Prosperity Park, on 17 December 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:
I don't think any of the Mech factories in the BattleTech universe produce unarmed Mechs and sell them that way... so the idea of scratchbuilding is, as far as I know, non-canon and most likely will not part of MWO.
(Somebody please point-out if this is incorrect, because if there are canon-examples of unarmed Mechs rolling off the production lines and being made available for sale, then this idea might be reasonable)
From the novels, tech readouts and such that I've read:
With pre-existing chassis, like those endlessly produced from the Star League era (which includes all the unseen mechs, btw), have typically been produced in batches. Because so much technology has been lost through the succession wars, it is not easy to produce a new mech, and it takes time to create a variant of an existing mech. If you read the tech readouts, you'll find that they often attribute a variant unique to a certain house.
Here's some examples: The Zues was initially meant to be armed with a PPC in it's laft arm, but there were problems with that, so they went with an autocannon until the factory could figure out the issues and put the PPC back on. So, most of the early production Zeus's had Autocannons, but a majority of them have been produced with PPC's. (From TR: 3025, and Sarna.net) The Zeus is produced soley by Defiance Industries in the Lyran Commonwealth and as of our timeline has not had a lot of variants.
Now, if you bought a stock Zeus brand new from the market, it probably would have a PPC. If you bought a used one, you could find it with an Autocannon or a PPC, or you might find one heavily modified by a particular pilot.
Example Two, from En Garde, book one of the Warrior Trilogy (circa 3020's). House Laio sets up a raid against a training cadre on Kitery. It consists of several lances of Cicadas. They are all armed the same. Likewise, the training cadre are all in Wasps, which are all armed the same. Later in the trilogy, you see Kurita setting up a few raids. There are Panthers
all over the place! They are all armed with an SRM 2, a PPC and jump jets. You see dozens of them in the book. Cicadas are made in Laio territory, and Panthers in the Draconis Combine, so it makes sense that they are equipped as such.
Ranked/named characters... Okay, in all the above situations, there are single examples of other mechs. In the Cicada vs. Wasp fight, the top guy had his own Valkyrie and the top bad guy owned a Rifleman. Both of these were stock, but very importantly, they were owned by the Mechwarrior.
Now, in the Panther vs. Kell Hounds fight, there is a different story all together. The Kurita forces were House forces and the mechwarriors were issued mechs out fo the acadamy. The leaders of those forces often had their own mechs, like the above example. The leader of the Kurita forces had a Stock Warhammer. The Kell Hounds mercenaries, on the other hand, all had their own different mechs. These were almost all, if not all, stock variants. I can think of a Locust, Marauder, Archer, Victor, Catapult, and Wolverine as examples. One of the main characters, Daniel Allard loses his Valkyrie in a battle and becomes 'dispossessed.' A mechwarrior who does not have a mech joins the sad ranks of the dispossessed, and he hopes, he prays that his regiment can give him one of their captured panthers, or even a 'frankensteined' mech made up from spare parts and salvage left-over from future Kell Hounds engagements. Because he's a hero, though, the Kell Hound leadership hooks him up with a hot, new mech just developed the "Wolfhound."
Example Three: Mods. What do you need to modify a single mech? You need a garage with a crane, and a freakin awesome mechanic. You need access to the parts you want to switch out, a rich sponsor, or access to a used mech/part vendor.
Justan Xiang Allard, buys a used mech so he can compete in Solaris VII. Now, it should be noted, he's of a noble family. The Allards have a bit of pull and wealth, so he went to the used mech dealer and bought a Centurion. This Centurion was stock, despite probably being used many times in the arena before, or in war, every time it was repaired, they put the same stuff on the mech once again. Now, his personal mechanic, on his orders, replaced the AC10 with an AC20. This did not seem to cause much of an issue. He also had claws installed on the non-armed hand. I believe they mentioned he had to strip some armor from the gun arm to balance the weight of the AC20, but it was feasable
It must be noted that this mech is famous and unique. It is the Yen-Lo-Wang. Justin surprised his opponent with the AC20, which suggests that even in Solaris, at least at this time, variants are not too common.
SO, how does a mechwarrior become a mechwarrior/get a mech?
