79 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

I'm pretty sure people wanted some idea of how your mech's base agility compares with others.

IMPORTANT INFO AND WARNING:
I would like to point out that I'm only using the reference acceleration values (all the other values like decel, turn speed, etc. are all derived by some formula and will be consistent outside of poor Excel-SpreadsheetWarrior) and that any values in game that don't match up (usually special variants like the Timberwolf-C(S)) are likely an error in PGI's copypasta efforts.


84.6 - Locust (1M, 1V, 3S, 3V)
80 - Commando (all)
77.69 - Locust (1E, 3M, Pirate's Bane)
75.39 - Spider (5D, 5V, Anansi)
70.76 - Spider (5K)
66.15 - Assassin (all)
63.85 - Jenner (all except Oxide)
61.55 - Viper (all except C)
59.24 - Mist Lynx (all), Ice Ferret (all)
54.63 - Wolfhound (all), Cicada (all)
52.31 - Jenner (Oxide), Phoenix Hawk (all)
50 - Urbanmech (all), Raven (4X), Kitfox (all), Arctic Cheetah (all), Jenner-IIC (all)
47.71 - Wolverine (all), Dragon (all), Quickdraw (4G, IV-Four), Viper (C)
45.39 - Centurion (Yen Lo Wang), Linebacker (all)
43.08 - Firestarter (all), Panther (all), Raven (all except 4X), Quickdraw (4H, 5K), Adder (all)
40.79 - Summoner (all)
33.86 - Centurion (D), Bushwacker (X2), Kintaro (all), Thunderbolt (Top Dog)
31.55 - Vindicator (all), Blackjack (all), Stormcrow (all)
29.26 - Centurion (A, AH, AL), Crab (all), Enforcer (all), Hunchback (all), Trebuchet (all), Catapult (Butterbee, Jester), Grasshopper (all), Huntsman (all), Nova (all), Gargoyle (all)
26.94 - Bushwacker (all except X2), Griffin (all), Shadowhawk (all), Zeus (all)
24.63 - Rifleman (all), Catapult (C4), Black Knight (6), Marauder (all), Victor (all), Cyclops (all), Maddog (all), Executioner (all)
22.33 - Catapult (A1, C1, K2), Jagermech (all), Roughneck (all), Thunderbolt (all except Top Dog), Highlander (all), Ebon Jaguar (all), Hellbringer (all)
20.02 - Archer (all), Cataphract (all), Warhammer (all), Awesome (Pretty Baby), Battlemaster (all), Hunchback-IIC (all), Highlander-IIC (all)
17.72 - Black Knight (all except 6), Orion (all), Banshee (all except 3S), Onion-IIC (all), Timberwolf (all), Warhawk (all)
15.41 - Awesome (all except Pretty Baby), Stalker (3FB), Supernova (1)
13.11 - Stalker (all except 3FB), Banshee (3S), Night Gyr (all), Marauder-IIC (all), Supernova (3, A)
10.79 - Mauler (all), Atlas (Boar's Head), Supernova (B, Boiler, C)
8.5 - Atlas (K), Kodiak (2,4,5)
6.19 - Atlas (D-DC, D, RS, S), King Crab (all), Direwolf (all), Kodiak (3, Spirit Bear)

EDIT:
Complete AFAIK (with possible errors)

All based on the 5/16/17 Quirk Sheet.
https://static.mwome...re%20Quirks.pdf
https://static.mwome...an%20Quirks.pdf

Edit #2:
Specified hero mechs where applicable.

Edit: #3
Linked Mcgral18's handy comparison of before/after skill tree comparisons with regards to torso twist speed:
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5748071


I suggested this idea to Mcgral and he did all the work putting together the image/spreadsheet.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 May 2017 - 07:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Good info.

Will say the Spirit Bear got pretty unfairly butt reamed, considering getting into peoples face is it's whole thing. Even with MASC it is only partially overcome.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Why did the Ravens, Firestarters, and Panthers get hammered so hard......seriously, they got hit worse than the Cheetah...

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 May 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Good info.

