49 replies to this topic

[SilentFenris]

I got a lot of salt from a veteran player today during a Scouting match. After playing several matches on Protect, I finally got a Gather scenario. I let my team know in Lobby while they could still switch mechs that I was going for a cap victory and got a lot of complaints from one player on my team.

I recorded the patch, but frankly, nobody wants to watch 10 minutes of me collecting Intel in a Pirate's Bane. My three teammates were destroyed and only took one enemy with them. During the ENTIRE match he kept harassing me. I finally finished collecting, got to the dropship and won. I also told my teammate to ___ ____ which I'm not proud of but it made me feel better.

So, the poll part is; do you stealth cap? I don't do it often...I wanted it to:
1) get a Scouting Victory
2) help the IS Scouting bar which the Clans are dominating this morning....
3) revenge.... I've lost 3 matches this morning to Arctic Cheetahs that play the same way (which is probably why the bar is pegged for Clan Scouting victories).

Edited by SilentFenris, 14 May 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Well look at it this way.

If you are actually a decent player/team then in a brawl you should win, even on gathering.

So after you win, you have 1:30 to go around and get a bunch of points. You can generally get 5-10 points with 2 mechs (assuming 2 die in the brawl).

1. You get paid more
2. You still get intel


What is there to lose? Just running the caps is stupid. You don't earn anything and just waste time.

[Ade the Rare]

You do earn extra c-bills per intel cap.

I personally prefer the brawl, mostly because you gain a whole load more faction rep due to the plethora of different ways dealing damage is scored compared to everything else. Seriously it's like 25pts for a cap victory and 150+ for brawl victory, which is just insane.

However, when it's gather, and you feel like an easy win, why the hell not?

[Appogee]

AdetheRare, on 14 May 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

You do earn extra c-bills per intel cap.

It's a tiny amount.

If CBills are your motivation, you should be getting the match over with quickly and starting another. You'd earn a lot more that way than by capping beacons.

@OP: either the whole team has to agree to cap and evade, or the whole team has to fight. If you cap and evade while the 3 others are fighting - or they get hunted down and engaged - then you are condemning them to a 4v3 battle.

I don't mind winning by objective. As long as the rest of the team shares that plan.

Edited by Appogee, 14 May 2017 - 09:00 AM.

[TheLuc]

due to game structure of rewards, all modes are skirmish with some sauce over it, so deal max damage possible and get the cash, which has nothing to do with actual scouting.

why so much salt ? Just check the history of MWO since Beta, it will answer all your questions

[SilentFenris]

justcallme A S H, on 14 May 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

What is there to lose? Just running the caps is stupid. You don't earn anything and just waste time.

I have to disagree with you ASH. There is the match to loose. The choice I made this game and the point of the poll above is either:
1) attempt a Victory by Stealth cap which grants the IS some Intel points and shift the Scouting bar towards IS but earn less C-bills.
2) go with Brawling which is riskier but grants more C-bills and Faction points.
My decision was to go for the Stealth Cap Victory. Blame PGI for making the game more rewarding to Brawl than actually complete the Mission objectives.

justcallme A S H, on 14 May 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

If you are actually a decent player/team then in a brawl you should win, even on gathering.

The Clan players I have seen today are not even trying to Brawl. If your I.S. team is setup to brawl it means Griffins, Shadowhawks, Centurions or other 50-55 ton mechs that can't catch an ACH or mist lynx. You will loose. Show me a match where you and your team manage to stop 3-4 Arctic Cheetahs from rushing into the dropship at the last moment and I will admit that you are right and I am wrong.

[meteorol]

Running for caps is basically waisting everyones time. No one gives a jack about intel during an event that requires matchscore to complete. Running for intel doesn't give matchscore, so it's basically wasting the time of everyone trying to complete the event.

That aside, it's just terribly, terribly boring. If i wanted to do nothing but running around while getting shot, i would go to academy and play this ****** gauntlet thing.

[Alvar Von Kenesthor]

If you play IS, you will have a tonnage advantage that gives you the upper hand in most brawls, add to that a higher DPS due to shorter laser duration and ballistics/missiles cooldown, cooler heat control and defensive quirks, and the IS results in a Brawling monster but that advantage is fastly shortened when you can't read what your team will do.
You have between 1 and 5 minutes to see your team mechs and read their intentions. If you see your team is full of griffins, bushwackers and shadowhawks, choosing a locust will be like having one less member in the squad. I've seen Locust players helping in the brawls by backstabing enemies and gathering intel left behind by the main group, but for each one of those team players, there are nine who split from the group and prefer to collect intel by themselves, which usually results in the IS team loosing the brawl and up to ten minutes of seeing the locust run away from the clanners until they corner it and kill it with a single alpha.

