655 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

Remember that the industrial capacity has been through the wringer after four Succession Wars. That's why LosTech was lost in the first place. The people in the BattleTech Universe are actually lucky that any manufacturing facilities survived at all, as the factories were prime targets to deny the enemy their weapons of war. They're also lucky that some smart people decided to hide their secrets so they could be found later.

[Fyrwulf]

Um, again, this isn't Mechwarrior 4. In BT the bottleneck is new weapons. New variants don't come out all that often unless somebody has a huge cache of new weapons and they figure whatever mech they want to modify can make effective use of them. Not only that, but there is literally a mech for every possible tactic and role you can think of.

[Vulpesveritas]

What about salvaged weapons? It's not like c-bills do you much good if you can't really spend them. And if the only thing they get spent on is repairs... that gets boring too. Sure I can change from mech to mech, but most mech designs are made with the intent of being used to a particular strategy / playtype. Now think of this, I find a mech i aestheticly love, is very close to my playtype, but one part of it is off for me, such as say too high heat, or too low ammo. Now, this causes the way I play a problem. I have 3 options: Find a different mech although the one I like Is almost what I want, Just have to change out that PPC for an autocannon, play as said mech even though i'll not do as well at it, or quit the game altogether as I'm not able to play with what I want.

While I would likely choose options 1 or 2, I must say it would make me less inclined to continue playing when another mech game with more customization comes out. I mean even in TT there is some customizing. So there should be some in-game, although the timespan it takes should also take into account it is a GAME. While the world moves real time, repairs and customization should be done quite a bit faster, as people don't want to have to wait a few weeks before they can play the game with their mech again.

And what about used parts/salvage?

[Gorith]

It is a game but wanting balance so that defense doesn't become an ineffective thing. When damage is super high in a game compared to defense it becomes pointless to field defensive units as they just get torn down before they can be effective.

[Skull Baron]

My question is would either of the poll potions allow for something along the lines of say...

Taking a base stock mech and say swapping out all its laser/energy weapons for ballistic equivalents ranging from machine guns, auto cannon to those gatling ultra autocannons ect, Or taking a mech and turning it more towards being a mobile artillery or missile platform ect with a complete weapon load out swap???

Yes I do intend to do stuff like this and if its possible I'm completely sold on this game.

As for the poll options do they roughly equate to this?
Complete pre-made armaments (Ability to customize afterwards) = Get the customized mech of your dreams later and work towards getting it.

Complete scratchbuild = Get the customized mech of your dreams as soon as possible.

Is this sorta the right interpretation of the poll options?

[Vulpesveritas]

So then what about one of the following?
1. set a limit to the level of offensive power any mech can have
2. limit maximum weight of all weapons on a mech based on weight class
3. Balance weapons vs armor
4. Make it so you can't just add weapons, adapt a 'hard point' system, where you can't adopt a weapon which takes more hard points. At least a three tier, if not more hard point system.

And it's somewhat what I got initially, though people seem to be taking it now for whether customization beyond preset variants should be implemented.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 08 January 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[Ceefood]

Vulpesveritas, on 08 January 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

What about salvaged weapons? It's not like c-bills do you much good if you can't really spend them. And if the only thing they get spent on is repairs... that gets boring too. Sure I can change from mech to mech, but most mech designs are made with the intent of being used to a particular strategy / playtype. Now think of this, I find a mech i aestheticly love, is very close to my playtype, but one part of it is off for me, such as say too high heat, or too low ammo. Now, this causes the way I play a problem. I have 3 options: Find a different mech although the one I like Is almost what I want, Just have to change out that PPC for an autocannon, play as said mech even though i'll not do as well at it, or quit the game altogether as I'm not able to play with what I want.

While I would likely choose options 1 or 2, I must say it would make me less inclined to continue playing when another mech game with more customization comes out. I mean even in TT there is some customizing. So there should be some in-game, although the timespan it takes should also take into account it is a GAME. While the world moves real time, repairs and customization should be done quite a bit faster, as people don't want to have to wait a few weeks before they can play the game with their mech again.

And what about used parts/salvage?

thats why I would like customisation in the mechlab - not to make a boat which ruins the fun of most people but to tweak my mech. get rid of the stupid flamer & MGs and throw in maybe some extra heat sinks or bit more armour or a med laser.

I also wouldnt mind upgrading the engine of my heavy mech to go a bit faster even if I sacrifice some weapons to get it

maybe the mechlab will have a testing area - I would guess not at launch but soon afterwards - where players could use the lab to customise their mech & take it for a test run in a test area to see how it works without affecting others Player vs AI. call it the mechlab simulator - your not actually piloting your mech your piloting the mechlabs simulator - I get this idea from the novels where characters would use sim pods which were very realistic to practice fighting without having to endanger themselves or their real mechs.

SO - mechs dont kill games for me BOATS do - but I still want my mechlab - hopefully PGI will come up with ways to stop the boaters & bring everyone to a level playing field

[banjoe]

I, for one, enjoy mechlab, and would rather see some form of customization. Perhaps weapon, equipment, armor, etc. purchases for a given chassis, that are stock, offered at a reduced rate. And non-stock weapons, equipment, armor, etc. costing more, and, a price for restructuring the new, weapon, equipment, armor, etc. location. Then a time componet, where it is quicker to repair/replace damaged stock parts, versus longer repair/replace times for custom refits.
Just my two cents

[Morashtak]

Must have missed the "One Account, One Pilot, One Mech" post. Or are we allowed more than one pilot/mech per account?

