342 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

IDK, I tried to streamline my post and failed utterly, so IDK if there is a less visually overwhelming way to do this, lol.

Probably not. Did you read my detailed guide? And the abridged version? It doesn't get more detailed or streamlined. Lol.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

Probably not. Did you read my detailed guide? And the abridged version? It doesn't get more detailed or streamlined. Lol.

Yeah.

I do wonder, if it may indeed be too much for doing hundreds of times. I mean I have hundreds of mechs... but I also honestly don't touch most of them any more (and really should do a spring cleaning I guess), and of course, with lots of experience it was pretty quick to figure out and go.

But if you are a Noob, or even just an OCD POkeMecher...... eh. It is a lot.

Bit of a catch 22, because the very facet that makes it a bit of a chore, is also what gives me the customization capability I like.

I would have to say that the best approach is to make some basic Skill Web Maps by Role and Weight Class (A light Scout and medium Scout won't necessarily Web up the same, ditto a medium LRMboat vs a heavy, etc), as general guidelines.....

Then let people tweak and modify from the baseline to their style or the chassis particular strengths. Which of course the sheer number and potential diversity of variants makes difficult, without also, essentially labeling each variant in the Store and Mechlab, toward their intended Role.

[The6thMessenger]

[cazidin]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Yeah.

I do wonder, if it may indeed be too much for doing hundreds of times. I mean I have hundreds of mechs... but I also honestly don't touch most of them any more (and really should do a spring cleaning I guess), and of course, with lots of experience it was pretty quick to figure out and go.

But if you are a Noob, or even just an OCD POkeMecher...... eh. It is a lot.

Bit of a catch 22, because the very facet that makes it a bit of a chore, is also what gives me the customization capability I like.

I would have to say that the best approach is to make some basic Skill Web Maps by Role and Weight Class (A light Scout and medium Scout won't necessarily Web up the same, ditto a medium LRMboat vs a heavy, etc), as general guidelines.....

Then let people tweak and modify from the baseline to their style or the chassis particular strengths. Which of course the sheer number and potential diversity of variants makes difficult, without also, essentially labeling each variant in the Store and Mechlab, toward their intended Role.

Right. That was one of the goals of my, admittedly, lengthy post. To offer a general guide, and explain what does/doesn't work and why it does/doesn't work.

[Wildstreak]

After some thought, I think I came up with an original one as opposed to the ones we expect that focus on dishing out the most damage. Does this mean there might be some role warfare in MWO?

(Tarogato link in title, Kitlaan links in section titles, both have all Nodes)

The BIT Guide

BIT = Basic Intelligence Tree

This is considered the bare minimum investment needed to fulfill certain roles in game with free SP left over used based on the variant Mech BIT is applied to, usually fast and/or Light Mechs. Might have application to certain heavier Mechs but very few if any.

BIT users are designed to benefit the team overall more often than the individual and only few are needed, usually 1-2 but never more than 3, on any team. While weapons are important, since weapon loadout of smaller Mechs is less, they do not need to always focus so much into that compared to most Nodes chosen for the BIT.

Roles it can benefit include:
Scout - allows best intelligence gathering that can be relayed to team.
Capper - adding 5 more nodes to max Capture Assist for Conquest/Assault matches.
Caller - gathers information on target Mechs quicker to allow callers not only call out targets for focused fire but also weak locations on target.
Striker - designed for surgical strikes. Move in, attack, flee focusing on doing the most damage in one brief moment at the right spot on target.

Only 3 trees are considered to have necessary Nodes for BIT.

Mobility/Agility - 32 Points
As someone said, armor tree buffs are one use items but for fast / Light Mechs, speed and mobility buffs are 'armor' with more than one use. The ability to dodge shots and move across open terrain from cover to cover are critical to smaller, fragile Mechs and increase the odds of shots missing the user. This Node selection is designed to maximize mobility to its fullest possible and has the greatest investment of SP due to tree size and Nodes needed.