Will say the Spirit Bear got pretty unfairly butt reamed, considering getting into peoples face is it's whole thing. Even with MASC it is only partially overcome.

The thing about the Spirit Bear is that it has 4x LESS agility than the Executioner that has it locked onto it.

You would have to make a special exception for the Spirit Bear or some stupid buff to that level of MASC because 4x is pretty significant.

[Y E O N N E]

I knew my MLX-B felt more sluggish. For being so slow and squishy, it should be as agile as the Commando.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Why did the Ravens, Firestarters, and Panthers get hammered so hard......seriously, they got hit worse than the Cheetah...

Adding insult to injury, the torso on the Firestarter takes forever to align with the arms, making skilling up the torso speed mandatory.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 May 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I knew my MLX-B felt more sluggish. For being so slow and squishy, it should be as agile as the Commando.

Adding insult to injury, the torso on the Firestarter takes forever to align with the arms, making skilling up the torso speed mandatory.

Yeah, I think they went a little crazy with some of these values, I mean the Gargoyle is as agile as the Nova and Huntsman (which is scary given how potent pushes already were in 6v6 domination), which basically means it is the same as if engines were still coupled to speed.....

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Why did the Ravens, Firestarters, and Panthers get hammered so hard......seriously, they got hit worse than the Cheetah...

PGI based this junk off of stock engines, even though the whole freaking point of decoupling was to help mechs with small stock engines.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 18 May 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

The thing about the Spirit Bear is that it has 4x LESS agility than the Executioner that has it locked onto it.

You would have to make a special exception for the Spirit Bear or some stupid buff to that level of MASC because 4x is pretty significant.

Which is why I noted it as being broken. The KDK3, DWF.... make sense. Atlas...well, stock, maybe-ish, since they aren't "intended" to be SRM boats..... but even stock, 75% of their firepower i short range oriented. Ditto KGC.

I'm not against decreasing baselines, but it seems like some of the final products are way out of whack with intended design.

[Mister Blastman]

Deathlike, on 18 May 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

The thing about the Spirit Bear is that it has 4x LESS agility than the Executioner that has it locked onto it.

You would have to make a special exception for the Spirit Bear or some stupid buff to that level of MASC because 4x is pretty significant.

Well the Executioner does need the agility buffs that it has. Might as well give the Spirit Bear some too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 18 May 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well the Executioner does need the agility buffs that it has. Might as well give the Spirit Bear some too.

Maybe, though the Spirit BEar can pack nearly twice the tonnage of firepower. So I would say somewhat less than the EXE would be the sweet spot. But for sure more than this Spirit Sloth nonsense is currently has.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Which is why I noted it as being broken. The KDK3, DWF.... make sense. Atlas...well, stock, maybe-ish, since they aren't "intended" to be SRM boats..... but even stock, 75% of their firepower i short range oriented. Ditto KGC.

I'm not against decreasing baselines, but it seems like some of the final products are way out of whack with intended design.

Well, you were dismissive the first time I brought this up when the last PTS happened, and now it's a reality.

Math and relative comparisons is NOT PGI's Forte.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 18 May 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

Well, you were dismissive the first time I brought this up when the last PTS happened, and now it's a reality.

Math and relative comparisons is NOT PGI's Forte.

No, actually, I don't believe I was. There was plenty you were saying I did dismiss/disagree with (and probably still do), but (IIRC), I don't believe slow Spirit Bear was one of them. In fact I know I debated this very point and specifics with CK16 and Pariah, and in PTS3 noted it was an issue.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 May 2017 - 04:54 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

No, actually, I don't believe I was. There was plenty you were saying I did dismiss/disagree with (and probably still do), but (IIRC), I don't believe slow Spirit Bear was one of them. In fact I know I debated this very point and specifics with CK16 and Pariah, and in PTS3 noted it was an issue.

https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1

Bishop Steiner, on 02 May 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

1) Engine Desync - So a KDK-3, Atlas, and King Crab walk into a bar have the same agility...


