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MechLab scratchbuilding


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Poll: MechLab builds (822 member(s) have cast votes)

Scratchbuilding or getting 'Mechs with factory armaments?

  1. Complete pre-made armaments (Ability to customize afterwards) (583 votes [70.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.92%

  2. Complete scratchbuild (239 votes [29.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.08%

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#141 renegade mitchell

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:10 PM

View PostNik Van Rhijn, on 20 December 2011 - 02:24 AM, said:

"We want to make sure we bring the roots of the MechWarrior® titles back to the surface and also incorporate the basic rules from the BattleTech® Universe. Players will be able to customize their BattleMechs with weapon and armor upgrades as well as customize their cosmetic appearance in the MechLab." This is what we have so far (from the game section). Some form of customisation is in, we just don't know the details. The general tech level is 3049 but we don't know wether they will differentiate between different computer types. sensors etc to enable their Role designations. We also don't know how accessible certain types/levels of tech will be, their cost and how long it will take to implement. Given PGI's statements about accessibilty at different levels their will probably be a range of "refit kits" for newcomers in the Mechlab with more control for the more experienced/familiar "tweakers". Hopefully this is a useful summary of where we are at the moment.


That pretty much sums it up right there. Refit kits for the noobs and more control for us vets.

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 20 December 2011 - 02:12 PM.


#142 Win44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:01 PM

I like the refit kit idea, and I want to like the full customization idea.

What ultimately needs to happen in order to allow full customization of mechs is an incredibly complex bit of coding in order for design decisions to have fully realistic repercussions.

By this I mean if somebody can make an AC boat , then I want the Mech too look like its carrying multiple cannons. Then I want that mech to fall on its *** when the pilot presses the alpha trigger and releases more ballistics energy in an instant than any gyroscope could possibly negate, especially on multiple planes of reference. Then I want all of those cannons to have a realistic trajectory for each that compensates for the fact that anything mounted in a static torso is going to have a preset focus point.

If some clown mounts LRM's all over a Mech I want to see the ammo feed system so I can ***** it with a pulse laser and watch that clown blow up in a cloud of his/her own foolishness.

If I decide to mod my Hunchy with 6 M Lasers instead of the AC20, I want to be blinded and lose several layers of skin when I shoot those off a few feet from my cockpit window (or be navigating blind because I had to compensate with a tinted canopy).

You get my drift i'm sure. I realize it's a game and it needs to be fun, and I loved my previous experiences in mechlab wonders. However, I believe anything that involves competition for fun will devolve into min/maxing/boating by the masses because it's the easiest route to success. I believe that the only way to negate that tendancy is to make Mechlab exclusive to those who have the ability to do it correctly, and the easiest way to do that is to fully code in the consequences of physics.

*Edit: I changed the Gausse example because its possible that a Gausse wouldn't have a severe recoil. But it sure would need a juicy ammo feed.*

Edited by Win44, 20 December 2011 - 03:08 PM.


#143 Alekto Serenis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:16 PM

Gauss rifles "barely" have a recoil according to lore.... (actually if iam not mistaken NONE, it is a mass accelerator, propelling a slug along multiple magnets), that ac/20 would rather drop the mech, but it got compensator and blabla, also watch the mechcommander intro, the hunchback's torso.
The "ballistic outfall" would be on the victims side, like the heavy gauss rules. (which actually also consider recoil, only torso mount)

If you fire of lasers you wouldnt actually see anything, thats a gameplay compromise and it looks cool, also cockpit windows have an inbuilt security to direct laser hits. Read the books.

To hit the ammo feeder of a missile launcher you had to do a lucky shot and land a crit. Aka hit the ammo and giggle at the moron that forgot case.

Something more to de-troll with lore and core rules?

*edit* The min maxing will happen anyways, people will look for the cheapest ****, there is always the n00bs that go for the bfg, just arm your smallest gun and pwn them even harder with sheer skill

I personally think people doing that have very very little else... (actually i believe all of them are eunuchs or something along those lines)

Edited by Alekto Serenis, 20 December 2011 - 03:24 PM.