All Nodes of the following types are taken:
Kinetic Burst
Hard Brake
Anchor Turn
Speed Tweak

Along the way some of the 3 Torso Nodes are gained but the movement ones are the most important, the faster and more agile the BIT user is, the better chance of shots missing him.

Sensor Systems - 18
Main focus here is Intelligence specifically the collecting of data on the enemy with a minor in survivability.

Maximum Sensor Range Nodes get information to the user sooner over greater distance.

Target Information Gathering maximized for both the user to know faster where to place his small amount of damage on target for best effect and for callers who want to not only focus a target but a certain area on said enemy. Why aim for the CT when they have a much weaker Leg?

Radar Deprivation to full to increase potential stealth operations of non-ECM Mechs, 6 Nodes can be given up for the 2 ECM Nodes on Mechs that have it leaving 4 SP free for use elsewhere, appears to be debate on which is more useful. The 6 Nodes ECM Mechs may not need are:
2 Radar Deprivation on the right side of the tree
3 Nodes to reach them
Top Radar Deprivation on the left.

Only 1 Seismic for assisting those moments you are near enemies with cover between you and them so can safely tell the team roughly how many are near you, also useful for those map spots like HPG center and Crimson platform where you and enemies are on different levels.

Miscellaneous/Auxiliary - 6
Only needed Nodes are the ones benefiting the only Intelligence Consumable in the game, UAVs. This Node selection allows 2 UAVs for placement either at 2 different times during a mtch or locations when the enemy is spread over a large area. Third slot is to allow the Consumable of choice, Coolant or Strike, while not related to intel the first may be needed based on weapons, the second can be surgically placed on the enemy through proper stealth operations. If you feel you can afford some more Nodes, you can take 4-5 down the right side for a second Strike.

For Conquest & Assault matches, Capture Assist can be maximized taking one Node of either Enhanced Coolshot or Advanced Salvos depending on third Consumable used plus all 4 Capture Nodes. This would be better in Faction Play where I hear (I have not tried FP4) you know what mode you are playing before Mech selection compared to QP queues that you have no idea until voting is done but still possible there too. Could sacrifice some UAV Nodes to get Capture ones.

Total SP used - 56
Leftover SP - 35 based on variant applied to wherever user wants

Non-meta examples of using the BIT and Mechs I have used before.

Locust-3V scout/capper

Tree Link 1 and Link 2

Still probably the worst Locust, it can have use as one of the best cappers in the game running at Ludicrous Speed, very minor built-in torso armor buffs better than other Locusts and faster MG RoF if they are used though some would focus on the Energy weapon(s).

With a single ERLL and a pair of MGs for backup, it can also function as a scout. This build started with the BIT then added:
All Capture Assist Nodes.
Auxiliary/Miscellaneous Nodes to have 2 UAVs and 2 Strikes both with enhanced abilities, it can time when and where to place them.
Weapon Nodes focusing on Range, Cooldown and Duration without taking anything deemed unnecessary.

Mist Lynx, the poor Clanner's Raven scout/sniper

Tree Link 1 and Link 2


Less tonnage that dual laser Raven-3L's, it still manages some range with dual ERMLs and given the small amount of weapons that do not require close combat, has greater flexibility to function in BIT roles. Except for a very few skilled players using certain loadouts, a Mist Lynx is not going to rack up a lot of damage except by farming AFKs/Discons that I shamelessly have done. Only built in quirks are AMS Range and RoF and Rate of Heat Loss.

Unlike the Locust, this one skipped adding Nodes to the Auxiliary/Miscellaneous tree instead adding:
Maximum Vent Calibration plus the initial Heat Shielding from the Jump tree.
Removed 3 Radar Deprivation and a Target Decay from Sensor tree for the 2 ECM Nodes.
Has the same Weapons tree as the Locust but added 5 more Cooldown and another Laser Duration Nodes.

Edited by Wildstreak, 20 May 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Bud Crue, on 19 May 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

I've gotten the word out in the TS and mentioned it to others to spread the word, but beyond that...what else can I possibly do?