1. Mechwarriors at this time are often nobility, and mechs are passed down from generation to generation. Yen-Lo-Wang was passed down to Kai Allard-Laio, used to win the championship in Solaris, then went to war with the Clans. During a lull in the fighting, Yen-Lo-Wang was further modified with NEW technology. It was given a Gauss Rifle to replace the AC20, and I believe it may have had it's lasers replaced with pulse lasers. (It's been awhile.) It must be noted, that Kai was a graduate of an acadamy, and personal friends with Victor Steiner-Davion, himself a prince. Victor had the resources to put into modifying the Yen-Lo-Wang with this new cutting edge technology. Only the richest mercenaries and noble houses would have the resources to pull this off.
2. Goin' to school. Typically well-to-do, smart kids, with families known to be loyal to a house can go to a military academy. IF they test right, they MIGHT be lucky enough to be trained as a mechwarrior and enter into the House military. The mechs they would be assigned were typically whatever the house ordered up for them. Only when they had the rank and clout could they, MAYBE, get a mech of their own choice. Otherwise, mechwarriors would be assigned new mechs only when they worked their way up to a new weight class, or when they lost theirs in battle. IF a mechwarrior was particularly outstanding, or was able to knock out and salvage an enemy mech, he might be awarded the mech as his own property. This would enter him into the royalty (like Knights of old) of a Mechwarrior family. He or she would pass his mech or mechs on to his/her children.
3. Mercenaries. Mercenaries don't have the economy of an entire house to back them up. So they have to rent or own their own facilities. Typically, mechwarriors who have inherited their mechs, or have left the service of a house with their own mech, make up the ranks of mercs. Some mercenary companies have home bases on a planet, or like the Wolf's Dragoons later on, will OWN their own planet (Outreach). Mercenary companies typically own their own dropships, but like others, have to rent space on jumpships to go from system to system with their dropships, aerospace fighters, mechs, infantry, etc... Because mercs do not have access to House military resources, to get more/new mechs, they have to pick them up off the battlefield as salvage and rebuild them - which is common practice - or order up a batch from a mech factory. Even though a merc company may order up a batch of mechs from a factory, they still tend to be all of the same variant - though often these variants are unique to the buyer. It may not be possible to rebuild a salvaged mech up to stock with other cannibalized parts, so they might use the parts they have available, and that's where you'll find some of the most unique mechs out there. HOWEVER, it should be noted, most of these non-stock mechs are COMPROMISES, as opposed to idealized mechs that we normally think of when we drool over mech lab options.
WHY so many stock mechs and not so many custom ones?
Think of mechs like automobiles. It is much, much easier to rebuild or repair a car to stock, because you know that this manifold fits with this engine which is set up to work off this distributor cap. If you put in a new engine, you have to also put in a new suspension - if the engine is significantly more powerful, or weighs more, new battery to start the engine, new transmission, etc... Some things are far easier to modify than others. You can change the shape of a car into all kinds of crazy body shapes and as long as you keep the frame the same, it drives like normal. You can change the wheels out, rims, chrome packages, horn, sound system, interior, etc...
So, my theories on how far customization should go:
A mech chassis is typically mated with a certain sized engine which provides power to the myomer muscles, and the frame (skeleton) is built heavy enough to handle the engine and a typical load of weapons and armor. You aren't going to change that without manufacturing a completely new mech.
However, you could put in how ever many lasers the fusion engine could handle powering. You could put a supercharger on it - MASC, or an extra-light (alluminum block) engine, but that could be tough considering how much space there is to put a larger, if lighter, engine inside the frame/body. You could put on missle launchers and guns, but within reason. Putting an AC20 on a light mech, though MAYBE possible Battletech rules-wise, but I imagine the recoil would spin the torso like a top. Note, the AC10 on the urbanmech. The Urbanmech is VERY slow. Why? because the AC10 is SO BIG that even if it had an engine that could move it like other light mechs, the engine is probably so overtaxed that its all it can do to carry around the weaponry that weighs more than the engine, armor, and chassis itself! Also, the Urbanmech is produces ESPECIALLY to carry the weapons it does and for a very specific purpose. Many may make fun of it, but it's good for what it does. Kill masses of protesters and clear traffic jams on highways.