#144 Win44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:54 PM

View PostAlekto Serenis, on 20 December 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

Gauss rifles "barely" have a recoil according to lore.... (actually if iam not mistaken NONE, it is a mass accelerator, propelling a slug along multiple magnets), that ac/20 would rather drop the mech, but it got compensator and blabla, also watch the mechcommander intro, the hunchback's torso.
The "ballistic outfall" would be on the victims side, like the heavy gauss rules. (which actually also consider recoil, only torso mount)

If you fire of lasers you wouldnt actually see anything, thats a gameplay compromise and it looks cool, also cockpit windows have an inbuilt security to direct laser hits. Read the books.

To hit the ammo feeder of a missile launcher you had to do a lucky shot and land a crit. Aka hit the ammo and giggle at the moron that forgot case.

Something more to de-troll with lore and core rules?


Beat you to the Gausse example.

Your laser argument is garbage though, my eyes are still the most sensitive part of my body to any radiation, doesn't matter if I can see it or not. If lore offers me technological protection it shouldn't change the fact that I should be piloting blind during the discharge period. Maybe, I should use the time to get you a book quote of a pilot being killed by laser fire. (Reading the Legend of the Jade Phoenix Trilogy currently, I could contact you when I reach the battle for Tukayyid?)

Finally the whole LRM business, thanks for appreciating my humor. In all my days of being into BT, and being of an engineering persuasion, RL, I have often wondered/imagined how an LRM box system would work. I suppose that if the system weighs 4 tons or more it might be possible to fit the reloads+mechanism within an armored shell and mount it on an arm. But of course a Case system can only be mounted in a torso.... how do those missles get from torso to the arm?

Save the Troll stuff, im done here, no need to get a good thread locked. The Lore we live by was created by terrific imaginations, computer games gave us all a chance to see our imaginations come to life. Games have evolved to give us more of everything, especially things that bring us more immersion into it's world. TT rules have evolved to an epicness loved by many, but are still all based in a world where nobody see's anything moving. Someday, somewhere out there, we will find MWO and see a new world.

*EDIT:

Quote

[color=#959595]*edit* The min maxing will happen anyways, people will look for the cheapest ****, there is always the n00bs that go for the bfg, just arm your smallest gun and pwn them even harder with sheer skill[/color]

[color=#959595]I personally think people doing that have very very little else... (actually i believe all of them are eunuchs or something along those lines)
[/color]

I see that ultimately we are on the same page. I hate the zerg to win mentality, mainly why my argument revolves around making mechlab too difficult for the average user.

Edited by Win44, 20 December 2011 - 04:11 PM.


#145 Alekto Serenis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:09 PM

Ok i got it, i just thought another one against customizing without knowing any bt core rules and just coming to troll/alike

btw clan case can be mounted anywhere (actually is prebuild into any mech)

When i remember correctly, the windows polarize themself to shield against the laser's light, so unless someone has more luck then anyone could like and lands flashlight crits (god i hate those) the pilot is perfectly save

And hey its "the future", its about imagination, who knows what wonders the starleague has thought of ^^

*edit*
Thats why i keep speaking of the core rules, some randam nap wont be able to create an simple ubermech, it takes some times to get used to the lab, and the real ubermechs i met on the table, are those that required more tactical thinking then gausszilla's, the deadliest mech i ever encounter was a ultra agile 50 ton

*edit* i personally believe anything simplifieng the lab to the point of mw4 will actually encourage boats

Edited by Alekto Serenis, 20 December 2011 - 04:21 PM.


#146 Win44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:42 PM

View PostAlekto Serenis, on 20 December 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:



And hey its "the future", its about imagination, who knows what wonders the starleague has thought of ^^

*edit*
Thats why i keep speaking of the core rules, some randam nap wont be able to create an simple ubermech, it takes some times to get used to the lab, and the real ubermechs i met on the table, are those that required more tactical thinking then gausszilla's, the deadliest mech i ever encounter was a ultra agile 50 ton

*edit* i personally believe anything simplifieng the lab to the point of mw4 will actually encourage boats


Too true, trying to put our current rules of physics into a world of 100 ton battlemechs with frickin lazerbeams is pretty foolish.