Dropped notice on Reddit and Steam, will try to pass on to YouTubers, maybe they could
- Contribute, a couple YouTubers are active on Forums
- Discuss in videos
- Try out builds, a couple have done build suggestions by watchers before.

Jay Leon Hart, on 19 May 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Do we need a new contest?
"Mech Pack giveaway for collating and streamlining the skill tree contest entries"

Might need a whole website with links to relevant posts.

[Gyrok]

Bud Crue, on 16 May 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

EDIT: SEE:
https://tarogato-mwo..._skill_planner/

Okay, here we go.

Giving away some mech packs.

Now I know the meta folks will have the idealized node paths figured out and shared informally anyway (and some have already done so), but I may as well try and incentivize them to get this done AND share with the rest of us.

So here's what I want:

Screen shots (or detailed descriptions) from folks of generalized node paths for different types of builds and your own explanation as to why you think your particular path is the best use of nodes for that general type of build. I won't turn away mech specific builds but try to keep this as broad as possible.

Try to pretend that this game has new players and that these node paths would be a way to guide such new players into a general application for the type of play/mech you will entitle your paths (e.g Fast Heavy Brawler, PPFLD Jump Sniper, Mixed Build Medium). Bonus points for giving non meta mechs (mixed weapons crap IS mechs for example) and players thereof a reason to believe that their mechs aren't trash now.

You do not (and probably should not) need to use all the nodes, since these are going to be general node paths specifically geared toward making general builds as effective as possible so having some left over nodes available for a bit of mech specific customization is fine.

5-10 basic mech packs will be divided up between the best entrants. I am leaving a range because honestly I don't foresee there being more than a few decent paths, but I would love to be blown away by your brilliance at coming up with a variety of node paths that are actually useful. Winners will be determined based on strength of your argument/rationale for the path you put forth as determined by commentary from the community and myself, so make sure to explain why you think your path works best for the type of mech you are attempting to build.

I'll give it until the next patch notes are released to determine winners.

Have at it.

Edit: I said above that I'd give it a month. I don't think we can wait that long... look at the threads, people are desperate and some are even quitting out of the frustration of this thing. Even if you don't have time for a full post or explanation, please post your ideas...especially you truly skilled players who really understand the game. Some folks are desperate for guidance.

http://www.cwdg.us/f...261380#39314140

[Deathlike]

https://tarogato-mwo...4c-cda10eb72f10

2 CERPPC Hunchback-IIC-A: HBK-IIC-A

A little lazy on giving you pics, but here's the basics...

Firepower (28): Get all relevant heat gen nodes (minus the extreme sides for the last heat gen nodes) and velocity nodes (Velocity 5 is buried in garbage).

Survival (21): Armor Hardening is actually MORE useful than Skeletal Density due to armor being DOUBLE the natural value of internal structure and given that the percentage of Skeletal Density is not as significant (for Skeletal Density to be better, it would have to be DOUBLE the value of Armor Hardening's bonus - you know, math). This starts to change when you're in heavier mechs, but for a Hunchback - the value in armor is there. Also, more internal structure also means more chances for equipment/weapons in that section to be destroyed as armor does not deal with this.


Mobility (0): If you are any good at poptarting, mobility is primarily needed to get from point A to point B... and you give a damn about range from good positioning. You will not be sorry you didn't need agility or even speed tweak (you're not running a marathon. Other builds will need it, but this one truly doesn't need it.

Jump Jets (0): Avoid like the plague. You are better off investing actual tonnage into JJs instead of this. Even if you invested this in a crack-JJ mech like the Viper, it just means you hover in the air longer... like a pinata. Noone likes to be that mech pinata.

Operations (20): Coolrun and Heat Containment are near mandatory for this mech despite already having invested in firepower heat gen nodes. Making the mech cool is your first priority.

Sensors (19): Radar Derp and Seismic are still useful... the former being still strong (especially in public play with LRMs) with the latter nerfed in range a bit, but still useful for paying attention to what's coming behind you (unless you have terrible battlefield awareness). Not required if you don't need the extra crutches.

