655 replies to this topic

[Tweaks]

Holmes, on 17 December 2011 - 06:49 AM, said:

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. No MechLab, No Buy.

It's free.

Oh. Well, No MechLab, No Play.

Not even worth the time. I uninstalled MW:LL within hours after discovering there was no MechLab, and it took me days to download on my joke of an internet connection. I don't **** around, MechLab is half the game for me.

I'm the same way with any game. In Gran Turismo I spend hours and HOURS tweaking suspension and gear ratios etc. per car until it is EXACT. I downloaded some bad *** pirate MMO to play with my buddy, found out you couldn't customize how your guy looks... bam game done. Uninstalled.

You're just one of the exceptions, thankfully. If you can't bare the option of having a very limited MechLab, then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. I really doubt that PGI will implement such a thing as free-for-all customizations in their version of a MechLab.

[Holmes]

Limited is OK with me actually. I don't want every mech to be an omnimech that would be pointless... you might as well just pick a avatar like in Quake 3.

I WOULD like to decide if I get long range missiles or short-range missiles, whether I use ER Burst Laser (I forget the name) or PPC, which weapon group to assign them, etc. Not to mention engine size and heatsinks etc. (Less missiles, more heatsinks? That should be my choice.)

I don't know what was wrong with MW4's considering it had color coded weapon assignment. Something a little more strict then that would be fine. I <i>did not</i> like the system in MW:LL. Then again, I completely hated Crysis Wars weapon purchase system to begin with. I loved Crysis, but **** that thing was a pain in the *** to use.

Edited by Holmes, 17 December 2011 - 07:30 AM.

[Blood Zebra]

What I ment was what as long as the mech isn't some idoitic design with multp. large weapons as in guass rifles PPCs, as well pourly armor and slower than a snail, than the person could design a unit custom tailored to their style, Gorith andTweaks

Gorith, on 17 December 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

The problem with that becomes you endup with an 100 ton mech that while may not be as armored as most other 100 ton mech and maybe as slow or slower than an atlas is carrying something silly like 4x Gauss 2x ERPPCs (while not possible in 3048 im just makign an example here) thats enough to alpha virtually anything

Tweaks, on 17 December 2011 - 06:38 AM, said:

I don't agree at all. That may have worked in an instant-action game like MW3, but in MWO where the timeline is 1:1 (real time, 24 hours is 24 hours), that wouldn't work. If PGI can't control precisely what can be customized, then they will fail at properly balancing every possible combinations. The only way they can control that precisely, is by gradually releasing Refit Kits and customization plans, which have been pre-approved and tested.

Edited by Blood Zebra, 17 December 2011 - 07:37 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

If we plan to get any ideas across to the Dev it is best to try and keep them in one area, like say the

http://mwomercs.com/...ep-it-that-way/

thread

Edited by MaddMaxx, 17 December 2011 - 07:53 AM.

[Gorith]

Blood Zebra, on 17 December 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

What I ment was what as long as the mech isn't some idoitic design with multp. large weapons as in guass rifles PPCs, as well pourly armor and slower than a snail, than the person could design a unit custom tailored to their style, Gorith andTweaks

The problem becomes how do you allow maximum customization without allowing such shenanigans

[Lab Rat]

Poll Fails because you didn't give option for stock/variants only.
My vote is stock/variants only.

[Lab Rat]

Gorith, on 17 December 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

The problem with that becomes you endup with an 100 ton mech that while may not be as armored as most other 100 ton mech and maybe as slow or slower than an atlas is carrying something silly like 4x Gauss 2x ERPPCs (while not possible in 3048 im just makign an example here) thats enough to alpha virtually anything

^^^This. I've seen enough Dire Wolves configed into the most gawd awful contraption of lasers to last me a life time. We used to call that config the "Nublet Special".

[John Clavell]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 17 December 2011 - 02:47 AM, said:

Previous games? None of the previous games allowed FrankenMechs, from what I can remember.

