56 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

There's also the 8 month old little girl that loves to bash my keyboard or mouse, often causing me to lose everything I typed (which is another reason for that bad habbit of posting frequently / editing, etc.)

Wence the Wanderer, on 22 May 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

And that is part of why they will not do it.

You are requesting that they take everything they have done...
And throw it in the garbage.

How many companies do that?
How many companies take that request seriously?

The more you talk, the less credibility your idea has.

No matter how badly they have done.
NO COMPANY WILL JUST DO THAT.
They may modify what they have, but they do not simply throw it all away.

I know they won't.
That isn't the point.
The point is if they had done it from the beginning, designed it the way they said they were designing it (based on tabletop), they wouldn't have to do any of this.

This is why it's a Hypothetical thread about a BattleTech Simulator which I had invited you to indulge in that discussion of what could be if it was competently attempted. You clearly haven't read much if anything.

Edited by Koniving, 22 May 2017 - 08:04 AM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

The point is ...

The point is that they followed the same pattern of every single other game in the series.

Being upset that they did not follow the lore better is stupid.
Blaming PGI for that stuff is foolish at best

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

There's also the 8 month old little girl that loves to bash my keyboard or mouse, often causing me to lose everything I typed (which is another reason for that bad habbit of posting frequently / editing, etc.)

No worries mate

I am currently borrowing my parent's PC (as mine is down) and am stuck using IE to do this... on a slow PC with a weirdly spaced keyboard.
Edit:
Adding much to my frustration with you, for which I apologize.

Edited by Wence the Wanderer, 22 May 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Vonbach]

Will they ever balance clan? Nope they'll just keep buffing them. Like they just did.

Edited by Vonbach, 22 May 2017 - 08:05 AM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

You clearly haven't read much if anything.

You clearly have not read what I have been typing either.

You keep posting that it is PGI's fault. As if PGI is the first and only company to ever do this.

My big point is that not only is it NOT PGI'S FAULT - but that expecting them to change it (as you keep implying they should) is infantile.

[Koniving]

I'm not upset, though PGI's poor decisions in regards to balance (namely bandaids instead of fixing core issues such as rising thresholds) is entirely on them, regardless of whether or not they followed BT or not.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Vonbach, on 22 May 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Will they ever balance clan? Nope they'll just keep buffing them. Like they just did.

They have tried
Repatedly.

The PLAYERBASE threw such a fit, and threw in so many refunds that it wasn't functional

Remember when the TBR had negative quirks?
Remember how the playerbase reacted?

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'm not upset....

So you say, and yet you keep blaming PGI.
Even in that post.

THAT is part of why you keep losing credibility

Edited by Wence the Wanderer, 22 May 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Koniving]

Wence the Wanderer, on 22 May 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

You clearly have not read what I have been typing either.

You keep posting that it is PGI's fault. As if PGI is the first and only company to ever do this.

My big point is that not only is it NOT PGI'S FAULT - but that expecting them to change it (as you keep implying they should) is infantile.

PGI is the first company to create new problems in an age old formula. And correct, it is not all PGI's fault.

However, while Alpha Strikes had always been an issue due to poor designs, they weren't easy to do in the past. PGI has created an on the fly group changing system and easy access to all weapons, making them easier to do. That's a good thing for the most part. But then it gets worse..
PGI increased threshold from the extremely high 60 that MW4 has... to 139 maximum possible (with the old skill tree) because PGI threw a threshold on top of cooling for heatsinks and added it to mech threshold.
This is further compounded by the original skill tree which took the original concept of choice, made them a one way street, and instead of low percentages they were extreme percentages... and then by replacing time delayed convergence (which was poorly designed in the first place) with perfect instant convergence. (With the 'net' restrictions, they could easily have set target convergence to match the distance of enemies you have targeted, and left weapons not converged if there is no target).

Then Ghost heat is a new creation, a bandaid for this issue rather than a fix of the many issues caused by the incredibly high thresholds.

1x armor/structure was pretty standard in the actual Mechwarrior games, though weapons fired faster. PGI is the first to make 2x plus armor/structure within a "Mechwarrior" game. Now you must have two Gauss Rifles to equal one Gauss Rifle. This is in addition to three times the amount of cooling power to make up for the heat generated for the average weapon.

A list can go on. But ultimately PGI's faults are their own.

PGI isn't the first to use 'quirks' so to speak, but the approach of 50% increases to things made by Russ at one point gave us a lot of problems that PGI has only recently recognized as having been a bad move, hence the new skill tree. Ironically, if PGI had gone the original direction they stated for quirks and their purpose, we would have a very different game where we have positive and negative quirks, where we weigh the merits and downfalls of whether we use more hardpoints (negative quirks), average hardpoints (no quirks), or fewer hardpoints (positive quirks).

