106 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Based on the new Radar Derp description, it got buffed over Target Decay.

[Victor Morson]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Moaning about long range missiles being too strong when you do not have an anti-missile system is the same as complaining about the president when you didn't vote. It means you have no right to participate in this discussion.

I'd go a step further and say not just having an AMS, but an AMS with the AMS related skills. Someone running those ruins my LRMs day.

[DAYLEET]

Mister Blastman, on 20 May 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

radar derp, it's a choice.

some choice are a no brainer. I thought i wouldnt have to spectate someone without seismic anymore and now im apparently spectating people who willingly lack both seismic and depriv... Some choices are better than others.

[Victor Morson]

DAYLEET, on 21 May 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

some choice are a no brainer. I thought i wouldnt have to spectate someone without seismic anymore and now im apparently spectating people who willingly lack both seismic and depriv... Some choices are better than others.

There's a bunch of builds that benefit from skipping this stuff, but you're right most of the time on that. There's actual choices that have to be made now.

I'd always be down for an expansion to the skill system with more notable effects, but for now, it's been a major win for me. Not having to buy 50 seismic modules is a huge help too.

[Chados]

60% radar dep and use of terrain masking can put a period on LRM carriers nearly as fast as the old module could. The difference is measured in tenths of a second to break the lock. The only difference is that if a spotter has you sighted, the spread and crib nodes will strip you fast-LRMs aren't the derp potato weapon they were billed as pre-skill tree. They weren't even then if they were used properly and not boated but now a LRM skirmisher with real viable secondaries is a dangerous one on one adversary. Especially a Clan missile carrier that can do damage inside 180m. And mechs carrying that lone ALRM 15 rack for shooting over things is a factor that can hurt you. New day calls for new tactics. I'm actually rediscovering old and disused direct fire cannon skills, honestly. Clan dakka got a big buff with the skill tree.

[Angel of Annihilation]

What the OP isn't taking into account is that prior to the skill tree, you didn't have to gimp your mech in order to mount a Radar Dep module. Now you do which is why most people aren't mounting Radar Dep and LRMs are becoming a problem again.

[Trev Firestorm]

Viktor Drake, on 21 May 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

What the OP isn't taking into account is that prior to the skill tree, you didn't have to gimp your mech in order to mount a Radar Dep module. Now you do which is why most people aren't mounting Radar Dep and LRMs are becoming a problem again.

Being used again is not the same as becoming a problem. They are absolutely not a problem, if you chose not to take the counters, don't complain when the rain comes, it was your choice.

Edit: And that means the tree is working as intended, forcing you to chose between something you want (whatever you think you are gimping yourself by not taking) and skills like dep.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 21 May 2017 - 12:47 PM.

[Exilyth]

Talking about AMS, anyone got a list of mech variants with 2+ ams slots?

[Zergling]

Been running full Radar Deprivation, had zero problems with LRMs.

[Steve the LRM Kingcrab]

OH you dont want to gimp your loadout/skilltree? A highly skilled lrm scrub will make you quit the game.

Yeah that sounds like a nice mechanic.

[Lykaon]

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The only thing I truly hate about LRMs is that they are another nail in the coffin of brawling. As soon as the missile message pops up you have to disengage because a dude out of LoS pushes R and his mouse button. That's bad game design and to blame is the easy accessible lock mechanic

This is a team oriented game and a good team will cover their brawlers as they close to range.

I consider one of the top functions of an LRM carrier to be counter battery fire. If you are piloting an LRM support platform you better know what support means and how to do it!

Here is an example of what support actually means...

There are a couple of brawler oriented heavy and assault mechs on your team. They should probably consider moving together to optimize their firepower and make it easier to support their advances.

As an LRM carrier your possition should be behind these mechs and not like 500m behind but 100m or so while retaining LOS on them yourself.

As the brawlers advance the LRM carrier advances. If something comes into LOS of the brawlers they SHOULD LOCK IT regardless of if they can reach it because that target can be reached by LRM support and can SPOT for it's team's LRMs.

By keeping suppression fire up potential spotters are forced to withdraw and LOS locks for their own LRMs are broken. Once your team's brawlers engage the LRM carrier either lends support damage to brawlers by firing on the same target (killing it faster and sparing more of your brawlers armor) or continuing to apply suppression fire on additional enemy mechs approaching and keeping the brawlers covered as they finish off enemy mechs in unfair fights (fair fights are for suckers don't look for fair look for easy wins)

This role is also why I strongly recommend medium mechs for LRM support roles. Kintaros and Hunchbacks are excellent choices because they can easily keep pace with most brawlers (even clan heavies) by using the medium chassis you are not depriving your team of an assault mech for the front line fight (your team doesn't expect a medium mech to lead a push like an assault mech is expected to do) And the enemy tends to not make a medium LRM carrier a priority target granting you more freedom to possition as needed.

When you have intelligent LRM support brawling becomes a much more reliable option. I consider encouraging inter-dependency and team work to be GOOD game design.

[dillsOn]

Exilyth, on 21 May 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

Talking about AMS, anyone got a list of mech variants with 2+ ams slots?

