953 replies to this topic

[Excalibaard]

MovinTarget, on 22 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

I liked a lot of your points and felt there should be 3 ways to apply skills:

1) manual (currently implementation)
2) Reverse Pathing (your suggestion) - finds "cheapest" path to get you from starting node/nearest skilled node to the desired node.
3) have each possible skill listed on the side with its own "+/-" buttons. As you bump up/down those skills it will fill in the nodes on the trees that would not just support the skill you are currently modifying, but rebalance the tree(s) for all the other bonuses you want. The point is that there may be a different path if you want +8% Range versus +7% Range *AND* -5% Cooldown...

The last one is a bit trickier since it may involve respeccs in some cases, but it may help people get a grasp of what they can accomplish if focusing on a specific set of skills...

Also, don't know hill climb too much, its actually been really helpful on some of my assaults getting to places they couldn't previously.

Finally, JJ tree may be niche, but its very useful for mechs that only get a few JJ like Highlanders/IIc so they can poptart again.

I have no issues with the existence of the JJ tree, I think it could even be a little bit more powerful. But 'speed while being legged' is niche, whenever you're legged you'll die within a few seconds anyway, or you'll be dead without being legged at all. Gyro's as I explained ar less useful, as the hindering factor is the vision obscuring explosions, not the screen shake. Hill climb only works on ridges which depend greatly on the map you're fighting on.

This makes the Operations tree obsolete except for Coolrun and Heatcontainment. Instead of these niche upgrades that people won't notice greatly, I'd suggest to put the AMS, NARC, ECM, TAG and all other additional non-weaponry, non-consumable equipment (this includes heat sinks, translated as Heat Containment and Cool Run) that takes up slots in this tree.

Your ideas would also be nice in terms of user friendliness, though the third is weird, as people will want to know why sometimes a certain increases costs so many more skill points. It'd be a shame for such an easily understood mechanism of +/- to require looking at the skill maze even more.

Edited by Excalibaard, 22 May 2017 - 01:22 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Excalibaard, on 22 May 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I have no issues with the existence of the JJ tree, I think it could even be a little bit more powerful. But 'speed while being legged' is niche, whenever you're legged you'll die within a few seconds anyway, or you'll be dead without being legged at all. Gyro's as I explained ar less useful, as the hindering factor is the vision obscuring explosions, not the screen shake. Hill climb only works on ridges which depend greatly on the map you're fighting on.

This makes the Operations tree obsolete except for Coolrun and Heatcontainment. Instead of these niche upgrades that people won't notice greatly, I'd suggest to put the AMS, NARC, ECM, TAG and all other additional non-weaponry, non-consumable equipment that takes up slots in this tree.

Your ideas would also be nice in terms of user friendliness, though the third is weird, as people will want to know why sometimes a certain increases costs so many more skill points. It'd be a shame for such an easily understood mechanism of +/- to require looking at the skill maze even more.

Yeah I know #3 is hard to explain, and I didn't do it justice, but the idea is simply for the user to be able to inidcate:
+10% X
-5% Y
.
.
.
+15% Z

each being a skill somewhere in the skill tree, you can +/- each one independently and it will dynamically spec the tree(s) to accomplish this.

It would tell you it requires <#> skill nodes total and as long as its legal for you to do so, you can spend the SP to unlock them right there. Part of this would be to ensure that the least number of SP is used to accomplish this.

[krimshaw]

Not sure if this has been discussed but why can't we buy other nodes with SP with out having to disable other nodes and pay to re-activate them?

[MovinTarget]

krimshaw, on 22 May 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed but why can't we buy other nodes with SP with out having to disable other nodes and pay to re-activate them?

I am not sure I ever understood PGI's reason on this other than perhaps to prevent anyone from ever having more than 91 active nodes at a time? Might be simply easier to program it that way...

[Mycroft000]

I would still like to know why Google Maps can give multiple different paths through a Point A to Point B path, but we can't hover over one node at the bottom of the tree and cycle through all possible paths to it and unlock all of those at once.

[Admiral-Dan]

MovinTarget, on 22 May 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

I am not sure I ever understood PGI's reason on this other than perhaps to prevent anyone from ever having more than 91 active nodes at a time? Might be simply easier to program it that way...

Nah, PGI thinks grind is content.

[NocturnalBeast]

mycroft000, on 22 May 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

I would still like to know why Google Maps can give multiple different paths through a Point A to Point B path, but we can't hover over one node at the bottom of the tree and cycle through all possible paths to it and unlock all of those at once.

Probably because GOOGLE has thousands of programmers who get paid allot more than PGI programmers.

[Mycroft000]

Yes, but hovering over a node at the top of an activated tree does show all of the nodes that will be deactivated when you deactivate that specific node.

[MovinTarget]

W E N D I G O, on 22 May 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Might be a little late to the party but have a question: isn't the HXP the same as the old Mech XP? I have just encountered a Mech in my arsenal which was fully mastered (and used beyond that) and now when I check in the game client after this patch it states it has like 330 HXP? I also checked my profile page recorded stats and it states that particular chassis has earned more than 57K XP in matches it was used.

Is that a bug or did I miss some essential information?

You should look at HSP, not HXP... these are the Historical Skill Points that equate to the # of skills you mastered in the old system.

Mastered = 91 HSP
Elited = 57 HSP

Your HSP will be multiplied by the # of copies you own of that variant. Be careful not to "cash in" more HSP than you need on a mech if you want to uses some on other copies of that variant.





If you are looking to avoid using cbills, use up your HSP on mechs, then dip into GSP, same way you used use XP and GXP.

HXP, GXP, and XP all require cbills to create skill points.

Edited by MovinTarget, 22 May 2017 - 04:24 PM.