Auxiliary (1): +1 Consumable is worth the investment. After that, it's up to you. Chances are investiments in Coolshots or Airstikes will improve your overall offensive output or the occasional UAV to spot people behind you... but that's player preference.

In summation, there are a lot of trees... many of them I've seen so far that are awful.. and some are spot on (in places). This tree that I put together wasn't all my doing (a unitmate is doing most of the work, I planned the firepower tree myself though, because why not (I needed it rebuilt).

Bleh, these trees are awful and are still easily min-maxed.

[Agent 0range]

Hi,

I am going to put up my Orion builds and explain them they are designed for team play and work very well for mixed weapon load outs, Similiar load outs would work for any mixed AC, missile, laser builds focused on tanking.

FIREPOWER



In the fire power tree the primary focus is to get to the HEAT GEN nodes as quickly as possible while picking up relevant useful nodes, HEAT GEN nodes are locked behind RANGE and COOLDOWN unless you go through specialist nodes.
The above basic tree can be modified to increase missile or AC depending on the load out of the Mech. Reducing Heat gen will keep you fighting longer.

Collecting all of the HEAT GEN nodes would be too expensive in points as we will want some Survival, Mobility and Operations 9.75% is good enough from a 10.5% maximum.

The range nodes are really a gate here while range is still useful any way to avoid taking range nodes while moving down to Heat gen is advisable.

Cooldown is obviously useful but should be traded for heat gen if possible

Velocity nodes are recommended as a 10% velocity bonus will give easier shots with AC and SRM

LASER duration is not recommended as normally a an AC + SRM build will be carrying some Med lasers or Small Pulse as a tertiary weapon.

Some variations I use with the 10 spare points.
ONI-K



OMI-M



SURVIVAL

The survival tree points are focused on getting as much armour percentage as possible without spending excess point to get them all. An alternative structure focus tree is shown as well for use with Mechs that have large structure quirks rather than armour

Armour Focus



Structure Focus



MOBILITY


The mobility tree focus is primarily torso twist speed while gaining some speed tweak the reason behind this is most mechs have lost considerable amounts of torso speed especially heavies and assaults some speed tweak to maintian a reasonable ground speed and not get left behind on a push.




OPERATIONS

This is a standard operations build used by many mechs to get maximum capacity and cooling. The only real choice is imp gyro 4 or speed retention 3




AUXILARY
One point is spent to gain the extra consumable being able to carry a coolshot and a UAV is very handy.


OVERVIEW

The build is primarily about heat management, damage soaking and mobility. It is designed for Heavy mixed weapon brawlers with armour or structure quirks, the combination of sustained fire, durability and mobility will allow this type mech to lead a push and survive first contact, you know the moment when you push around the hill and everyone shoots at you. It works best in a team where you team mates can follow in and help crush the enemy. If playing solo in quick play you should stay with your main group and either lead a push if you can communicate the idea or lead a counter push. The build also does well corner poking at close range as it can sustain multiple hit and still return fire.


There are 10 points free which i personally use to further buff the firepower but could be used on sensors for those people who like to have some radar derp. if you shose to further buff Firepower make sure you stay near cover to avoid LRMS

Mechs which this build will help Orions, Catapahacts Dragon, Victors, Zeus etc. If you like playing non meta build like my self using AC, SRM and lasers I hope this helps you.

About my self I am a member of HHOD and started playing when founders were let into beta and have been running 'bad' builds for ever I love my Orions even when they were considered trash. So the chance to really buff what they are good at making them viable for more people is what this is about. Good luck have fun and become the Master of Orion

Edited by Agent 0range, 20 May 2017 - 12:31 AM.

[Wattila]

Agent 0range, on 19 May 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

Hi,

I am going to put up my Orion builds and explain them they are designed for team play and work very well for mixed weapon load outs, Similiar load outs would work for any mixed AC, missile, laser builds focused on tanking.