It seems you're really, really fixated on this "upset with PGI" thing, though. If that were the case I wouldn't be a helper here, let alone have been so for 5 years and recognized by the title "Welcoming Committee."
I wouldn't be defending their good decisions when they make them.

Nor would I not just disagree with most about the Clan superiority, but I frequently point out the IS superiority, and point out that PGI has been buffing the Clans discretely over time, time and time again, to try and keep the Clans caught up to the IS in balance while many just see a few outlying mechs.

Not being completely at fault does not exonerate from actual faults. Nor does calling out fault where it is due a sign of being "upset" or "Blaming."

But again, this is not the place for this discussion.

You may want to calm down, too, dude. You're freaking out.

[TripleEhBeef]

And here I was thinking that IS lights were superior to Clan ones.

The Cheetah and Jenner IIC are very powerful, but the Kit Fox and Adder are far to slow to mix things up with IS lights out in the open, unless you run into a dedicated streakboat build. And those two can't stand against IS mediums like the Griffin, Shadowhawk, Cent, Hunchie, or Crab in a straight fight, so saying they bring the firepower and endurance of a medium to a fight is a bit much.

The poor Mist Kitten was hunted to extinction, what, 3-4 months after it initially dropped? Think I have one as a rug in my Mechbay somewhere.

[Tesunie]

TripleEhBeef, on 28 May 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

... but the Kit Fox and Adder are far to slow to mix things up with IS lights out in the open, unless you run into a dedicated streakboat build. And those two can't stand against IS mediums like the Griffin, Shadowhawk, Cent, Hunchie, or Crab in a straight fight, so saying they bring the firepower and endurance of a medium to a fight is a bit much.

They can bring the firepower of a medium mech on the chassis of a light to a fight. They don't exactly bring the endurance of a medium though, and take hits like a light or light medium (depending upon quirks).

The Adder and Kitfox are very good mechs, depending upon how you use them. Use them like a light mech, and they are going to self destruct (or near about something like that). You want to treat them like a fast and squishy medium mech more than as a traditional (MW:O version) light mech.

Kinda like the Urbanmech, but where as the Adder and Kitfox have the firepower, the Urbanmech has the health quirks, giving it the health of basically a 50 ton mech...

[JC Daxion]

Medicine Man, on 18 May 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

What Im talking about is how massively OP the clan light mechs are compared to IS light mechs. Clan lights have the firepower and endurance of IS mediums! Its so glaringly obvious. The clan lights are what made me quit the first time and one day back its about to again. Why play a game at such obvious disadvantage. Im really glad I played awhile before letting the new skill system talk me into buying some new mechs. Im just frustrated now. If id bought something Id.be breathing fire.

I dont see any change at all from when i left. Clan lights were Op then and they still are.

I can say for sure right now, the commando is kicking some serious butt. You don't wanna run across one of these, i don't care if you are in an ARC or not. The typical build in an ARC is 6 SPL, or some mediums with some SL's Both run hot as hell. The JJ's do give it a bit of an advantage for elevation, but the commando is faster, runs cooler, and has twice the armor. Clan lights Don't have the armor of a IS medium, nor the structure, that is just false. Even the load out is not that great, its some lasers for the most part. Typically people don't run missile builds in them due to weight issues.

I think people are going to learn sooner than later there is a new kid on the block.. Err old kick that came back to kick arse. Playing commandos these last few days, i have had some nasty fights with some arc's and came out on top, and still with armor. The one thing ARC's have going for them, the hit boxes are good, But they have a huge weakness. Their legs are very weak, and typically they are short range, and run scorching hot. The key with them is to give them a prolonged engagement. The longer you engage them in the fight, the more likely you are to Far out DPS them.


Messing around with the Adder today, i found it pretty solid, but it's kinda slow, and if you get into trouble your dead. It's not like all clan lights are OP, and the ARC, runs hotter, and is a bit less mobile than before.

Yes i think a few other IS mechs could be buffed, Firestarter for one, but honestly i am curious how the LFE are goign to come in to play in July. I just hope the commando doesn't get nerfed, it really is a worth while mech to take on the feild again. It's not OP, but in the right hands deadly. But i have not put much time in other lights mechs as of yet. Eqaul pilots, i'd have to say the commando has the edge right now, unless you are in a tricky area that JJ's can really add to an advantage.