KFX is the only variant I know of. One with 2 AMS slots is Nova and possibly more. To put my 2 bits in for all this, I disagree, the new system benefits both LRM players and people who wish to counter LRMS. It doesn't "Gimp your mech" to take radar dep because you get other skills along with it. No more "Do I take these two modules or these other two" ... Now you can get the benefits of maybe 5 or six modules or more with the 91 pts. Learn how to build a mech to match the style of play or your expected opposition. If I think I'm going to be outranged by LRMs in a heavy, slow brawler, I'm going to add an AMS to it (2 tons is not a lot of weight for a big mech) ... I'm going to use radar dep. I'm going to stay near ECM mechs in the match, watch cover and make sure I don't make my self an easy target by being out in the open. Currently of the 5 or six mech's i've 'mastered' my KFX is in the group. I've buffed up it's range a little, added AMS overload and I forget what others... The KFX has 3 AMS and I always have 2 or more tons of ammo because this is the purpose of the mech, to me, anti missile/scout/stealth. 3AMS and 2 LLasers. I know it's a risk taking this mech into battle, because, some times -- the enemy knows that LRM dont mean a win. Many a matches I've been in are laser vomit/SRM splat. AMS does nothing agains laser puke and very little against SRM splat. However, the matches where I am constantly blasting LRM20 volley by volley into oblivion, are extremely satisfying and rewarding. Most notably in Skirmish matches where the destroyed missiles translate directly to less damage which greatly helps a team in a mode solely based on damaging the other team.

I dont like the phrase too much, but learn to play, if you think you should be able to charge across an open space to beat any mech, you're sorely mistaken and will die almost every time. Use your team, use cover, use countermeasures.

[Exilyth]

dillsOn, on 21 May 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

KFX is the only variant I know of. One with 2 AMS slots is Nova and possibly more.

I know that there are the Spider SDR-A, Atlas AS7-K with 2 ams (and a bunch more) but I was hoping that someone had a list.

[Johnny Z]

Exilyth, on 21 May 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

I know that there are the Spider SDR-A, Atlas AS7-K with 2 ams (and a bunch more) but I was hoping that someone had a list.

One STK has 2 AMS.

There is more AMS about these days. Great topic.

[Aramuside]

All I got from the rant in the OP's post was ... If you spend a chunk of your valuable skill points .... strangely that bit was missing. I wonder why?

[The Lobsters]

Exilyth, on 21 May 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

Talking about AMS, anyone got a list of mech variants with 2+ ams slots?

There are 28 chassis's that can run more than one ams.


LCT-3M
SDR-A
JVN-10N
JVN-10F
FS9-S
WLF-1B

PHX-3S
PHX-KK
PHX-R
VND-1AA
CRB-27
BSW-S2

CPLT-J
TDR-9S
GHR-5J
BL-6-KNT

BLR-2C
STK-5S
CP-11-A-DC
AS7-K

MLX
KFX (triple)

VPR-M
IFR
HMN-PA
NVA
NVA-S (Triple)
SCR-LC

SMN


Also, to the snowflakes, it costs 9 nodes to get 60% radar derp. That isn't gonna gimp your build unless you're being greedy. If you are really honest with yourself you can probably shave a bit of that cooldown/range/heat gen or agility to find those 9 nodes. Do you really need speed tweak? The best part of the agility tree is the acc/dec/turn.

Or find some other strategy for avoiding Lrm's.



.

Edited by The Lobsters, 22 May 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[Luminis]

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but even without Radar Derp and AMS, I'm not all that scared of Lurms Whenever it felt like there was an excessive amount of LRM boats on the opposing team, they got pushed and dealt with in pretty handily...

[Tarl Cabot]

• When ever there is an event, the LRMS users come out in droves.
  
• Now though, many have also skipped some or all the Radar Dep nodes
  
• And many have not equipped AMS, even after PGI allowed players to get points for shooting down incoming to friendly mechs
  
• The new Skill Tree /Sensors also allowed players access to modules they may not have previously equipped due to lack of module space but now they have different levels of Target Retention & Target Decay.
  
  • And the above is not just the LRM boats themselves but others who may also be spotting for them, retaining their own locks longer.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 May 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[Eboli]

Thank you for compiling this list.

There are a lot more chassis taking 2+ ams than I thought.

Cheers!

The Lobsters, on 21 May 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

There are 26 chassis's that can run more than one ams...
.

Edited by Eboli, 21 May 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Sierra3]

I actually field dedicated AMS mechs, as I also field Archers w/ LRMs (and know how quickly armor can be stripped from a mech w/ LRMs).

The first is a LCT-3M Locust w/ 2 AMS systems, 2 tons of ammo, and 4 SPLs. Need more ammo, swap weapons out for something different. I use an XL 170 engine in it.

The second mech is the CRB-27 Crab w/ 2 AMS systems, 3 tons of ammo, 3 MPLs and 2 SPLs. I use a standard 240 engine in it.

Third is a recent addition, as I do not play Clan, w/ this one exception...the modified KFX-C Kit Fox. It has 3 AMS systems, TAG, Beagle Probe, ECM, 3 tons AMS ammo, 4 Machineguns w/ 3 tons of ammo, and 2 SPLs.

The Javelin has a couple variants w/ dual AMS points, but I have not tried them out yet (though I own them).

Before the new skill tree, both my LCT-3M and CRB-27 actually carried more AMS ammo (3 tons and 4 tons respectively), and I would actually burn through all of that ammo in a single match. During that time, the most I have used up, was over 21k rounds of AMS ammo in just 6 matches... on the same day. Normally would only run dry on AMS ammo , 1-2 times a day. I have only ran out of AMS ammo twice since the new skill tree, while carrying fewer rounds.

Edited by Sierra3, 21 May 2017 - 07:35 PM.