Hi, like the build, really well thought out. Some thoughts in general.

Survival: The nodes in the wings are heavily gated, it's a trap. I'm still on the fence about whether it's ever worth getting them. Structure quirked mechs should also get all the armor nodes within each reach, since they're very cheap at that point.

Mobility: Like how you've skilled the tree. I usually try to find 26 points to get all torso speed nodes and full speed tweak, but your path is definitely more efficient at 17 nodes.

Operations: Is it worth 5 points to get the last two cool run nodes, I don't think it is in general. Most builds generate much more heat than they can dissipate, so the main issue becomes how long you can keep firing before overheating. I think 15 points is probably best unless you have a good case for requiring every bit of heat dissipation.

Still debating picking up the rightmost magazine node as you have to take two range nodes for it, could get a bit more cooldown and heat gen instead. Decisions...

Edited by Wattila, 20 May 2017 - 07:35 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Edited front page. Its now an index of entries.

[Unnatural Growth]

Tarogato, on 17 May 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm kinda tempted to have a go at this, but I don't want to play the game anymore with this skill maze in it, so no point in "competing" for a mechpack.

Also, you're basically buying 5-10 mechpacks because of the skill tree? You're supporting this ****?

Aw, C'mon man, what's wrong with Sidoku Warrior Online?



Thanks Bud and all for the thread topic and the input. I'm trying to wade through it all, but with very limited "play time", I'm spending it trying to figure out this damn new tree, instead of actually playing the damn game.

Very frustrating, but am appreciating the info.

[Onimusha shin]

I'm not sure how to structure this as I'm not sure if Bud wants a single pathing or multiple ones to help players across the spectrum. Let me know if I'm doing it wrong Bud.

I created various pathings catering to different build types as shown below.
The link to the pathings for the various builds is here.

I'll try to explain briefly and expand later when I have time to write up more.

Key notes:

• A lot of credit goes to Gman who runs metamechs.com who founded the basis for most of the budget/middling paths
  
• Priorities for Armor skills as those increase survivability. Switch to structure skills (skeletal density) if you're 85tons or heavier or if you have high structure quirks. Details explained here.
  
• Survival tree nodes are swappable between Armor Hardening and Skeletal Density. Most of my Armor nodes featured in the pathings below can be swapped out with Skeletal Density ones like this here.
  
• I try to prioritise HeatGen over Cooldown and get as much CoolRun & HeatContain as possible because, except for bracket and pure dakka builds, you will often get heat capped in a firefight.

Generalist build
This pathing focuses on maximising dmg output by maxing weapon range and more powerful arty/airstrike consumables. Mostly general skills that apply to most weapon systems in a bracket build. Generic mobility quirks to improve survivability, which new players really should focus on, ie. torso-twist shielding.


LRM support
This pathing ignores survival tree (except for AMS overload) for better weapon, ops and sensory skills, needed to keep locks. But play well and be situationally aware. Hanging back without team's support is never advised and the shorter travel time (Velocity skills) for your LRMs will be beneficial to your contribution, as well as noticing if target ducked behind cover. Speed skills aren't necessary either unless you're playing LRMs in an assault, which means you're playing the game wrong with that kind of tonnage wasted.


Laser vomit
Still easily one of the easiest meta, I focus on lower laser burns (unless you're an SPL boat like ACH/VPR/FS9-A), better heat dissipation (more HeatGen than Cooldown and as much CoolRun and HeatContain as I can get). Sensor skills (TgtInfo) help improve your awareness of what open components to burn down.


SRM brawler
Armor/structure, missile spread, mobility & seismic, are key for this build type to succeed. You need to have fast torso twist and the ability to snap-shoot, twist-shield and repeat to increase your survivability. Recommended for twitchy players who came over from a FPS-style game.