Let's just be honest with ourselves and say Mechlab has never been done right. Making suggestions in comparisons of this or that version of MW had a better mechlab should carry with it a death penalty. We don't want to cloud the Dev's minds with bad ideas.

Ultimately a balance between pure TT customization and the world of the zergling boater is going to have to be invented from scratch. It's got to be pub gamer friendly i.e. "Poof * Twinkle" your new mech is ready and it cost you X c-bills. (Real Time is not likely, c-bill accumulation time is more likely)

What kind of lore is out there that creates a value system to this custom design mechanic(other than real time), that also gives us measure to protect BT from the hordes?

#147 Alekto Serenis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:02 PM

I actually thing the most elegant solution would be the tech's, no ones better paid then an experienced tech, and i think some magician is required to create a well around custom mech

I would also suggest what we did with our group, earn and salvage any tech you want, conquer some factory, "infiltrate" a research facility, etc, and then have the cbills to pay that greasy *** who knows how to pull it off :)

*edit*
To clarify what i meant, simple put, the more a mech is customized, the more it receives extracost's, as you have to pay the tech extra that does it. So a basic mech would be a lot cheaper to a custom, and the more its rebuild the more expensive it would become.

Edited by Alekto Serenis, 20 December 2011 - 05:13 PM.


#148 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:52 PM

Right-o, good chap! Mech customization should cost... an arm... and a leg...?

I think adding weapons to a Mech should entail paying for the new part, paying to remove the old weapon, and then paying to add the new weapon. I do not think that you should be able to "swap" weapons - you should have to uninstall, and then install. It's a two-part process.

#149 RogueSpear

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 08:11 PM

Bear with me here, you're in for a ramble. I swear, I get to the point eventually. A summary however is available at the end. My thanks in advance to the four people who will read this through.

Personally I've only played MW4:Mercs and have no experience with any of the other mechlabs, but I loved MW4s. I really did. The cheap config swapping has seen me spend many hours without playing a single match. I'm an avid customizer in all systems - I play Warhammer 40,000, have done for 8 years, and I've never played a canon army (Ie, The Imperial Fists Space Marines chapter, or the Saim-hann Eldar) or a typical configuration of an army (My Eldar (The 'Space Elf' army) for example don't use tonnes of elite troops or fast LAVs, I use many conscript militia troops and tanks instead). Continuing the 40k ramble, I have always stormed up my own characters and factions etc and thrown them into the mix. I simply am never quite satisfied without putting my own spin on things.
Even with the MW4:Mercs campaign, I actually attempt to RP my unit on occasion. My current playthrough has me playing a Steiner loyalist, taking contracts where he can to get the most money, to buy more mechs and hire more pilots. I'm nearing the end of the game, and have nearly every pilot hired, over a full company of mechs in a mix of chassis' (I even managed to get through the Hesperus II Mechworks defence mission using only 2 assaults, the rest using mediums and heavies) and carry them all around despite the massive c-bill drain from all these things I never use, because in the playthrough 'Spectre' is trying to get as many rough and ready mechwarriors together to help save House Steiner from total defeat, to get that little bit of extra power at their disposal.
I went mental when I read the first dev blogs, promising that MercCorps could influence the course of action, mech customization was in, and (I can't remember if this was in the blogs or a rumour I fell in love with) that MercCorps could take over their own planets(And presumably kit them out to some degree, á la McCarron's Armoured Cavalry for example). The degree of customization dazzled me. Immediately I began dreaming about putting together a MercCorp of friends (coming up on double company strength, 29 of us at last count) and slowly expanding as the game progresses, possibly managing to take our own planet, forming our own minifaction (Á la St. Ives, assuming I read their background right), and a dozen other such things.
Reverting this ramble back on track to mechlabs, it would devastate me to be forced to use only stock variants. Even if refit kits are bought and sold, I would swiftly stop playing from the disappointment. Suddenly a huge chunk of customization is cut. A further example (Please continue to bear with me).
Now I won't lie, I have been a boater. To a degree I still am. In my Davion playthrough, I have 4 Behemoth(Stone Rhino)s stomping around followed by 4 Daishi(Dire Wolves)s (I'm simply not good enough to play anything smaller on elite mode. Why I chose elite I do not know, but I'm too stubborn to give up.). My Daishis are currently kitted with 3 Clan Gauss, and 2 Light PPCs for uber range support. In my defence, I changed them to this after I realized the second lance will always trail around at 400m+ from the enemy unless I myself get right in amongst them. I made the change purely for gameplay benefits. I have had a variant with 4 clan ER Med lasers and 3 AC20s on the Daishis before (which was hysterical, I enjoyed it far more than I should).
However, even playing against my flatmates rather than the AI, I easily take these boats out with my Behemoths 1-1, with a K/D of around 2.5-1. My Behemoths are kitted out much more reasonably, with 2 AC-10s in the chest, 2 Light PPCs in the arms, a Clan ER Med laser on the dorsal gun, and 2 Clan ER Small lasers under the cockpit. I still fit LAMS, but I have had to cut the jumpjets, so they are much less manoeuvrable, which has led to me getting cut to pieces by Mad Cats.
In short, when playing against humans on the more interesting maps of the Mektek packs, rather than the open planes of the coliseum from vanilla mercs, boats get pulverised by skilled and intelligent players. That cannot, and will not ever change.
I welcome it! I welcome the fools who endeavour to try!
Now I've never actually read any of the battletech books (Barring an short novella that came with the wolfman-X mod of MechCommander II [Note: *That* mechlab, though fun, was stupid. I do not want it for anything other than arbitrary skirmish mode], which I don't really think counts) but I have trawled the sarna.net wiki to death. I am not a loremaster by a long shot, but I do have a general grounding (Or so I'd like to think). However, the wiki, MC2, and MW4 are full of ***** commanders and demented characters with their own personal tastes and whims. They're full of mad geniuses, or brilliant warriors gifted unique mechs. Look under unique mechs on the wiki. Kai Allard Liao's Yen-Lo-Wang anyone?
I want that. I want the ability to do that. Hell, I want the option to over or undertonne a mech at whim, just to see what I can do with it.

