106 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Radar deprivation and AMS still work. No change there. Please remember to cite this fact in your "LRMs have taken over the game" threads.

I mean the first sentence you say should include the terms radar deprivation and AMS, and how everyone has access to them. Also mention the AMS overload skill that greatly improves the performance of AMS.

You could start your post with something like this: "I know that everybody can mount radar deprivation, AMS, and AMS overload, and I know that a team of AMS carriers will shut down all of the long-range missile boats, but..."

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 May 2017 - 08:21 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

AMS or radar derp, it's a choice.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 20 May 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Oh I forgot to mention to AMS overload skill. I will edit my post.

[sycocys]

First sentence should explain where all the buildings and rocks have gone that eliminate the need for derp or ams in most of the maps anyhow.

[El Bandito]

My BLR-2C has 2xAMS, +2.5 AMS damage, and 60% Raderp. 1000 rounds of AMS ammo gone in 15 seconds. Didn't get to see just how many missiles I managed to swat down.

*edit* They can completely shut down CLRM20 volley. Which means they are totally worth it.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 May 2017 - 07:51 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

El Bandito, on 20 May 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

My BLR-2C has 2xAMS, +2.5 AMS damage, and 60% Raderp. 1000 rounds of AMS ammo gone in 15 seconds. Didn't get to see just how many missiles I managed to swat down.

I have a cutefox with triple AMS overload, ECM, neraly full sensor tree, and depending on weapons 2.5 - 3.5 tons AMS ammo. LRMs tend to not affect me or my teammates when I run that build. It's strange.

[JadePanther]

hmm by work you mean equip with a few tons of ammo and spend skill points right?

[MauttyKoray]

sycocys, on 20 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

First sentence should explain where all the buildings and rocks have gone that eliminate the need for derp or ams in most of the maps anyhow.

The maps haven't changed either... They're still the same pre-skill tree and not every map is gonna be made to hard counter LRMs. Not to mention there should never be a map that entirely shuts down LRMs, that's just a bad map.

That being said...I digress cause I still want to see a massive urban map at some point *ahem*PGI*ahem*. By all means, varying building sizes, maybe a park in it, etc. But I want a massive mega city sprawl map with a bunch of sky scrapers and various city features, a big space port as well.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 May 2017 - 09:51 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

JadePanther, on 20 May 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

hmm by work you mean equip with a few tons of ammo and spend skill points right?

Yup. It takes far fewer nodes/tons to shut down LRMs than it takes to use them. This has not changed, since the new tree swaps moduels for nodes, and the nodes needed for Radar Derp and AMS overload don't stop you from also mounting Seismic Sensors, target info gathering, advanced sensor range, and weapon buffs.

AMS users are still stronger than LRM users. It's the numbers of people who choose to deploy these systems that determine if LRMs are viable or not in the PUG Queue.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 May 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[r4plez]

Great topic for all LRM whiners. Skiping AMS and R.Deprivation nodes have its drawback - remmember kids

Edited by r4plez, 20 May 2017 - 10:01 AM.

[JadePanther]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

Yup. It takes far fewer nodes/tons to shut down LRMs than it takes to use them. This has not changed, since the new tree swaps moduels for nodes, and the nodes needed for Radar Derp and AMS overload don't stop you from also mounting Seismic Sensors, target info gathering, advanced sensor range, and weapon buffs.

AMS users are still stronger than LRM users. It's the numbers of people who choose to deploy these systems that determine if LRMs are viable or not in the PUG Queue.

alot of builds just dont have slots/tons for ams without sucking total donkey balls.. and then some are just gimping themselves offensively by dropping skills into derp..

personnaly b4 i didnt really use derp or ams and had no issues.. now its much suckier..

[Felicitatem Parco]

JadePanther, on 20 May 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

alot of builds just dont have slots/tons for ams without sucking total donkey balls.. and then some are just gimping themselves offensively by dropping skills into derp..

personnaly b4 i didnt really use derp or ams and had no issues.. now its much suckier..

The only big change you are seeing is the frequency of LRM usage since there are missile skills and you can stack target decay with other nodes. This LRM users are using up their nodes on LRM proficiency and New = Shiny = Must Have

So, while LRMs are in a resurgence due to an interest spike, you can spike them with AMS and knock the wind out of their sails... Or ou can make no change, yourself. Your call.

[MischiefSC]

Just bring AMS. Derp is a spendy waste on the skill tree. AMS isnt. You don't really even need overload - just more people with AMS.

[Trev Firestorm]

JadePanther, on 20 May 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

alot of builds just dont have slots/tons for ams without sucking total donkey balls.. and then some are just gimping themselves offensively by dropping skills into derp..

personnaly b4 i didnt really use derp or ams and had no issues.. now its much suckier..

And those builds pay the consequences of being stingy.

[Brain Cancer]

Buttttttt AMS takes MUH TONNAGE!

Seriously, if there was an anti-(insert current meta weapon loadout) skill on the tree, people would be taking it in droves.

