9 replies to this topic

[Scyther]

So... balance is a bit off with IS/Clan de-quirkening. Or more off, I should say. And balance issues aren't going away, and PGI is looking at re-balancing in various ways.

However, PGI doesn't have such a good record with 'sweeping balance changes' and 'across the board weapons re-balancing'. Also, while these may be good for overall game balance, or even IS/Clan balance, they don't help individual mech balance. I honestly hope for better results in the future than the past because I think PGI is improving in these areas... but I'm not betting money on it just yet.

Individual mech balance means things like the Cataphract, once considered a competitive, even OP mech design, being left behind and forgotten because gorilla arms/low mounts don't cut it after better designs are released. I'm talking Mist Lynx and Commandos rarely being played because other mechs in the same weight class are just flat-out better. We need to be able to 'spruce up' individual mech designs, or else just accept that PGI spent dev-$$ and dev-hours adding mechs to the game that are now near-useless and will never earn another dollar.

I have considered 3 approaches to adding 'balancing' bonuses to less-advantaged designs.

1.) Re-Quirk with Tree Perks: PGI (and some players) didn't like the way specific quirks led to specific builds, and only that build was viable (eg. a +20% ER-PPC Velocity/-20% ER-PPC heat combo leading to an ER-PPC-only viable build). Using the same 'general' quirks as the Skill tree (Heat Containment, Range, Cooldown, Cool Run, -Heat Generation, Missile Spread etc) would allow PGI to beef up a mechs advantages without locking it into a specific build. They would also not need a separate display technique or game mechanic since they would simply add to things already there.

2.) Re-Quirk with 'Free' Perks: This approach would 'pre-buy' certain Skill Tree nodes for a mech, which would not count towards its' 91-node total. For instance, a mech could have the +1 Consumable Slot (top node) pre-purchased, or the top 5 'Range' nodes in the Firepower tree. This would add a bonus to a mech using current mechanics, while leaving the player more nodes with which to individually customize their mech.

3.) Bonus Tree Perks: This would grant a mech 'bonus' Skill Tree nodes, similar to the way some mechs used to have more module slots. A mech could have a 1-9 node 'bonus' to their node total, meaning 92-100 maximum nodes for that mech. This would give the player the maximum 'customize' potential, since they could put those nodes anywhere. It would also tend to be the most disruptive and least 'flavor' option, since there would be no control over where they were spent. Although I guess they could limit it to 'Mech has 3 additional Sensor nodes and 2 additional Mobility', something like that.

So, what do you think? Is one of these options the 'best' way to re-balance individual mech designs? Is there a better way? Is mech balance something that should be avoided altogether?

[Bud Crue]

I think the "better way" would have been to leave the existing quirks in place, add the skill tree, observe it for a month, and then balance from there.

[Reptilizer]

MadBadger, on 19 May 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

How To Re- Quirk The De- Quirks With Free Quirks And Tree Perks

Are you ... Dr. Seuss ???

[Scyther]

Sadly I am not that man
I just try to do what I can
To even up IS and Clan
And play without LRM spam.

Edited by MadBadger, 19 May 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[warner2]

IMO the only thing keeping some semblance of IS v Clan balance WAS the quirks which just seemed wrong. There was a reason people used the Battlemaster 2C and it was the quirks. There were an awful lot of 'mechs with 10% energy range...?

PGI should do what they are doing IMO which is to remove quirks entirely and attempt to re-balance weapons again. For example rather than give so many 'mechs a 10% energy range quirk just extend the ranges of the IS lasers...

Then with the weapons balanced against each other I would be very much in favour of them giving extra skill points to the worst chassis (allowing the player to boost it as they see fit). Re-Quirk with 'Free' Perks - simple, elegant and valuable given the hard choices you are forced into in the skill tree.

[GotShotALot]

Personally I would like best the 'Bonus' tree skills, as this would allow full choice in what to pick. But I think this would be abused a bit and also maybe lead to everyone picking the same sorts of builds. For game health I would probably go with either Tree quirks (smaller general-purpose quirks like Range and Cooldown) or 'Free' quirks like having some bonus Sensor or Structure or Agility nodes unlocked. That would allow PGI to set the general 'flavor' of a specific variants bonus (like a better scout, or a more agile Heavy).

[JadePanther]

trenchbuckets once thought dead since the end of past lurmageddons are useful again cause they kept some decent missile quirks.. one has a particularly nice quirks that when coupled with the new skill tree makes it an unhappy day for enemys..

[Pixel Hunter]

Bud Crue, on 19 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think the "better way" would have been to leave the existing quirks in place, add the skill tree, observe it for a month, and then balance from there.

but we're talking about PGI here....lol

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have been asking for quirks to be folded into the skill tree for a long time. Mechs with many quirks should be getting free node unlocks.

[Scyther]

@Prosperity Park:
Sound like your choice there is for either 'Free' tree perks (pre-purchased nodes for that mech, assigned by PGI, not counting towards the 91 node total that the player gets to assign) or possibly the 'Bonus nodes' (more than 91 nodes for the player to assign).

We should probably nail down some terminology to avoid confusion.

-'Tree' perks are just base values assigned to the mech (quirks) that add to values the players picks with Tree nodes. Such as giving a mech +3% Range, or +2% Cool Run, or +10% Hill Climb. These would be 'base' values that the player would add to without affecting the Tree selection. Eg, a mech with +3% Range quirk could still go ahead and pick all the Range nodes in the skill tree, which would give it more potential range than any un-quirked mechs.

-'Free' perks (or free skill nodes), would be actual pre-allocated skill nodes in the skill tree. These nodes would be always on, can't be deactivated to free up more skill points, and would effectively use up part of the skill tree. This means a mech with 3 free '+1% Range nodes' would still have 91 nodes to assign, but he could not achieve 'more range' than non-perked mechs because he has the same nodes to work with.

-'Bonus' perks would be additional skill node unlocks granted to a mech. So a mech could be given +3 extra skill nodes to work with, for a total of 94 nodes for that variant. The number of 'bonus' nodes would be set by PGI (some would get 1, some might get 5 or whatever), but the player can then assign those skills anywhere they choose.