So, conclusion.
A mech should be able to customize it's weapons, SOME of it's armor in weight, ammo loads, placement of those weapons and ammo, heat sinks, sensors, superchargers and XL engines when they come out and Ferro-Fibrous and other armors when they come out. Like automobiles, as someone says, you can make a pinto LOOK like a corvette, but it's just a pinto with makeup. But if you try to put a corvette engine in a pinto, the pinto's frame will be torn apart in no time by the torque produced by the engine, and the damage to the suspension from making the pinto do what a corvette is designed to do.
Economy and upgrades/modifications?
Well, House forces should get their mechs as if just coming out from the academy. They should have cheap repairs and replacement parts, but would have to work their butts off to get a name for themselves. If they go up a weight class, they could get a new mech, provided by the house, of that weight class. They probably wouldn't have a choice over what they got, as it would be assigned to them. Now, if they got command of a lance or more, they would be able to ask the techs to customize their mechs a bit, or they might be able to keep or trade some of the salvage - off the books, paperwork errors, you know - to save up for buying their own mech. They could probably get a discount if they buy from a contractor already in House. Repairs on said mech would probably be cheap and they could use their meager salary and combat pay bonus to buy stuff from time to time to upgrade or modify it.
Merc companies, the grand garage sale. Mercs will start with a stock mech, handed down to them or previously earned from military service. It might be brand new when they start the game, but they will not have access to the great garage in the sky that regular mechwarriors would have. They would have to buy, scavenge, sell, make deals, whatever to keep their mechs running. As each merc group is unique, it may be that "you keep what you kill" or everything salvaged goes into a great bucket and the merc officers distribute it as they see fit. This may be an equal split, split by the types of mechs the mercs own, by performance scores/kills, or by personal greed. The mechanics COULD modify mechs, but the merc would have to provide the part. Parts on the market would be prohibitively expensive (underground arms dealers), but salvaged parts could be free from kills, traded with other mercs in the company, or whatever. In any case, the further away from stock you modify a mech, the harder it may be to get spare parts and materials. However, while mercs would have the freedom to customize their mechs however they wanted - within reason - it would be a scavenger hunt to do so. You might want to make a PPC boat, but end up with only one PPC, a large laser, and the choice of a couple medium lasers or an autocannon. Maybe not the best choice in the world, but if you didn't have a PPC at all before, now you do! Keep working!
Lone Wolves: Whether they inherited or stole their mech, they work for cash. They probably wouldn't have the crew and resources to salvage stuff they come upon, but they would be the ones with the best access to the black market. (they need each other!) They would rent the repair facilities of the units their running with and those C-Bills will go to that unit. Lone wolves would HAVE to be good at their job, or extremely cheap, to get work. If they are good, they should be paid accordingly. House's might pay with c-bills, but merc units might pay in a percentage of salvage, c-bills, or repairs. A lone wolf, having full access to the black market, would have the most options easily available to kit out their mech something special, but they would also have to bust their rumps just to keep their mechs running, and it would be hard for them to save up for a new mech. Repairs might be all they could afford if they stink?
Anyway, I think I might put this up as it's own thread. But for now, I'm done. I hope this helps answer questions, and that the second part: suggestions, makes sense.
As far as the poll goes, I did not vote. I would say that all of our first mechs should be stock. We get one mech for free, any weight class. Obviously, it would cost a lot more to keep up an assault mech, and take forever to get the resources to do more than repair it. Those who choose light mechs would probably have faster access to the perks as they would be more cost efficient. All mechs should come stock, like an automobile, and in various states of repair, if used. House members could earn new chassis and perks as they go along through pay/savings and merit. I kind of envision mercs having a garage full of spare parts in hopes of building a classic car. They trade with each other for the parts, salvage, or buy them. So, when the house guy has 3 brand new stock mechs, the merc guy has two variant mechs in need of a good paint job, and 5 mechs at 20-70% complete on his front lawn. Meanwhile, the lone wolf is in his super-customized, supercharged, 4-speed dual quad mech straddling a pile of C-bills and arms shipments, and looking over his shoulder for the guys who want to steal his rims.
17
Could as well do away with the whole MechLab as next step in that case...