The long awaited summary:
Sure, the mechlab is an add-on for games. But it's a very important one. It allows gamers to create their own unique mechs, that already exist in the fluff. It is merely a means to an end. Yes, there will always be boats. Yes, there will be some seriously stupid mechs out there. The boats will score some cheap wins. You will wonder what ***** though putting 3 AC20s, 2 Light gauss rifles with no extra ammo and nearly no armour on a Daishi was a good idea.
BUT those mechs will be useless in the face of skilled competition. The Behemoth I mentioned above is designed to wreak havoc on any assault or heavy. It is magnificent at it's job. It is however, atrocious at killing aircraft, vehicles, and any mech that can go above 50/60 mph. Unless I have a couple of skilled players watching my back, I'll get obliterated.
Wait a minute, there's that teamwork and coordination thing the devs wanted.
A mechlab will add boats and variants that can limit a mechwarrior's dependance on allies. But there is no way to design a competitive mech that can scout, and tank, and shoot, and manoeuvre, and the list goes on. It is not possible. A team of randoms who try may get some fluke victories against skilled players, they may get some steamrolling successes against a fresh, inexperienced or experimenting team.
But I cannot help but think that ultimately a mechlab, of a similar vein to the MW4 system (All I have to base experience on, it does need some tweaks, hold on, I do have some ideas for this!) can only help to aid the aim that the devs want - teamwork, role warfare, and so on. Find me a single mech that was not built with an intent to perform a job, or a variant designed to enable it to do a new one, or it's old one better. It doesn't exist. The players who boat will be ultimately outclassed by those who endeavour to design a mech with a purpose.

The Idea:

I'm not a starry eyed romantic. I'm a games development student at the University of Abertay (I mention this because it is noted for the 'standard of excellence' of it's games courses. I mention this not to brag, I'm certainly nowhere near the top of my class, but to shameless advertise the institution that allows me to ramble like this and not just look like an ***** with nothing but a list of petty demands). I have thought this over, even as I rambled. The goal here is to create a mechlab that prohibits but does not eliminate the ability to create boats, is difficult but not impossible to use, and allows the maximum of customization with the minimum of imbalance. Here are my own ideas for the mechlab.