[KingKickAss85]

My biggest issue with the whole skill maze is this:

Why is everything in the firepower tree {LT-MOB-25}-blocked in one way or another? Couldn't things be separated out into columns for range, velocity, cooldown, etc and you just choose what you want from there? I don't need or want range on every mech I try to spec out and sometimes velocity is not needed. Yes I am salty about how this was rolled out and I do think it is a little broken right now, but I can get over that. With some effort and feedback, the skill tree can be great. I feel it should have been implemented AFTER the Civil War update as we have no idea how all the new weapons and equipment will even function under the new system.

I can promise this though, like all other major patches and updates, this is far from over and I can't help but feel like the inevitable NERF BAT is just hovering over us waiting to play whack-a-mole with whatever gets deemed OP because of this skill tree debacle. Maybe in a couple months I'll resume playing, but until the dumpster fire gets put out, I'm going on hiatus. If I had any pre-purchases pending, I would cancel and ask for a refund as a form of protest. Glad I haven't spent any money here in 6 months. Don't be sheeple and demand more accountability and better thought out updates from our overseers.

[MovinTarget]

I've skilled up a few dozen mechs over the past week, it really does get easier. I can't say it's intuitive but it gets easier lol...

[Kael Posavatz]

MovinTarget, on 22 May 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I know somebody was complaining about the unnecessary torso skills for Urbies and I had to laugh... I'd eat a couple of less-useful skills to make a beastmode trashcan any day...

It may have been me you were thinking of, but I wasn't complaining about unnecessary torso skills, I was ridiculing the existence of a node that would somehow give my trashcan rotation in excess of 360 degrees.

(still looking for those missing degrees btw)

[MovinTarget]

Kael Posavatz, on 22 May 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

It may have been me you were thinking of, but I wasn't complaining about unnecessary torso skills, I was ridiculing the existence of a node that would somehow give my trashcan rotation in excess of 360 degrees.

(still looking for those missing degrees btw)

If you rotate more than 360 deg, the map starts spinning with you...

[NocturnalBeast]

MovinTarget, on 22 May 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

If you rotate more than 360 deg, the map starts spinning with you...

[Jody Von Jedi]

Ed Steele, on 22 May 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Death Blossom!

I'm overwhelmed by this patch. Tried to get my favorite mech back in spec to what it was before, but there are too many useless nodes standing in the way. Frustrated!?!

[MovinTarget]

Jody Von Jedi, on 23 May 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Death Blossom!

I'm overwhelmed by this patch. Tried to get my favorite mech back in spec to what it was before, but there are too many useless nodes standing in the way. Frustrated!?!

I've been telling my unit-mates to start with less-favorite mechs to get a feel for the tree. Unless the mech in question was insanely quirked (and yes I know some were), it may be a matter of adjusting expectations. Yes, I know that sucks if you had the *perfect* loadout, but at the same time we all know that the nerf bat is ever-present so there is no guarantee anything thing we liked will stay the way it is...

Also, depending on the tree, there are usually a couple of different paths to get to the Speed Tweak/Radar Derp/ Seismic- type skills. you may find one path provides better ancillary benefits for your mech than another...

[Genesis23]

is there anyone who can confirm if the armor- or structure-quirks react to the nodes as well? or do the corresponding nodes only affect base armor and base structure? because that could make an immense difference on some mechs.

short calculating example without any specific mech in mind, just to clarify my question:

30 armor + node bonus 10% = 33 armor

30 armor + 10 armor quirk = 40 armor, +node bonus 10% = 44 armor

Edited by Genesis23, 23 May 2017 - 05:34 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Genesis23, on 23 May 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

is there anyone who can confirm if the armor- or structure-quirks react to the nodes as well? or do the corresponding nodes only affect base armor and base structure? because that could make an immense difference on some mechs.

short calculating example without any specific mech in mind, just to clarify my question:

30 armor + node bonus 10% = 33 armor

30 armor + 10 armor quirk = 40 armor, +node bonus 10% = 44 armor

I *think* quirks and skills are calculated independently and then added in:

(Base Armor) + (Base Armor * Armor Quirk) + (Base Armor * Armor Skill) = total armor

Edited by MovinTarget, 23 May 2017 - 06:49 AM.

[Horseman]

MovinTarget, on 22 May 2017 - 04:34 AM, said:

I had to laugh when you accused PGI of actively stealing range from lurms to give it to energy weapons.

If you maxxed out range on the skill tree your lrms will EXCEED 1000m,

With a range module, they went to ~1100m before the patch.

Quote

Last question, if LRMs have been nerfed so badly, THEN WHY HAS THERE BEEN AN APPARENT INCREASE IN LRMS IN GAME?!?!?

Because there's less Radar Derp going around.

[MovinTarget]

Horseman, on 23 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

With a range module, they went to ~1100m before the patch.
Because there's less Radar Derp going around.

After the patch, with skills I think you can get roughly 1050, so 50m lost... that's what >5% max range loss?

Also to get that extra 50m you wanted, you'd have to have the range module for each LRM size you equip... but if you have a mixed set due to pod/component space issues, you had to either bring a range module for each sized LRM weapon or they would not all be similarly ranged.

Now they all get affected by the same skill so I wouldn't even call that a wash but a win for the skill tree.

...Or if you decided to change your LRM15s to LRM20s... now you need to skill up/buy an LRM20 range module (and cooldown too). So ultimately many of these skills are more flexible than modules and *FAR* more generic in application.

And for clarification, I have no problems with groups capitalizing on LRMs by bring their force multipliers like TAG/NARC/CAP/ETC...

My curiosity is using this insane range in QP play where it is unrealistic to expect your teammates to be looking the right way, let alone lock targets.

Edited by MovinTarget, 23 May 2017 - 07:05 AM.