Ballistics sniper/support
Paths apply to UAC, LBX, autocannon and even PPC-Gauss snipers. Max out your projectile velocity to reduce projectile travel times and thus improve accuracy. Shuffle HeatGen for LBX Spread skills or UAC Jam (not advisable unless stacking on existing jam reduction quirks) or advanced zoom, room enough for you to add on lasers to your actual build as HeatGen is slightly better than Cooldown.

I ignored Gauss Charge skills because I find them useless and redundant for general play, as you should spend less time micromanaging weapons but focus more on interpreting enemy movements in order to reposition yourself if needed.


EDIT: Added an alternate Structure skills path for mechs with plenty of structure quirks here

Edited by Onimusha shin, 23 May 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[cazidin]

Hurray! I was included in the index! Thanks Bud. I made an abridged version that's a lot easier to digest too.

[Wattila]

Onimusha shin, on 20 May 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

I'm not sure how to structure this as I'm not sure if Bud wants a single pathing or multiple ones to help players across the spectrum. Let me know if I'm doing it wrong Bud.

I created various pathings catering to different build types as shown here:

I think this is a good idea. The skill tree should be seen as a jigsaw puzzle rather than a collection of individual nodes. There are generally only a few optimal full and budget options in each tree you can mix and match according to your preference. I updated a previous post to include both full and budget paths with certain goals in mind (max torso twist speed, full laser range & duration, etc).

[Agent 0range]

Wattila, on 20 May 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

Hi, like the build, really well thought out. Some thoughts in general.

Survival: The nodes in the wings are heavily gated, it's a trap. Probably not worth getting those.

Mobility: Like how you've skilled the tree. I usually try to find 26 points to get all torso speed nodes and full speed tweak, but that path is definitely almost as good for 17 points and less gates.

Operations: Is it worth 5 points to get the last two cool run nodes, I don't think it is in general. Most builds generate much more heat than they can dissipate, so the main issue becomes how long you can keep firing before overheating. I think 15 points is probably best unless you have a good case for requiring every bit of heat dissipation.

EDIT: Adjusted my ON-1V build based on yours: https://kitlaan.gitl...2982a&s=Weapons

Still debating picking up the rightmost magazine node as you have to take two range nodes for it, could get a bit more cooldown and heat gen instead. Decisions...

Thanks for the feed back

The gated nodes on the survival tree are still good if you are focusing armour especially if you are just going up one side the idea is to get as much armour percentage for use on mechs with armour quirks so their relative value is higher and worth paying the gate tax, this isnt true for all mechs or ones with minor armour quirks for arms and legs etc.

Regarding operations you are right there are a number of level you can use it at the minimum i pick is 9 points to get 9% cap and 4% cooling. The reason i maxed it out is because I use the build in FW and on a push max damage possible is really important.

I have used the improved coolshots mainly on my laser vomit build carrying 2 coolshots worth 27 cooling is great.

[jjm1]

SNV-1 'ULTRANOVA'

AN ALL PURPOSE MECH DISINTEGRATOR



The premise here is simple. Taking the Supernova the max. Its all about the lasers and having the durability to tank some hits. Out of the box the SNV-1 has nice structure bonuses and a 5% ER-duration bonus. What it doesnt have is speed, and nothing is going to save it in that department so we wont bother. The SNV-1s greatness comes from the fact everything is in its arms. With unlocked arms and steady aim you can drill a hole in anything thats within C-Med range and you'll never have to aim with your torso.

The build itself goes straight for maximum ER-laser boating for the quirk, the range and the weight savings. It does 64 points of damage with zero ghost heat and you'll usually get two back to back alphas out of that. This is an assault killer. The SNVs max engine is a 325. To maximise the total heat sinks I'm using a standard 325 and stripping armor across the board.

Weapon groups are split left and right for poking and group 3 is just the 2 ERLs.

SKILL TREE:

FIREPOWER.
I want all the range, heat efficiency and duration I can get. Cooldown is always nice to have, but we are too hot to use it that efficiently so the cooldown nodes I wasn't forced to take are left out.

SURVIVAL.
Going for an efficient selection of structure and armor by sacrificing some of the nodes sitting behind 'tax' nodes.