[JC Daxion]

Vonbach, on 22 May 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Will they ever balance clan? Nope they'll just keep buffing them. Like they just did.

lots of IS got buffed in the skill tree. they might not be the ones everyone said were top mechs last month but many are kicking serious tale right now. So much infact i hope that PGI is slow with he nerf bat for a while. I wan't some IS dominance for a while, thank you very much.. (PS i'm having fun in a bunch of my clanners too!)

[TripleEhBeef]

I've been having a blast in my Commados too. Took a bit of experimentation with the skill tree, but I feel like I've got them dialed in now.

Protip: Max cooldowns.

[Tesunie]

TripleEhBeef, on 04 June 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

I've been having a blast in my Commados too. Took a bit of experimentation with the skill tree, but I feel like I've got them dialed in now.

Protip: Max cooldowns.

A good example of IS mechs making a "comeback", not to mention the ST "revitalizing old junk mechs and making them good again".

[General Solo]

Join the Dark side and get a clan mech already

greener pastures and all dat

[April Showers]

ok, this is basically that old 1989 question revisited: will FASA ever balance the clans.
anything to go by from the tabletop, the answer is no. they did not fix it in those 28 years.
Instead they chose to run a wildly speculative story arc that offended like 80% of our local battletech population enough to stop buying new stuff...

"those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it."

[Rogue Jedi]

April Showers, on 07 June 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

ok, this is basically that old 1989 question revisited: will FASA ever balance the clans.
anything to go by from the tabletop, the answer is no. they did not fix it in those 28 years.
Instead they chose to run a wildly speculative story arc that offended like 80% of our local battletech population enough to stop buying new stuff...

"those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it."

you have people who argue both sides, many Clanners complain about at least a few IS Mechs, and many IS players complain about a few Clan Mechs, I believe they are pretty well balenced with a few on each side which are overpowered compaired to the average.

And PGI did learn, they are trying not to repeat the mistakes of the past, to the point that there are many IS Mechs that compete evenly or better with 80% of Clan Mechs.
yes there are a few outlying Clan Mechs that outperform 90% of IS Mechs but most IS Mechs are about even with most Clan Mechs

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 07 June 2017 - 08:55 AM.

[April Showers]

Rogue, the clans never where intended as a even match. They are the evil "alien overlords" that come smack up everyone but have a severe supply issue. And hard rules of behaviour.

the rules and the supply issue where supposed to keep them in check. but they never mattered in the tabletop in the first place. and they sure as hell dont matter here.

i think it is good work to balance all the mechs via quirks, but thats the same issue again.

had they stayed with 3025 aka Tier 1 Tech, they would not have that issue in the first place.

well, unless you start figuring out the real weight of components.
2 medium laser - 2 tons, + 6 heat sinks (6 tons) = 8 tons, 8 slots. does 2x5 damage. - 1.6 tons per damage, 1.6 slots per damage.

2 medium laser - 2 tons + 3 double heat sinks (3 tons) = 5 tons, 11 slots, does 2x5 damage. - 0.5 tons per damage, 2.2 slots per damage

2 c-medium ER laser - 2 tons + 5 double heat sinks (5 tons) = 7 tons, 12 slots, does 2x7 damage. 0.5 tons per damage, 1.7 slots per damage.

the new stuff hits the slots treshhold a lot easier. those 10 DHS with the engine become a huge asset. the number of slots in IS endo and ferro become a huge liability, as becomes the DHS size (+50%). they can't balance that well. ever. (because: math - buffs is a workaround...)

as soon as your going for range, your yielding to clan ranges. as soon as your going for brawl, lower IS heat will be a point. anyone using that inefficient ferro fibrous stuff outside of lights or clan mediums over endo is wasting tons. if you look at the invest in slots, the clans get +20% armour gift if they use 12 vs 14 slots for free. or get more then enough heat sinks. so endo becomes a no-go unless you have no heat.

yes, you can get clans. but you basically stick to the tactics outlined in the books. force them to fight on your terrain, ideally at point blank. pressure them into heat issues. gang-shoot em. ignore all honour rules. attack from behind.
and thats basically what works well in FW, too. on a playground with zero cover, the outcome would be a LOT clearer at showing who owns whom. especially without TSM, infantry, tanks.

oh, and be glad they didnt introduce the advanced ammunitions. the howl on IS side about thunder/fascam and swarm or TAG guided ArrowIV/ArrowV would be deafening... Lets just say "Naga" and "Longbow" here....

they are maintaining a sufficiently well simulated equilibrium. but it isnt. IS should be off the map with same conditions in no time. and they all know it. i wish the clans only had SLDF/golden century gear to start with. would have been bad enough with the LAMs still available. "18 hexes jumped +5, behind cover, thick woods - pulse lasers..." there used to be a name for that in CBT: modificator warriors.