In six stages:

Purchaseable Variants.
Slot limits.
Mass values.
Heat sink and ammo locations, heat/location.
Further customization.
Exponential customization and maintenance costs.

First and foremost, purchaseable variants. Any variant produced by your faction may be bought at will, or if a MercCorp, acquired through a market. This keeps *everyone* happy. The newbies get a place to start, the customizers get ideas and again a starting point, and the age old fans get all the shiny toys they know and love.
Secondly, hard point customization similar to MW4. Using the MW4 system as a starting point, with all the same hardpoint types, make the following edits:
Slot limits: Each hardpoint fits 1 gun. It may be a bigger or smaller gun, but it fits one gun. You can replace your Hunchback's AC-20 with a machine gun if you want, I love you for it you machiavellian ******* who knows where everyone is shooting, but you can only stick one of them on it.
Mass/hardpoint: An arrow IV takes up a lot more space than an SRM, as well as weighing less. By the same measure, a 20mm Flak 38 autocannon takes up a lot more space than an MG34. Add mass values to weapons, ammo, heatsinks etc, and mass capacities to hardpoints.
Ammo and Heatsink locations, heat values/location: Specify the location of your heatsinks and ammo. Your Arrow IV thunderbolt cannot load missiles the size of a smart car into it's arm from it's torso in safety or efficiency. If you have 20 heatsinks in your mech torso, you're keeping it nice and chilly - but the Clan ER Large Pulse on your arm is still pumping out the heat in spades. You must keep all locations cool, or the location that overheats explodes, even if your whole mech doesn't go. This can easily be kept track of in game by messages such as 'Left/right arm/torso/dorsal gun/etc overheated, shutting down weapon system' and then following them through. As per mech overheating, override them at will - and your own peril.
Increased customization: Engine types, exoskeleton types, everything in the lore. Add it in, load it up, change it about. See what happens.
Exponential customization and maintenance costs. A time requirement for customization in MW:O will only serve to detract from the experience of all but the most dedicated roleplayer. I agree with it if major events are ongoing (If the Battle of Tukkiyad is being fought and after coming out of a match you decide you can take a Hellbringer much easier if you swapped some things around, I'd listen to arguments that you shouldn't be able to reconfigure things and jump back in. On the other hand, it's a game, not reality, and I wanna use my new toy naow!) in theory, but as a standard feature, it would only drive players away. Instead, have an exponential cost of upgrades, that stacks. You want to replace your ferrofibrous armour with endo steel? Go for it. Cost of the Endo Steel is say, 1 million c-bills. However, you now have a very different mech, making the existing systems less familiar to the technicians. Endo steel is a pretty major refit, so say the mech has a multiplier of +1.0 from it. This means your next upgrade will cost twice it's normal cost. So if you want to swap out your Hunchback's AC-20 for an LBX AC-20, you're still paying twice as much. Straight weapon swaps like swapping a 3 slot ballistic weapon for another 3 slot ballistic will have a low modifier, but if you want to tuck in that machine gun array from earlier, sure it's a lot smaller system but what do the techs do with all that empty space? How do they keep it in place while you're getting knocked around? That's a larger multiplier. Same with swapping out the hunchback's 3 slot ballistic hard point on the shoulder for say, a 2 slot beam with more space for heat sinks. That's a big multiplier. That hunchback is now decidedly nonstandard. Take this even further, and have the multipliers only add if you do all the conversions in one go. If you make another customization later, that's an even larger multiple. Obviously an eventual cap is needed, or even a way to go back (Swapping back to the 3 slot ballistic makes the design more familiar, and should therefore cost less). Maintenance also will cost more, again exponentially. I don't have an algorithm on hand, but I believe the idea is sound.

Thoughts?
Also, congrats if you did manage to read all that!

