped by AMS, but that was about it. And it's been fixed already.

How's Theb33f supposed to make any videos?

Where's our 1000% increase LRM cool down, or being able to jump all the way across the map, or something?

Ooo...there was that one about mechs falling down. But I don't think anyone has figured out how to reproduce it.

[Sonny Black]

ThatGuy539, on 19 May 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

You know what my biggest problem with this patch is...... No one has found any super funny bugs to exploit.

There was that one about chain fired LRMs not being stopped by AMS, but that was about it. And it's been fixed already.

How's Theb33f supposed to make any videos?

Where's our 1000% increase LRM cool down, or being able to jump all the way across the map, or something?
.

You Don't Suppose This Could Be Some Sort Of Giant Insidious PLOT Against The b33f?

Edited by Sonny Black, 19 May 2017 - 10:15 AM.