Basically this. No previous MechWarrior games to my knowledge have ever really supported FrankenMechs. Customisation of Battlemechs is one of the core parts of Battletech. People calling for it to be left out of the game should HTFU. Stock variants should be available from the market, but ultimately customisation should be as unlimited as game design allows. The balancing factor being cost and rarity of equipment, off set by maintenance and repair costs. What previous mechwarrior games really lacked was this. It was a case of have your cake and eat it. Everyone went to get into the best setup in the best Mech and that was it until it got balanced in a patch. Let Mech Corps weigh up what works better for them, more standard technology, which is cheaper and more available. Requires lower tech levels to maintain and is thus cheaper in repair and more available parts. Or have more advanced tech, but at higher overall purchase and maintenance costs. If Mech Corps have finite income or resource / tech availably they will have to balance how much advanced tech they can support. Not just everyone in pimped out experimental uber tech because basically it would cripple the Corps wallet.

Edited by John Clavell, 17 December 2011 - 08:54 AM.

[KingCobra]

I did not vote in your poll becouse there are not enough options.A mechwarrior2-3 style mechlab would be ok for me ive played them before and i would suggest you could only buy weapons.armors.electronics,jumpjets or MASC's that would not overbalance the chassis you have.Same with salvage you attain in battles only certian weapons,armors inner&outer,electronics,jumpjets or MASC's could be used on that chassis as stated in your mech technical readout manual in your mechlab.If you salvage or buy a combo of weapons for a mech varient or salvage them from battles then they can be used in your mechlab after they were reconditioned at a cost.It would also be nice to have a simulator like in the PC mech games (instant action)from your mechlab so you could test your new mech out before it goes into battles.A section of your mechlab should have a tab to get realtime schematics of mech varients A-Z and there componants.I would also be in favor of trading mechs and componants to my teammates so we could share in building said mechs from purchase or salvage.

Edited by KingCobra, 17 December 2011 - 09:00 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I don't think any of the Mech factories in the BattleTech universe produce unarmed Mechs and sell them that way... so the idea of scratchbuilding is, as far as I know, non-canon and most likely will not part of MWO.


(Somebody please point-out if this is incorrect, because if there are canon-examples of unarmed Mechs rolling off the production lines and being made available for sale, then this idea might be reasonable)

[Mekslayer]

I for one like the idea of a mechlab... but I think new rules for limiting mech mod designs to a resonable level must then be implemented. I build mechs/mechdesigns all the time, but even I think Komodo's, Black Hawk Ku's, Falconer's, 3025 Grasshopper's, and Thunderhawks are wayyyy too munchy to make a more balanced game where all mech designs can be useful. But I also think that building mechs like the Mist Lynx (Koshi) A and forcing someone to use it in combat is an insult to their intelligence. Similiar to this is making a Ford Pinto and forcing someone to drive it. Mist Lynx (Koshi) A's should never be incorporated into the game, just as Pinto's should never be on the road:

http://www.time.com/...1657866,00.html
so why not get rid of it?

I will add ideas for the rules later.

Edited by Mekslayer, 17 December 2011 - 11:39 AM.

[John Frye]

Honestly, I think the all mechs should start out as one of the cannon variants. They should be modifiable from there using time and resources (the Yen-Lo-Wang example was a good one), but should take time and money as well as limiting the amount of change allowed at each level. Nik's comment are very to the point. Unless you want to throw out cannon, it make NO sense to allow unlimited instant or short term customization outside of Omni mechs (and even they should face limitations to the what can be put in the pod bays). If you want a cannon example against it, read the Bandersnatch variant section in TR 3055. It takes a well equipped custom build shop 10+ months to build one because it isn't mass produced and mass production is just that, mass production, not customization.

Edit: Also, if all mechs become easily customizable, what then becomes the point of Omnimechs? I think it would be silly to make an entire core class of mech redundant because someone wants to have their instant Derp mech.

Edited by John Frye, 17 December 2011 - 09:55 AM.