MOBILITY.
No investment. You'll still be assault slow if you maxed this out.

JUMP JETS.
lol.

OPERATIONS.
Again, to focus on maximum heat efficiency I go for all the heat containment and coolrun nodes that exist and absorb the tax nodes.

SENSORS.
Just a single 7% bonus to Target Info Gathering. Radar dep and seismic are great, but this build is optimised to destroy, not avoid. Just be careful where you move.

MISCELLANEOUS
Extra coolshot efficiency and and additional coolshot to P2W your way to victory. If you don't want to blow all your match earnings for some reason. Put these on structure or sensors.

---
Next step. Go ruin some days.

[R Valentine]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

IDK, I tried to streamline my post and failed utterly, so IDK if there is a less visually overwhelming way to do this, lol.

You can't streamline and already inefficient system. That was one of their main goals in creating it. Making it way too hard to min/max/. Unfortunately, they didn't think it through. Systems that are inefficient are more about min/maxing than systems that are. Inefficient systems leave much larger gaps in performance between viable and non-viable builds than an efficient system does. So what you really have is builds that work great and ones that don't work at all, where as efficiently designed skill/upgrade systems allow a much greater degree of nuance, so you have builds that are just ever so slightly better and builds that aren't as good, but still pretty damn good.

[Wattila]

Agent 0range, on 20 May 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Regarding operations you are right there are a number of level you can use it at the minimum i pick is 9 points to get 9% cap and 4% cooling. The reason i maxed it out is because I use the build in FW and on a push max damage possible is really important.

I have used the improved coolshots mainly on my laser vomit build carrying 2 coolshots worth 27 cooling is great.

Mmh, I'd need a very good reason going below 15 nodes, though, the heat containment nodes are just that good imo. Plus hill climb isn't actually that terrible as far as filler goes.

And yeah, the auxiliary tree is super powerful if you don't mind spending some credits. Expect almost every comp build to run at least double strike, and maybe double coolshot depending on build. It's kind of overkill for casual play, though.

[Wattila]

Kiran Yagami, on 20 May 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

You can't streamline and already inefficient system. That was one of their main goals in creating it. Making it way too hard to min/max/. Unfortunately, they didn't think it through. Systems that are inefficient are more about min/maxing than systems that are. Inefficient systems leave much larger gaps in performance between viable and non-viable builds than an efficient system does. So what you really have is builds that work great and ones that don't work at all, where as efficiently designed skill/upgrade systems allow a much greater degree of nuance, so you have builds that are just ever so slightly better and builds that aren't as good, but still pretty damn good.

I can't quite understand what PGI was thinking when designing the tree, though. It's an overly complicated mess for the newbie, and easy for an experienced player to min-max (once people figure out how).

Firepower tree is a huge point sink with low value nodes, I know I still invest too much in it. The laser duration nodes are probably the only ones you'd be crazy not to go for as they help your trades a lot. Honestly, if you're pure dakka the entire tree is probably just nope.

Another tree with hard stats, Survival, is bad for most unquirked mechs, except if you play comp and max it (along with mobility) to keep weapons on your mech a bit longer.

Left side of mobility is super good, with free tonnage waiting at the end thanks to engine desync. Especially important considering how scandalously bad assaults are at twisting now. Should probably just put all the points I invest in firepower here instead.

Jump jets, lol.

Operations. Everyone is just going to max this, probably? And it's not even a bad idea 90% of the time despite all the crappy filler. One tree PGI got right?

Sensors I consider a newbie trap, yet people swear by it, maybe I'm just an idiot, I dunno. 200m seismic for 12 points is good, I think, but nothing else in that tree I'd get excited about (TIG is kinda ok, but meh). 19 points for full radar derp and seismic is a huge opportunity cost considering how situational everything in the tree is. Ironically, the tree is more valuable to lurmboats resulting in an interesting balance situation where every lurmboat has target decay yet no target has radar derp.

Edited by Wattila, 20 May 2017 - 09:12 AM.