If the former than the time for retrofits must be minimal within reason so as not to make this "too real". Instant refits are a no-go as well. Some game balance is in order or we'll get insta-refits and unbalanced matches.

If the later will be content that when one mech is out of commision will just have to soldier on with the backup pilot/ride.

[Fyrwulf]

Again, the TT game allows a great deal of customization. You can even create your own mechs. But there are limitations that basically force balance on the game. From what I've read this game is going to be a true as possible to the TT game. It would be really nice if the game included something along the lines of the HeavyMetal software, wherein you can create a variant according to official BT rules and come out with the variant you really want. However, it just can't be for free; come up with whatever conversion rate you want, a custom variant has to cost money.

As for salvage, please try to remember you're fighting as part of a unit. In the BT universe, mercenary units usually have salvage rights and strip anything useful to pool repair resources. In house units it's not as big a deal, because they have a government backing them, but it's useful for field repairs.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As mentioned elsewhere salvage is not confirmed in game. Merc contracts may include pay in lieu of salvage as it would simplify the game economy and they would then be free to buy what they want.

[AlexHxyz]

i's say just make the mechlab the same as mw4. i loved it back then. simple/easy to use and it tells you exactly what you can and can't do to a mech.

also i'd say screw that hour long waits if a part gets damaged. if this game is action packed but you're gonna have to wait days and spend your boatloads of money to fix broken weapons, then everyone's gonna start using LRMs and camp rather than rush into battle. i agree that you need to spend at least something to fix weapons, but please make it manageable

[Nik Van Rhijn]

AlexHxyz, on 09 January 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

i's say just make the mechlab the same as mw4. i loved it back then. simple/easy to use and it tells you exactly what you can and can't do to a mech.

also i'd say screw that hour long waits if a part gets damaged. if this game is action packed but you're gonna have to wait days and spend your boatloads of money to fix broken weapons, then everyone's gonna start using LRMs and camp rather than rush into battle. i agree that you need to spend at least something to fix weapons, but please make it manageable

With regard to the Mechlab in MW4 - a lot of people would disagree with you.
With regard to repairs, most people are advocating no time, just costs for repairs.
The arguement is mainly over how customisation is done. The TT rules lay down in great detail what the costs and times to do customisation are. Minor changes - dropping MG's for armour etc are relatively cheap and quick.
The previous iterations of MW have basically been single player games with a multiplayer component (except for MW1) where time for customisation made no sense. This is a PvP online only game. It makes sense that extensive customisation ie making effectively a new mech should take time and money. Such "customistion" has no grounding in the BTU for all & sundry.Yes changes should apply in converting to a computer game, just not throwing out the rules totally. Otherwise it just becomes Gundam.

[althorin]

only got 6 pages before i felt the need to post so i appologise if this has come up

I Like the time delay idea on customisation but what if it was a Downtime clock ie: 1hr of you being off line per 100k refit cost. You can still play with your UNmodified mech during this time but the refit clock only counts down when you are not on the battlefield (as techs cant work when being shot at). once the clock runs out you get your refit.

I also liked the limited repair idea but think implementing it would be a problem. sitting waiting is not a game.

however what if you could sign up for say 3-5 maches in a row on the same planet and BOTH sides mechs suffer battle damage and may find a battlefeild refit happening ("what do you meen you had to swap out my LBX as we only have normal rounds left!!!!!!!") ofc this would depend upon who won damage taken etc.....

But bottom line mech needs customisation its a core part of the canon and makes your mech personal and it also needs to be restrictive for non omnimechs and have a simplistic lab for noobies. the pure maths of mech design is what put me off CBT did really enjoy the clicky game though

[althorin]

also with the downtime clock idea maybe you could set an order of work such as the autocannon first and they come in as the individual bits are finished

[Gattling Fenn]

The impression I got is that this means would we rather just customize our mech loadouts, or customize the items in those loadouts as well. Example, being able to adjust the damage and cooldown time of a PPC.

[Fyrwulf]

Gattling Fenn, on 09 January 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Example, being able to adjust the damage and cooldown time of a PPC.

To do that you have to modify the mech in other ways. Double heatsinks for increased cooling. As for increased damage, the Clan ER PPC is going to be your best bet, as it has a range advantage over the much later Heavy PPC. Actually, from my reading the Draconis Combine has three PPC programs that produce deployable weapons in 3067.

[Ceefood]

Fyrwulf, on 09 January 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

To do that you have to modify the mech in other ways. Double heatsinks for increased cooling. As for increased damage, the Clan ER PPC is going to be your best bet, as it has a range advantage over the much later Heavy PPC. Actually, from my reading the Draconis Combine has three PPC programs that produce deployable weapons in 3067.

@Fyr I cant know Gattlings mind but I think he is referring to an idea that was brought up earlier which is that PGI bring in variants weapons. eg. PPC 1 normal as per TT rules, PPC 2 increased damage but also increased heat same weight & space vs PPC 1, PPC 2 decreased damage & heat same weight & space vs PPC 1 - so if this is what he meant then you could give your mech a variant loadout but switching PPC type 1 with a PPC type 2 at minimal time & cost allowing customisation but not full customisation

[Lt Shortcut]

Red Beard, on 16 December 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

What Gorith said. Stock variants only. No Frankenmechs.

You scared?

[JoeJJohnsonII]

TL\Dr
There has to be the option to do heavy customization. It's one of the best features of the previous mechwarrior games. I would love it if the developers gave you the option to purchase just the frame or a fully configured mech. I dont think I ever went with a standard load out before, and I dont plan on doing so in MWO.