30 replies to this topic

[SlippnGriff]

This is the minimum amount of skill points you need to invest into this headache of a tree
If you're looking to save as many skill points as possible but want full cooling efficiency, reference this. There's 10 heat skills, and the rest are junk skills. Here's the best way to those 10 heat skills.

note: You don't need to have speed retention at the top row, can choose improved gyros. Either or, it doesn't matter.



I tried to make it simple. Yellow circles are what you want, red lines are the path taken.

I personally feel this tree should not have hill climb/speed retention/gyros, as it seems like they kind of threw those in with the rest on this tree. But basically what I found with the skill tree is, invest into mech operations like this, get a decent amount of agility to your liking (near full tree most of the time) and the rest is the extra points you get to throw around.

[Deathlike]

While heat capacity (containment) is a thing, the ability to cool more of it down quicker is more beneficial. I mean, you usually use more DHS as a buffer, and increasing that buffer kinda helps with the larger heat-based alphas (usually ERPPC based once)... but dissipation (Cool Run) is a lot stronger due to your DHS used (especially if you have more of it on hotter mechs). You can only get so much heat gen reduction for it to matter though (which is limited to 10.5% total @ best).

[Khobai]

operations tree is useless

50% of the good skills are walled behind bad skills

youre basically wasting half the skill points you put into that tree

youre better off just putting the points into the heat skills on the weapon tree


if for some reason you absolutely have to put points into operations I wouldnt go any deeper into the tree than the first 3-5 heat skills.

Edited by Khobai, 17 May 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yeah Ops with a 20 point investment is pretty much must have. I kind of feel heavy investment in Ops and Agility is critical for mech performance. I have never had a mech that was too fast, too agile or too cool running so I think it would be crazy not to spec these two trees. That leaves very little for actual customization.

[Khobai]

what are you running thats so hot you need 20 points in ops?

weapons have been significantly slowed down across the board, I find myself not needing heat skills at all with most builds

[process]

Heat dissipation, seismic, and radar dep: whatever it takes to unlock those. The remaining points you do what you like with. Ballistics boats can skip the operations tree entirely.

[Wattila]

I'd put 11 points minimum for 3 Cool Run and Heat Containment nodes. It's the same number of nodes to get the remaining two or skill double cool shot, which one would you take?

[Scyther]

Mostly I use an Ops tree that looks like that, however when I need more Firepower or Mobility and have to steal points from somewhere, I trim off the middle left Heat Containment and/or the middle right Improved Gyros and Heat Containment. Heat Containment is nice but I can work around it, it's mostly the Cool Runs I want.

[Karl Marlow]

The minimum investment is 0 points.

Most of the mechs I've worked on so far I've bypassed that one altogether.

[SlippnGriff]

Khobai, on 17 May 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

what are you running thats so hot you need 20 points in ops?

weapons have been significantly slowed down across the board, I find myself not needing heat skills at all with most builds

putting what I have shown gets your mech to where it was if you had it mastered before the skill tree patch

[Khobai]

yeah but mechs dont need the same skills now that they had before

because the rate of fire has been significantly decreased. I find you dont need heat skills as much.

[SlippnGriff]

Khobai, on 17 May 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

yeah but mechs dont need the same skills now that they had before

because the rate of fire has been significantly decreased. I find you dont need heat skills as much.

That's true. Never said you needed a max mech ops. tree for every build either. The tree is now more of if you want better sustained combat or something. Can get away with just a couple of points in the tree as well if you have the extra points. The tree is just way too bad with the terrible skills blocking what you want in the end

[Bishop Steiner]

SlippnGriff, on 17 May 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

This is the minimum amount of skill points you need to invest into this headache of a tree
If you're looking to save as many skill points as possible but want full cooling efficiency, reference this. There's 10 heat skills, and the rest are junk skills. Here's the best way to those 10 heat skills.

note: You don't need to have speed retention at the top row, can choose improved gyros. Either or, it doesn't matter.



I tried to make it simple. Yellow circles are what you want, red lines are the path taken.

I personally feel this tree should not have hill climb/speed retention/gyros, as it seems like they kind of threw those in with the rest on this tree. But basically what I found with the skill tree is, invest into mech operations like this, get a decent amount of agility to your liking (near full tree most of the time) and the rest is the extra points you get to throw around.

for me, I'm pretty comfortable so far like this. I pick up more in the Firepower Web, anyhow.

I do feel that about 3/4 of Operations is pretty optimal returns, and it's the ONLY Web I feel is a must do.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 May 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[SlippnGriff]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

for me, I'm pretty comfortable so far like this. I pick up more in the Firepower Web, anyhow.

Think of it this way guys, helping out newbies with the skill tree in some way here (idk if there are any newbies that know how to navigate the tree, let alone buy skill points)
Everyone has their own preferences

[Bishop Steiner]

SlippnGriff, on 17 May 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Think of it this way guys, helping out newbies with the skill tree in some way here (idk if there are any newbies that know how to navigate the tree, let alone buy skill points)
Everyone has their own preferences

agreed.