That seems like it might help the IS more in the scouting bar, but the 1-2 points of difference between a coward "all-means victory" and a brawl victory doesnt make a difference. When running as a lonewolf collecting intel, you're faced with a fifty-fifty chance of victory or defeat, depending on wether the event bandwagoners clanners find you or not, despite you'd win most of brawl fights (or at least if you know how to stay in formation, call who to focus and which component to aim to, but that's just "how to play 101")

In this event alone, I've played more or less 17 scout missions, of which I've lost 3, and guess what did all 3 have in common.
If you think it was a Locust or a Cicada scouting, you're right

[justcallme A S H]

SilentFenris, on 14 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

The Clan players I have seen today are not even trying to Brawl. If your I.S. team is setup to brawl it means Griffins, Shadowhawks, Centurions or other 50-55 ton mechs that can't catch an ACH or mist lynx. You will loose. Show me a match where you and your team manage to stop 3-4 Arctic Cheetahs from rushing into the dropship at the last moment and I will admit that you are right and I am wrong.

Ah, every match we played on Sat? Given we didn't lose a match against plenty of "objective" players who try the same rubbish as you do. Most of them were trying to rush wins for a silly leaderboard.

All it takes is minor coordination and you can do the below quite easily against such people.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 May 2017 - 10:21 AM.

[Flashshark]

For me the it's most important to gather intel to improve chances to win siege.
So stealth cap is 100% ok.

[Javin]

I feel if you are in a unit big enough for Siege you should fight Siege. Scouting is more for small units or when you only have a few members. I understand no one made the rules but PGI. Siege should be worth 2-3 points for the victory and scouting only one. That way points could be earned both ways.

[MARCVS CENTVRION GALLVS]

cap only payout when avoiding damage is total sh:t, sorry to say, but it aint worth doing.
so i just take that locust there, rob the points, go home unpaid - 2-3 times and i say f... this. back to quick play queue.

general FW queue is just trash. and now this stupid as hell MMO-enhancement. "skill tree" - since when does skill grow on trees ? its in front of the machine, if any at all.

[LordNothing]

while i would have voted win by any means as a matter of principal, i simply do not see stealth cap as viable. so i voted brawl. even when you got a guy in a locust you want the other 3 mechs out playing interference so as to let the fast guy cap, and the best way to do that is to brawl.

most losses seem to occur when the attacking team caps, and it doesnt help that they get points for it either. this does several things, gives the other side time to set up a stealth cap, makes you loose track of the enemy team and it wastes time. i kind of think defensive capping needs to go. maybe instead of capping make them so they can be destroyed by shooting at them and show them on the radar. this makes it easier to set up an ambush and track their movements.

[SilentFenris]

SilentFenris, on 14 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

The Clan players I have seen today are not even trying to Brawl. If your I.S. team is setup to brawl it means Griffins, Shadowhawks, Centurions or other 50-55 ton mechs that can't catch an ACH or mist lynx. You will loose. Show me a match where you and your team manage to stop 3-4 Arctic Cheetahs from rushing into the dropship at the last moment and I will admit that you are right and I am wrong.

justcallme A S H, on 14 May 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Ah, every match we played on Sat? Given we didn't lose a match against plenty of "objective" players who try the same rubbish as you do. Most of them were trying to rush wins for a silly leaderboard.

All it takes is minor coordination and you can do the below quite easily against such people.

Call it rubbish if you like, if you want a 4v4 Skirmish mode go ahead and play your way while I cap.

Also, the scoreboard you posted shows a 3:37 timer and lots of damage on both sides. Hardly the stealth cap scenario I am talking about. You either managed to corner or bait them into a fight so I give you some credit, but it is not the proof I challenged you for.

Poll is 14-5-21-12. Community seems to have two very polarized groups split opinion over this method of Scouting game play and a significant number that do not care.

Side note; Just noticed this thread being kicked around which started a few days before...same dead horse, different posters. https://mwomercs.com...t-fight-at-all/
They didn't run a poll, but I have to had it to one poster, Gunner Grimrod, put up what I consider a very solid post for the Gather/Cap without fighting side:
https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5734268

Edited by SilentFenris, 15 May 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[50 50]

Appogee, on 14 May 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

It's a tiny amount.

