655 replies to this topic

[FACEman Peck]

You players decide.

[Gorith]

Mechlab should be VERY limited (if atall) to avoid frankenmech play style of the previous games

[Holmes]

Gorith, on 16 December 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

Mechlab should be VERY limited (if atall) to avoid frankenmech play style of the previous games

I really hope this post falls on deaf ears.

[Red Beard]

What Gorith said. Stock variants only. No Frankenmechs.

[Orcinus]

I'm getting confused by the question here.

I took "scratchbuilding" to mean getting a mech that starts with no weapons (or other equipment for that matter)
So one would have to then add weapons and such in order for the mech to be combat ready
Please correct me if that is not the case.

On that subject, I would rather be able to buy a mech, take a glance and maybe make initial tweaks. Then I would like to take a "test drive" on the thing, and only afterwards (or even after more "test drives") would i worry about nitpicking how many of what i should have
In short, I want to go "Yay! I got a new mech! Let's fight!"

[Naughtyboy]

i would like to see the mech that are non omnis have the specified load out on delivery,omni mech is up for discussion as they are more open for customisation

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I am confused by this poll so didn't vote.

[Adridos]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 17 December 2011 - 02:08 AM, said:

I am confused by this poll so didn't vote.

It is meant that way: Do you want to buy a mech, choose a variant and then customize it as much as you want (different weapons, etc.), or you want to buy mech´and build him yourself, choose armor, engine, all the weapons, computers, targetting systems, etc.


As far as I go, I chose the first option. Building from scratch would probably destroy my mech, since I have very little experience with something like that.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Gorith, on 16 December 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

Mechlab should be VERY limited (if atall) to avoid frankenmech play style of the previous games

Previous games?
None of the previous games allowed FrankenMechs, from what I can remember.

[Adridos]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 17 December 2011 - 02:47 AM, said:

Previous games?
None of the previous games allowed FrankenMechs, from what I can remember.

You know it is meant as the fact you could put 100 lasers on a mech, that did not have even one lore-wise.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

And?
That's possible with a Class D refit...
Not that it'd be advisable...
The Komodo and Nova both push the number of usable mounted MLs to the limit.

Besides, it isn't my fault they use the wrong terminology.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Neither then - although a Class F refit should take the appropriate amount of time and cost if available. After all effectively designing a new mech and getting it built as an individual should be appropriately difficult. As the game time is 1:1 I can't see most people who after unlimited \mechlab customisation being able to a) afford it and be prepared for the year or so it would take the factory to design, tool up, produce and ship such a custom mech.

Edited by Nik Van Rhijn, 17 December 2011 - 06:11 AM.

[Gorith]

The terminology is irrelevant as many on this forum have begun calling complete customization that. Besides you know what is meant and you are nitpicking.

Anyway on to topic. Nik if that were the case it wouldn't be an issue what these people are wanting is the ability to completely customize the mech down to the armor and engine weights and just stack enough weaponry to alpha anything short of an assault mech and be able to do this easily enought that they can always be in a mech capable of doing this.

[Tweaks]

Gorith, on 16 December 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

Mechlab should be VERY limited (if atall) to avoid frankenmech play style of the previous games

Precisely. The Strategic Operations rulebook details the rules that I find acceptable to include in MWO, which are the Refit Kit and Customizations rules (which are applied like a refit kit). That system could be implemented very well in the F2P model of MWO (PGI would create and release Refit Kits, thus controlling what can be customized to maintain balance, but still have the option to offer a lot of variety).

For example, you could buy (or acquire through salvage) a 'Mech of a certain model and variant, and decide you want to convert it into another variant. You would have to purchase a Refit Kit to go from your variant to the one you want, and depending on the amount of things that have to be modified, require a certain type of facility (field, maintenance or full blown factory). The installation of the Refit Kit would take a certain amount of time (from several hours, to days or weeks), and the quality of the resulting work would be subject to the skill level of your Tech crew.

If you think weeks or days is too long, then think about skill training in EVE Online... It's real time too, and everybody's fine with it. Training a level 5 skill can take more than a month of real time. I don't see why intensive refits in MWO should take less if they are that worth it.

Most people will probably prefer to buy stock 'Mechs and stick to their original design, and only apply small Refits (class A stuff, changing only one gun for example), but someone who can't afford a whole new 'Mech of a certain variant (because it's too rare), might buy a stock 'Mech with a basic variant, and then slowly apply refits to it until it matches the new variant he wants. The process would take weeks, but in the end, he'd have what he wants, and be that more attached to it.

The FrankenMech rules (which is what MW3-style 'Mechlab was all about really) are completely ridiculous and offer so much possibilities that it would be impossible for PGI to balance them all properly and avoid overpowered combos.

(edit) As Nik Van Rhijn pointed out, MWO's timeline will be real time (1:1, It is now December 17, 3048 in MWO), it makes absolutely no sense at all to allow for instant Class-F refits, which by the book, should take weeks to complete, and require a full blown factory grade facility. That point alone, just nullifies every claim that instant-refits would be feasible in MWO!

Edited by Tweaks, 17 December 2011 - 06:30 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Totally agree

[Blood Zebra]

If pre-made mechs don't suit the persons style, then they be aloud to either build their own within the rules of the game or to frankensteined mechs together as long as the mechs are not cheating mech as in Inf. ammo and armor

[Tweaks]

Blood Zebra, on 17 December 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

If pre-made mechs don't suit the persons style, then they be aloud to either build their own within the rules of the game or to frankensteined mechs together as long as the mechs are not cheating mech as in Inf. ammo and armor

I don't agree at all. That may have worked in an instant-action game like MW3, but in MWO where the timeline is 1:1 (real time, 24 hours is 24 hours), that wouldn't work. If PGI can't control precisely what can be customized, then they will fail at properly balancing every possible combinations. The only way they can control that precisely, is by gradually releasing Refit Kits and customization plans, which have been pre-approved and tested.

Edited by Tweaks, 17 December 2011 - 06:40 AM.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I like the idea of expensive, time-consuming limited customization. Things like the AC10-AC20 swap in Yen-Lo-Wang are a cool surprise, but not so unrealistic as replacing the AC10 with a LRM20 which would require a completely different arm structure.

[Gorith]

Blood Zebra, on 17 December 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

If pre-made mechs don't suit the persons style, then they be aloud to either build their own within the rules of the game or to frankensteined mechs together as long as the mechs are not cheating mech as in Inf. ammo and armor

The problem with that becomes you endup with an 100 ton mech that while may not be as armored as most other 100 ton mech and maybe as slow or slower than an atlas is carrying something silly like 4x Gauss 2x ERPPCs (while not possible in 3048 im just makign an example here) thats enough to alpha virtually anything

[Holmes]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. No MechLab, No Buy.

It's free.

Oh. Well, No MechLab, No Play.

Not even worth the time. I uninstalled MW:LL within hours after discovering there was no MechLab, and it took me days to download on my joke of an internet connection. I don't **** around, MechLab is half the game for me.

I'm the same way with any game. In Gran Turismo I spend hours and HOURS tweaking suspension and gear ratios etc. per car until it is EXACT. I downloaded some bad *** pirate MMO to play with my buddy, found out you couldn't customize how your guy looks... bam game done. Uninstalled.