#150 Tezz LaCoil

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:22 PM

In my opinion, Mechs should have certain equipment that is non-removeable, depending on the chasis, BattleMechs that are non-omni should have very few hardpoints that are open to change beyond a certain base. Similar to Mechwarrior 4, but with less customization capability. Mechs that have SOME omni hardpoints should be addressed respectively. Full OmniMechs should have complete modular capability.

However, even OmniMechs should have their limits. For instance: Dropping a Gauss Rifle into a KitFox or an Uller or something should NOT be allowed, even at the expense of equipment, speed, and armor. Why? Because that would require a COMPLETE redesign of the Mech in question! Omni hardpoints need to have a load and size limit. A smaller mech with onmi can mount certain small to medium weapons but not massive weapons you would see on an Assault Class BattleMech, just as a larger mech should NOT be able to jury rig a THOUSAND small pulse lasers to one hardpoint that you would see on a Scout, Light, or Medium Mech. The limits should go both ways. The idea needs refinement, I know. But who here agrees that this would be a good idea?

All of this is of course, if we are following the traditional builds of the BattleMechs in question.

#151 Brakkyn

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:45 PM

MechLabs are a good idea--they just don't work, like Communism and Prohibition.

I don't want MechLabs allowing full customization because they don't work.

#152 Alekto Serenis

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:49 PM

@prower
http://www.sarna.net...Fox_%28Uller%29
Config A - Gauss rifle.
It should be possible to do so by all means, the mech is intented to carry one

Omni slots and all slots are a stupid idea of microsoft

Originally a mech has critical space, inside this space anything can be put in, but requires space, this includes heat sinks equipment ammo etc. A omni mech by lore is just capable of swapping its configuration to another with 15-30 minutes work on the battlefield, a omni mech chassis basically is a fixxed mech that has free space and tonnage to add whatever the warrior desires.

Also according to lore, modifieng non omni mechs takes days or weeks, as they are not modular built, refitting them takes time as a new weapon requires to be made fit into the chassis "somehow", the omni basically is a mech full off usb and the standard simply needs a new adapter for every little piece of hardware being desired to put in

@Rogue Spear

I give that you put some thought in it, but here look at how the tt does the "mechlab"
http://www.angelfire...awingboard.html (cheap easy tool, i personally use HMPro, the "expert" mech design tool)

*edit*
@Brakkyn
Anyting constructive to say why?

Edited by Alekto Serenis, 20 December 2011 - 11:51 PM.


#153 Black Dragon EnDrakus

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:25 AM

looking through, the kit fox actually has several configs mounting gauss, and even a couple PPC designs. this is a light mech that is *typically* used to field heavy weapons.

#154 Capt Stern

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:34 AM

Mechlab was 1/2, or more, of the game for me too.

Do not limit us please

If you remove user creativity, you remove users.

Edited by Capt Stern, 21 December 2011 - 12:34 AM.


#155 Wolvers

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:45 AM

View PostTweaks, on 20 December 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

Boating is not the only argument against full customization. There are several others. For my part, the most fun I've had was when I was playing MW:LL and MPBT:3025. They both had no 'MechLab, meaning you had to learn how to use each 'Mech and their variants the way they were supposed to be played. You also had to learn their weaknesses and remember them to be good in combat.

To me, learning all the different 'Mechs and learning how to recognize the variants by looking at its guns was a thrill.


By looking at it's guns, how exactly will the guns change their look then in full customization? If they keep each gun looking exactly the same no matter what mech it's on, then you can still have this thrill of recognizing, the basic design of the mech also wouldn't change.

View PostTweaks, on 20 December 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

With full customization, that aspect is gone completely. Other than the general look of a 'Mech, you can't know what weapons, armor or internals it has, or where to hit it to do most damage, since it could almost be just about anything.


Well you could know what weapons if the weapon designs remained constant regardless of the mech it's attached to. As for armour, I'm sure they could do something slightly different to show that a mech might be using reflective or ballistic or hardened armour. Knowing how the internals have changed is neither here nor there for me. As for the where to hit to do the most damage, well, I think if anything, that's an argument for customization, so we get to see more base mech designs out there, rather than the same looking mechs all over the place.

View PostTweaks, on 20 December 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

This is not MechLab Online after all, it's MechWarrior Online! So I don't see why it "HAS" to have a full blown customization system.