If CBills are your motivation, you should be getting the match over with quickly and starting another. You'd earn a lot more that way than by capping beacons.

@OP: either the whole team has to agree to cap and evade, or the whole team has to fight. If you cap and evade while the 3 others are fighting - or they get hunted down and engaged - then you are condemning them to a 4v3 battle.

I don't mind winning by objective. As long as the rest of the team shares that plan.

If c-bills are your motivation I wouldn't suggest scouting.

It would have been better if the whole team went with the same approach but as it is, it appears this created a split therefore meaning less firepower in the brawl which the rest actively went to find.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the decision given the position of the intel tug of war but it sounds like it would have gone better had the whole team taken the same approach.

A cat and mouse intel gathering match has a very different feel to a straight up 4v4 brawl, which is the objective for the defending team one way or another, and I quite enjoy being able to play the objective for a change of pace. It's also playing the 'long game' and looking at how your win will affect the invasion side of play. Unfortunately with scouting it is a bit disconnected from the invasion mode and many would simply not care about the outcome, particularly in an event with lots of candy on offer.

[justcallme A S H]

Flashshark, on 14 May 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

For me the it's most important to gather intel to improve chances to win siege.
So stealth cap is 100% ok.

The bonuses that are applied to Siege mode - I kid you not - make little to no difference to the games outcome.

[justcallme A S H]

SilentFenris, on 14 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

Show me a match where you and your team manage to stop 3-4 Arctic Cheetahs from rushing into the dropship at the last moment and I will admit that you are right and I am wrong.

SilentFenris, on 14 May 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Also, the scoreboard you posted shows a 3:37 timer and lots of damage on both sides. Hardly the stealth cap scenario I am talking about. You either managed to corner or bait them into a fight so I give you some credit, but it is not the proof I challenged you for.

So I give you proof of a 4-man ACH dive-bomber/intel gather team, and then, it's not proof... All because you were instantly proven wrong and make up some counter story to a game you weren't even in?

LOL.

Ok dude.

2 of the ACH's have basically no dmg... If you are not smart enough to work out it was a dive-bomb, there is no point in you starting this thread asking why.

[Commander A9]

Stealth cap? What do you mean?

You mean run around, grab points, and get out without firing a shot?

Which is exactly what a good recon scout is supposed to do? Finish the mission without the enemy even knowing he was there?

Hello? Do none of you guys know how Scout Snipers, U.S. Marine Force Recon, or Pathfinders work?

Edited by Commander A9, 14 May 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[Jerry Beard]

I stealth cap period, but if others wanna brawl fine, you catch me I will brawl. I look for the win period. There is no "correct" way to play it. All we have are different opinions and nothing more. PGI never came out and said this is what you must do, instead they set it up so that players make their own choices plain and simple. Now which side of the coin you are on is simply a matter of choice. I play the objective period others don't more power to you. Just like every other mode in the game there are different points of view on how they should be played and if we sit and trash folks because they chose different than we did than that is just plain ignorant in my opinion. I applaud those who do their own thing no matter what which is what keeps this game interesting!

[Crockdaddy]

SilentFenris, on 14 May 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

I got a lot of salt from a veteran player today during a Scouting match. After playing several matches on Protect, I finally got a Gather scenario. I let my team know in Lobby while they could still switch mechs that I was going for a cap victory and got a lot of complaints from one player on my team.

I recorded the patch, but frankly, nobody wants to watch 10 minutes of me collecting Intel in a Pirate's Bane. My three teammates were destroyed and only took one enemy with them. During the ENTIRE match he kept harassing me. I finally finished collecting, got to the dropship and won. I also told my teammate to ___ ____ which I'm not proud of but it made me feel better.

So, the poll part is; do you stealth cap? I don't do it often...I wanted it to:
1) get a Scouting Victory
2) help the IS Scouting bar which the Clans are dominating this morning....
3) revenge.... I've lost 3 matches this morning to Arctic Cheetahs that play the same way (which is probably why the bar is pegged for Clan Scouting victories).

I think in that case if your mates wanted to fight you should like be a teammate and stuff and fight. If the scout mode mattered in some way then by all means gather intel and get that stealthy victory. By all accounts every game mode in MWO has to come down to a skirmish to win any actual C-bill payout of consequence. Not making cbills sucks. Of course if your mates fought it out and they died but you win on caps ... well GG then I suppose as they get the victory and the cbills for actual fighting while you just get the victory and some pittance of c-bills.

*shrug* I figure if folks don't like it then 4-man up. That is pretty easy to do and this game mode is for team play or so I heard.