[Evildesires]

Another choice would be something like MW2 for the the mechs. Had a set load out but also had an alt load out for if you did not like a weapon. Something else that could be done is make a set weight and gun slot / size for all the mechs. I see the point both sides are making but if i do not want machine guns and would rather replace them with small lasers on my mad cat i would like that choice. There has to be a way to make both sides happy at the same time without letting the Alpha Strike guys go nuts.

[FACEman Peck]

I always thought that was the whole point of the MechLab, to modify a 'Mech from the ground up to have a war machine that will ensure your survival for as long as possible. Something I used for major assaults was a Daishi with a lot of ballistics, one LRM-15, and some lasers, modified armor, and no equipment.

[John Frye]

Mekslayer, on 17 December 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

-snip-

But I also think that building mechs like the
Mist Lynx (Koshi) A and forcing someone to use it in combat is an insult to their intelligence and is similiar to making a Ford Pinto and forcing someone to ride in it. Mist Lynx (Koshi) A's should never be incorporated into the game, as only a complete ***** would even consider taking ride in the Pinto:

http://www.time.com/...1657866,00.html
so why not get rid of it?

I will add ideas for the rules later.

The Mist Lynx - A is an Artillery spotter, hence the TAG gear. Not sure how practical it would be if Arrow IV systems aren't implemented, but being an arty spotter is the point of the -A version. A better questions for me was always why it ended up in the 3050 rules, since the clans were very 1 vs 1 and there weren't any standard Arrow IV variants in the 3050 Clan Omnis

Edited by John Frye, 17 December 2011 - 10:09 AM.

[panda22]

Why would anyone vote against the options for customization? Let us build our Mechs however we want but include pre-made ones if people don't wanna build from scratch. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean you should vote against other people using it. It would be a travesty if this vote goes the wrong way. This is what i love about mech games. What killed the mech games was mech assault with their crappy pre-built, dumbed down system. Don't take away customization plz.

[John Frye]

Prosperity Park, on 17 December 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

I don't think any of the Mech factories in the BattleTech universe produce unarmed Mechs and sell them that way... so the idea of scratchbuilding is, as far as I know, non-canon and most likely will not part of MWO.


(Somebody please point-out if this is incorrect, because if there are canon-examples of unarmed Mechs rolling off the production lines and being made available for sale, then this idea might be reasonable)

Agro mechs and Industrial mechs were unarmed and people did modify them to have weapons and armor (they are mentioned in some of the books - Mercenary's Star comes to mind). However the authors made it clear that those kind of kludge battlemechs were massively inferior to true battlemechs.

[Bernardo Sinibaldi]

For me, pre-made. Any subsequent customisations should be expensive (in-game credits, not real cash) until the advent of the clans and omni-mechs (that was the entire point of omnis).

Edited by Bernardo Sinibaldi, 17 December 2011 - 10:28 AM.

[Tweaks]

panda22, on 17 December 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

Why would anyone vote against the options for customization? Let us build our Mechs however we want but include pre-made ones if people don't wanna build from scratch. Just because you won't use it doesn't mean you should vote against other people using it. It would be a travesty if this vote goes the wrong way. This is what i love about mech games. What killed the mech games was mech assault with their crappy pre-built, dumbed down system. Don't take away customization plz.

This is a pure "BT fanboys versus MW fanboys" argument, and hopefully PGI will know how to satisfy both. I'm pretty sure however, that if there is any kind of MechLab implemented, that it won't be a fully opened "build your 'Mech from scratch" type of thing, but something closer to Refit Kits and limited customization options.

I guess we'll all have to wait for PGI to announce their plan in that regard.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

What I would like to see is PGI modify the stock mechs where they include things like MG's which are useless in games without infantry and add extra armour or whatever so that all the starter mechs are useful. So much depends on so many factors that we don't know about. I know a number of people have said things to the effect that "if I can't make my favourite Abomimech gunbag I won't play". In my case if there is unlimited customisation (except for Solaris VII style matches) it may not stop me playing, but it may stop me playing for very long. To be honest the majority of people playing this game when it arrives will no nothing about BT/MW and therefore won't misss something they never had.