Yes and they want MechWarrior Online to be as close to the TT as possible, part of that is being able to customize.

View PostTweaks, on 20 December 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

PS. Crying to PGI claiming you won't play if it's not in there the way you want it won't change anything.


I agree, which is why I haven't claimed to not play if they don't do this.

#156 LctRoyFokker

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:58 AM

Somthing came to me last night. If your arent planing to add the Mech Lab, then your going to need to make all the different weapon loadouts for each Battlemech, I know that the Awesome has at least 3 or 4 differet Weapon loadouts. Infact name any Battlemech and they have at least 2 to 5.

Dont you think it would be just easer to just let us mechjocks modify our mechs in a Mechlab?

You just need to make it so that if a Mech wants at add a big gun, he is going to need to give up a lot of room for it, Like the 35 ton Hollander. It really only has 1 weapon, just take out the gun and the Mech is toast!!!

Been reading a lot about Omni spots in Mech, Before the Clan invasion Inner Sphere Mech's didnt have Omni spots on any Mech. That is one of resons the Clans were so dangerous when they showed up.

And Doubble heat sinks didnt help the Inner Sphere win a lot of battles eather.

#157 Halfinax

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:08 AM

I don't see the option I want. I agree with Gorith and many other posters in here. At most I want to see very limited customization. I can see having the ability to further customize a 'Mech within it's role, but being able to customize it to such an absurd extent (as in previous SP titles) that it is being used well outside of it's intended role just seems wrong. At that point the 'Mech is nothing more than aesthetic in purpose, and that just doesn't work for me on many levels. I want a Catapult to be a FS 'Mech not just a aesthetic choice, and the same goes for the Atlas, Jenner, Hunchback, Dragon, etc. It should remain within it's principle role if it can be player customized and isn't an OmniMech.

I don't mind if a 'Mech is highly specialized within it's role on the battlefield, but it does bother me if it is completely re-purposed.

#158 RogueSpear

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:17 AM

View PostAlekto Serenis, on 20 December 2011 - 11:49 PM, said:

@Rogue Spear

I give that you put some thought in it, but here look at how the tt does the "mechlab"
http://www.angelfire...awingboard.html (cheap easy tool, i personally use HMPro, the "expert" mech design tool)


Sorry mate, can you describe it for me? I tried to add some elements from the TT system based on what was described earlier in this thread, but downloading a full program for TT army building will just throw me - I won't near where or how to start!

#159 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:17 AM

@Wolvers "Yes and they want MechWarrior Online to be as close to the TT as possible, part of that is being able to customize." Unfortunately there is a problem. In the TT there was a price to all repairs and customisation in the TT apart from cost and that was time. The same rules that people want to use to legitamise doing anything they want to time, quite a lot to effectively build a new mech, let alone the time taken to deliver it from the factory to wherever you are. This, quite rightly, is declared unaceptable in a PC game online. What I want to know is, what is going to replace it? For the newcomers to BT/MW it is not a problem, they don't "know" that you can build a new mech in a few minutes in the "Mechlab" (itself a non canon creation for gaming convenience) so they will accept whatever system is in place. Just as they will accept the "stock" designs and variants that exist in the timeframe. As time is unacceptable I therefore ask again - what is going to replace it?
I agree with Hafinax and many others that unlimited customisation, at the start of the game will just be wrong for many of the reasons that have been repeated in this and other posts..
@Rogue Spear - in the SP games I, like you probably spent mor time in the Mechlab than I did playing. I used to keep replaying scenario's just to see how different combo's of designs did, or to see if I could come up with a "better" individual mech for my playstyles. I don't think that an on-line PvP only game can afford the luxury.

#160 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:24 AM

@Wolvers - this is an alternative program for designing mechs according to the TT http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/ - you'll see printouts produced by this in several mech design threads here. It's very easy to use. For here you need to set it to Late Succession Wars with a date of 3049. After that just add items. It tallies up as you go so you can't go overweight etc.

Edited by Nik Van Rhijn, 21 December 2011 - 02:24 AM.






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