And even vets are apparently being gobsmacked by the scale of things, judging by comments. SO I am all for all the help and tutorials possible. I may be pro Skill Tree (well, I'm technically anti Skill Tree, but figure if we have to have one, I prefer this to what we had), but I definitely have a feeling a lot of the New Guys, or even experienced Casuals who don't frequent the Forums, patched, logged on.... and about had an aneurysm. Either when they dropped blindly in match and realized something wasn't right, or went to hit Skills and were just like..... Oh. My.

I find it pretty easy to navigate and do, but that's because I spent a LOT of hours in the PTS. Even so, it's going to be weeks, or more of fine tuning, to truly find the optimal balances, etc.

[SlippnGriff]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

agreed.

And even vets are apparently being gobsmacked by the scale of things, judging by comments. SO I am all for all the help and tutorials possible. I may be pro Skill Tree (well, I'm technically anti Skill Tree, but figure if we have to have one, I prefer this to what we had), but I definitely have a feeling a lot of the New Guys, or even experienced Casuals who don't frequent the Forums, patched, logged on.... and about had an aneurysm. Either when they dropped blindly in match and realized something wasn't right, or went to hit Skills and were just like..... Oh. My.

I find it pretty easy to navigate and do, but that's because I spent a LOT of hours in the PTS. Even so, it's going to be weeks, or more of fine tuning, to truly find the optimal balances, etc.

The UI and purchasing of skill points, etc. is way too confusing for some. It could have been optimized way better without a load of options everywhere without knowing what to click first (especially for those that do not go on forums). There's also the skills you want that are shrouded by bad skills you wouldn't even bat an eye at before the skill tree patch. It's gunna be a process to fine tune this. But at least now they have a baseline

Oh yea, another reason why I wanted to post this was because I saw even well known players/streamers thought they had to max out the tree or something. Idk lots of confusion lol

Edited by SlippnGriff, 17 May 2017 - 05:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

SlippnGriff, on 17 May 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

The UI and purchasing of skill points, etc. is way too confusing for some. It could have been optimized way better without a load of options everywhere without knowing what to click first (especially for those that do not go on forums). There's also the skills you want that are shrouded by bad skills you wouldn't even bat an eye at before the skill tree patch. It's gunna be a process to fine tune this. But at least now they have a baseline

I think one thing that folks need to do though is realize those "bad skills" aren't going away. Some may be tweaked a bit, but the gating is intentional, and going to stay. Some folk may not like that, but better to just get that out of the way now, then have people get their hopes up and get em dashed.

Still, between tweaks to this, baseline mech and weapon balance, and of course upcoming NewTech? Gonna be...interesting times.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 May 2017 - 05:13 PM.

[SlippnGriff]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 May 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

I think one thing that folks need to do though is realize those "bad skills" aren't going away. Some may be tweaked a bit, but the gating is intentional, and going to stay. Some folk may not like that, but better to just get that out of the way now, then have people get their hopes up and get em dashed.

Still, between tweaks to this, baseline mech and weapon balance, and of course upcoming NewTech? Gonna be...interesting times.

True with the unwanted skills. They kind of 'have to' be there, but my theory is just what I used before skill tree patch. If I didn't use speed retention before the patch, I'm not gunna want to use it after. Though there's not much you can do about it you're right

I'm all for something new with this game lol, so let the skill tree madness rage on. I'm really wanting the new tech and my MKII so bad tho I feel ya

[Khobai]

the bad skills need to go away

if every skill node costs 1 skill point then every skill node needs to be worth 1 skill point. its that simple

if that means combining some of the bad nodes into one node or breaking some of the good nodes into multiple nodes thats what needs to be done

but every skill node should be equally worth taking


something like 5% hill climb is not worth 1 skill point. period.

so instead of having like three skill nodes that are 5% hillclimb just combine them into one skill node thats 15% hill climb. 15% hillclimb for 1 skill point isnt that bad anymore.

they need to cut all the bloat out of the skill tree by combining the useless skills into useful ones.

Edited by Khobai, 17 May 2017 - 05:38 PM.

[SlippnGriff]

Khobai, on 17 May 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

the bad skills need to go away

if every skill node costs 1 skill point then every skill node needs to be worth 1 skill point. its that simple

if that means combining some of the bad nodes into one node or breaking some of the good nodes into multiple nodes thats what needs to be done

but every skill node should be equally worth taking


something like 5% hill climb is not worth 1 skill point. period.

so instead of having like three skill nodes that are 5% hillclimb just combine them into one skill node thats 15% hill climb. 15% hillclimb for 1 skill point isnt that bad anymore.

they need to cut all the bloat out of the skill tree by combining the useless skills into useful ones.

I know what you're saying, before skill tree you had to drop like 3mil and gxp to get better hill climb. Like it was the option to go all in on it or not and you would sacrifice a module spot for it. With the skill tree you most likely sacrifice a few points into the firepower tree. I honestly don't know how one would fix this as to not overpower an aspect. Eh, will play it by ear with the updates