15 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Both Heat Containment and Cool Run are getting nerfed down to 15 and 10% respectively. The former will give you 4.5 more heat capacity and the latter is inferior to 8% heat gen located in the Firepower skill tree, which coincidentally has better filler skill nodes.

Thoughts?

[Fox With A Shotgun]

If your mech is heatsink-starved, i.e. light mechs, then having heat containment and the heatgen from firepower actually adds up quite a bit. Picture having 2x ERPPC at around 7.50 heat/sec generation if at 100% utilisation, and the difference it makes when you have 20% off that. 1.50 heat/sec is an extra 10 CDHS worth of cooling. Totally worth it when you can't cram any more tonnage in.

Arguably, it's worth more than the survivability tree for the same reason. If we ignore the heat capacity issue, 10 DHS is effectively an extra 10 tons and 20 crits worth of equipment that you're packing out of nowhere. An extra ~60 armor is only a paltry 2 tons of savings. I for one will be looking forward to having -33% heat gen on my 2 PPCs.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 16 May 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[kapusta11]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 16 May 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

If your mech is heatsink-starved, i.e. light mechs, then having heat containment and the heatgen from firepower actually adds up quite a bit. Picture having 2x ERPPC at around 7.50 heat/sec generation if at 100% utilisation, and the difference it makes when you have 20% off that. 1.50 heat/sec is an extra 10 CDHS worth of cooling. Totally worth it when you can't cram any more tonnage in.

Arguably, it's worth more than the survivability tree for the same reason. If we ignore the heat capacity issue, 10 DHS is effectively an extra 10 tons and 20 crits worth of equipment that you're packing out of nowhere. An extra ~60 armor is only a paltry 2 tons of savings. I for one will be looking forward to having -33% heat gen on my 2 PPCs.

Dunno where you take your numbers (20%, 10 extra DHS).

Here's 2 ER PPC Nova with 18 DHS
Heat/s: 7
Dissipation/s: 3.2

Cool run + Heat containment
Heat/s: 7
Dissipation/s: 3.52 (2.1 DHS worth of dissipation)
Ratio: 1.99 (actual cooling efficiency, lower is better)
Additonal heat cap: 4.5

8% Heat gen
Heat/s: 6.44 (3.7 DHS worth of dissipation)
Dissipation/s: 3.2
Ratio: 2.0
Heat saved per alpha: 2.24



So 8% heat gen equals to both Cool Run and Heat Containment combined AND it is located in Firepower skill tree, not gated behind useless skill nodes.

Cool run is better the closer your dissipation to the amount of heat you generate. 8%heat gen is better if you generate substantially more heat than you can dissipate.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

kapusta11, on 16 May 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

Dunno where you take your numbers (20%, 10 extra DHS).

Here's 2 ER PPC Nova with 18 DHS
Heat/s: 7
Dissipation/s: 3.2

Cool run + Heat containment
Heat/s: 7
Dissipation/s: 3.52 (2.1 DHS worth of dissipation)
Ratio: 1.99 (actual cooling efficiency, lower is better)
Additonal heat cap: 4.5

8% Heat gen
Heat/s: 6.44 (3.7 DHS worth of dissipation)
Dissipation/s: 3.2
Ratio: 2.0
Heat saved per alpha: 2.24



So 8% heat gen equals to both Cool Run and Heat Containment combined AND it is located in Firepower skill tree, not gated behind useless skill nodes.

Cool run is better the closer your dissipation to the amount of heat you generate. 8%heat gen is better if you generate substantially more heat than you can dissipate.

Oh wait, my bad. Read cool run as being -x% heat gen reduction as opposed to -x% heat dissipation increase.

Yeah, if that's the case, then heat gen reduction is substantially better when heat generated is high. It doesn't matter about the ratio of cooling vs heat generated, since the benefit gained scales linearly with the amount of weapons you're packing. Cool run is better when heat dissipation is high, irrespective of heat generation.
Still, I think for heatsink-starved mechs, it might be worth it to run both. Though of course heat gen reduction always takes priority as usually heat generation is much, much larger than heat dissipation.

If I take the 2PPC - 14 DHS build of a KFX (7 true + 7 poor), this is (7 * 0.20 + 7 * 0.15 = 2.45 heat/sec) dissipation, versus 7.00 heat/sec generation. Taking all coolrun nodes thus is worth 0.245 heat/sec heat dissipation, or approximately 1.63 DHS. Hill Climb might actually be worth taking, but otherwise...ehh...Improved Gyros? I'd rather have the edible gyro instead of the stuff that makes my cockpit rock less. Heat dissipation on 7.00 heat/sec, however, is 0.08 * 7.00 = 0.56 heat/sec, which is 3.6 DHS worth of cooling.

Combined, the two of them would provide about 5.2 DHS worth of additional cooling. Firepower tree is, without a doubt, the more useful one - there's no argument here about the usefulness of +% range and +% projectile velocity. So I suppose the conclusion is whether or not the additional nodes would be worth dumping into operations, versus any of the other trees. Mobility would be a strong contender for the extra skill nodes for lighter mechs, while heavier ones would probably prefer the survival tree.

That being said, the previous way that Cool Run worked also boosted Cool Shots, as it actually boosted the 18 heat/sec dissipation from a CS 9x9 / CS 18 by however much the cool run was for. I wonder if this will be true with the coming skill tree?

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 16 May 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

Current heat containment bonus only works on the base 30 heat capacity. Doesn't work on heat sinks. Will the new heat containment do the same?

[kapusta11]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:

Current heat containment bonus only works on the base 30 heat capacity. Doesn't work on heat sinks. Will the new heat containment do the same?

Would be OP if it does.

[SmokedJag]

If you run a hot 'Mech, everything helps.

'Mechs that rarely or never have dangerous heat problems (Gauss centered builds, LRM boats etc.) can skip the tree.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Operations tree is certainly the least valuable tree to put points into. It has some useful stuff, but thats for your leftover points, you're not going to crank this tree. iMO

[Cy Mitchell]

For some of my pure Laser Vomit builds, I will invest in both the operation heat nodes and the weapon heat nodes. For mixed builds, I will probably only invest in the weapon nodes.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

One thing about heat containment: if it raises the shitdown threshold does it raise the heat damage threshold as well? Or is it like a permanent override and it allows the mech to take heat damage?
(If the latter, it would be fairly useless in may opinion -- since you cannot shut it off.)

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:

Current heat containment bonus only works on the base 30 heat capacity. Doesn't work on heat sinks. Will the new heat containment do the same?

You sure about that?

[Blackhound]

The only place I use Operations is on my 42 heatsink joke Assault. I can alpha and I'm cool again before the weapons recharge.

Otherwise it's just too big of a waste.

Edit: And then I notice this is a necro.

Edited by Blackhound, 12 June 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 12 June 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

You sure about that?

Pre-new skill tree skills did not affect heatsinks. I am sure about that.

[chucklesMuch]

I seldom if ever use operations anymore. Other trees seem more beneficial

[Weeny Machine]

kapusta11, on 15 May 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

Both Heat Containment and Cool Run are getting nerfed down to 15 and 10% respectively. The former will give you 4.5 more heat capacity and the latter is inferior to 8% heat gen located in the Firepower skill tree, which coincidentally has better filler skill nodes.

Thoughts?

Where was that posted? I can't find any info about changes

[Pur]

ScrapIron Prime, on 16 May 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

Operations tree is certainly the least valuable tree to put points into.

Lol, I don't even...