But since the only such hard counters exist for LRMs, whining is had. Always. Same song, new day.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Brain Cancer, on 20 May 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

Buttttttt AMS takes MUH TONNAGE!

Seriously, if there was an anti-(insert current meta weapon loadout) skill on the tree, people would be taking it in droves.

But since the only such hard counters exist for LRMs, whining is had. Always. Same song, new day.

Oh man, Imagine if there was a Magnetic Field equipemenr that weighed 1-2 tons that caused Gauss Slugs to be deflected away from your mech. How would people handle that?! Hahahaha.

GAUSS IS USELESS! YOU RUINED MY GAME!

But we have an anti-LRM mechanic already that some folks say isn't worth taking, while they complain about LRMs.

Sorry, I have to say this:

Moaning about long range missiles being too strong when you do not have an anti-missile system is the same as complaining about the president when you didn't vote. It means you have no right to participate in this discussion.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 May 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

My Lurmhawk ( WHK-B ) have received a clear buff from the skill tree.

Previously I could have either 4xLRM15, nice amount of ammo and 4xmedium pulse, OR change LRMs into 4x10 and equip more ammo. With LRM15's I often run out of ammo eventually, which didn't hurt that much since I had the lasers left.

But now with heat gen and more ammo nodes, I run it with 4xLRM15s, rarely running out of ammo and having plently of direct fire ability as well whenever anyone wants to get close enough. It was already rather good and now it's better.

I think with the incoming laser AMS good LRM boats will be taken a little back. And to be honest, it feels it needs to happen.


Best defense againts LRMs it ER-L. You can shoot over your optimal range, they can't.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 20 May 2017 - 11:20 AM.

[JadePanther]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Oh man, Imagine if there was a Magnetic Field equipemenr that weighed 1-2 tons that caused Gauss Slugs to be deflected away from your mech. How would people handle that?! Hahahaha.

GAUSS IS USELESS! YOU RUINED MY GAME!

But we have an anti-LRM mechanic already that some folks say isn't worth taking, while they complain about LRMs.

Sorry, I have to say this:

Moaning about long range missiles being too strong when you do not have an anti-missile system is the same as complaining about the president when you didn't vote. It means you have no right to participate in this discussion.

gauss has already been slapped around by nerfs like crazy

they just made a change to gauss charge time and a skill added to extend that time.. so now not only does it take time to charge a gauss up but you have less time to actually use that shot without taking skills in it.. that is a pretty crappy move seeing as adding gauss charge up was already a nerf to it.. TBH a non charged gauss is like taking an unloaded pistol into a duel and having your friend hold the ammo.. maybe if we move reload time of AC's to reload when the trigger is pulled there will be more understanding. Ask any military in the world if they drive armored vehicles into battle with an empty gun breech..

dont bring gauss into it.. they've been shat on enough.

[Weeny Machine]

The only thing I truly hate about LRMs is that they are another nail in the coffin of brawling. As soon as the missile message pops up you have to disengage because a dude out of LoS pushes R and his mouse button. That's bad game design and to blame is the easy accessible lock mechanic

[Victor Morson]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Radar deprivation and AMS still work. No change there. Please remember to cite this fact in your "LRMs have taken over the game" threads.

I mean the first sentence you say should include the terms radar deprivation and AMS, and how everyone has access to them. Also mention the AMS overload skill that greatly improves the performance of AMS.

You could start your post with something like this: "I know that everybody can mount radar deprivation, AMS, and AMS overload, and I know that a team of AMS carriers will shut down all of the long-range missile boats, but..."

So, so this. The fact people skip this stuff on the skills then complain it's ineffective is driving me straight up a wall.

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

The only thing I truly hate about LRMs is that they are another nail in the coffin of brawling. As soon as the missile message pops up you have to disengage because a dude out of LoS pushes R and his mouse button. That's bad game design and to blame is the easy accessible lock mechanic

I've been through this HUNDREDS of times on the forum but that is not how they work. Out of LOS missiles are harassing annoyances if you're not narc'ed, and taking even a couple skills to counter them can put a huge dent in them.

To PROPERLY use LRMs you need to pair them with TAG and LOS, frankly. To get anything good out of them (including 1000m+ range) you need to spec really heavily into that.

I straight up consider indirect fire to be a luxury option if I have spare ammo, myself. Otherwise you get a bunch of missiles splashing down in a wide scattershot pattern, not a bunch slamming 1-2 sections of the torso. They are not nearly as easy to use as casual players think they are.

PS: Anyone that is a brawler and pushes in on an LRM boat will cream the LRM boat, end of story.

Teer Kerensky, on 20 May 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

But now with heat gen and more ammo nodes, I run it with 4xLRM15s, rarely running out of ammo and having plently of direct fire ability as well whenever anyone wants to get close enough. It was already rather good and now it's better.

I think with the incoming laser AMS good LRM boats will be taken a little back. And to be honest, it feels it needs to happen.

If people actually invested in the AMS and Radar Dep. skills they'd realize that stuff got a buff too.

But people slack on it then complain about it. Why this whole thread got started.