Well that's just incorrect. The 100 ton class (actually ALL tonnage classes) will have a base agility, which will be modified on a per chassis basis, based on designed role, and yes, by their commentary, to some degree still, engine size.

Usually a bad sign when your first premise out the gate is false. I do hope that is just honest mistake, and not intentional (hard to tell with all the agendas out there these days), but it does not seem to bode well for accuracy of research, either way.

You skimmed it w/o reading why I said what I said. While untrue on the live servers previously, it was completely TRUE on the PTS and now live.

So no.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 May 2017 - 05:01 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Li Song seems to have the old values (maybe)
Whatever's stored on it, quirks seem to be right (ie, 5% less heat Prime ST, to the current 2.5%)


I guess I'll make a chart of some popular robots (like I said I could two weeks ago)
I can look up (or you can download) any requested robot.
With efficiencies or not

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 May 2017 - 05:10 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Not sure why the KDK-2,4,5 are more special than the King Crabs because they are definitely not as deserving of agility as the King Crabs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 18 May 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1




You skimmed it w/o reading why I said what I said. While untrue on the live servers previously, it was completely TRUE on the PTS and now live.

So no.

Yes. I was incorrect.

which is a far cry from saying there isn't a problem with it. Because if you read what I said:

"The 100 ton class (actually ALL tonnage classes) will have a base agility, which will be modified on a per chassis basis, based on designed role, and yes, by their commentary, to some degree still, engine size." is completely in line with my first comment on this thread.

Those are supposed to be modified. I was wrong that it had been done on PTS3 (because it HAD been done on PTS2, IIRC).

So.... again..that has exactly what to do with me agreeing with you in this? At no point did I say a Spirit Bear or Brawler was supposed to be slow in that. In fact while my info was wrong.... the point I was making... actually agrees with your OP on this thread.

But I guess, if a person is wrong about how something was implemented in the past...he should stick to it, and pretend otherwise? I'm really not seeing your point.

In what way, shape or form does that post have ANYTHING to do with what I posted on here? If I posted wrong info about SRM spread in the past.... I don't cling to it and try to pretend it's correct.

But hey, if you prefer I just disagree with everything you say out of some basic principle, I suppose I can do that. It would be stupid, but this is the internet, so......

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

Not sure why the KDK-2,4,5 are more special than the King Crabs because they are definitely not as deserving of agility as the King Crabs.

Only KDKs that should be "deserving" would be the 1 and SB. And only KGC that shouldn't be "deserving" is the dual gauss model, since that one was a stand off weapon.

Mcgral18, on 18 May 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

Li Song seems to have the old values (maybe)
Whatever's stored on it, quirks seem to be right (ie, 5% less heat Prime ST, to the current 2.5%)


I guess I'll make a chart of some popular robots (like I said I could two weeks ago)
I can look up (or you can download) any requested robot.
With efficiencies or not

So are all the build sites currently borked? When I was on Smurfy (yesterday) all the quirk info seemed like it was old data, since all the IS mechs had offensive quirks listed.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

Only KDKs that should be "deserving" would be the 1 and SB. And only KGC that shouldn't be "deserving" is the dual gauss model, since that one was a stand off weapon.

All KGC's deserve it because they are some of the weakest set, well outside the AS7-K and AS7-BH.

[Bud Crue]

Hmm...why did they change things I wonder...so much between the second iteration of the first PTS and the second PTS to now? I refuse to believe that it was due to actual data or feed back as I was on a lot and never say mor than 1-2 people on at any given time. but some of these values are incredibly different than their test values or even any suggested extrapolation. Yet in some cases the comparative values are the same (Butterbee vs Jester) despite people commenting/complaining during the PTSes.

Not a complaint, for in most cases that I care about (hurrah for my Quickdraws) but comparatively absurd (why is an uber armor quirked Dragon just as or more agile than a Quickdraw?).

Its just odd.

[Glaive-]

You forgot the Adder, but overall is a good list. Thanks for the compilation

[Deathlike]

armyunit, on 18 May 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

You forgot the Adder, but overall is a good list. Thanks for the compilation

Fixed.