75 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Bush Hopper, on 22 May 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

A gauss/PPC salvo hits one place if you are caught. The surival tree doesn't do much against that kind of damage

Darian has also a point. Imo, the baseline agility values should be upped a little bit for ALL lights to make them better at evading fire. Then the survival tree can go to hell for lights imo

Ran around last night in my lights with Mobility and Survival tree maxxed with the rest of the points in Firepower.

Yeah did not really notice a difference to much in how long I lasted. When you have Assaults boating 4 Gauss, or 2 PPC's and 2 Gauss, or 2 PPC's and 2 AC5's, or 2 PPC's and 2 AC 10's or Mediums with nothing but small or med pulse lasers. One good hit will cripple if not kill a light. Do not even get me started on the damn OP'ness of streak boats against lights right now.

The only Assasults I really had to much of a chance against were the ones boating LRM's. For the life of me I do not know why people in assaults boat LRM's. Everytime I see an Atlas with LRM's a puppy somewhere dies.

[Blackhound]

I mean... If you don't want an extra 10 structure points on your CT and Side Torsos go ahead and skip the survival tree.

[Weeny Machine]

Blackhound, on 22 May 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

I mean... If you don't want an extra 10 structure points on your CT and Side Torsos go ahead and skip the survival tree.

Have you read my first post? Yeah, put more than 27 pts in the survival tree to get your 10 structure. I wonder what you give up for that insane amount of points

[MustrumRidcully]

Darian DelFord, on 22 May 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

Which leaves you little for firepower while the heavier chassis can specialize in one or two trees and still put up decent numbers. Lights can not. People seem to forget the MAIN PATH for C-Bills and XP is DAMAGE.

The Firepower nodes however don't really buff damage directly. And the things it buffs are range or cooldown that you might not need on a light that can (and must) move towards his enemies in the first place, and can't afford to stay around for long fire exchanges.

[Weeny Machine]

MustrumRidcully, on 22 May 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

The Firepower nodes however don't really buff damage directly. And the things it buffs are range or cooldown that you might not need on a light that can (and must) move towards his enemies in the first place, and can't afford to stay around for long fire exchanges.

You need often to take ranged nodes in order to access the others.

Besides, brawling is mostly dead and its a pokefest or drive-by-shooting for lights. Therefore ranged isn't that bad. So all in all you need the firepower tree as a light

[Bigbacon]

Darian DelFord, on 22 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Ran around last night in my lights with Mobility and Survival tree maxxed with the rest of the points in Firepower.

Yeah did not really notice a difference to much in how long I lasted. When you have Assaults boating 4 Gauss, or 2 PPC's and 2 Gauss, or 2 PPC's and 2 AC5's, or 2 PPC's and 2 AC 10's or Mediums with nothing but small or med pulse lasers. One good hit will cripple if not kill a light. Do not even get me started on the damn OP'ness of streak boats against lights right now.

The only Assasults I really had to much of a chance against were the ones boating LRM's. For the life of me I do not know why people in assaults boat LRM's. Everytime I see an Atlas with LRM's a puppy somewhere dies.

i ran around the other day in an atlas with nothing but a single LRM5 and lots of ammo....want to make people mad...that is how you do it or run around in a summoner with a single SL and no armor.

[Battlemaster56]

Bigbacon, on 22 May 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

i ran around the other day in an atlas with nothing but a single LRM5 and lots of ammo....want to make people mad...that is how you do it or run around in a summoner with a single SL and no armor.

Saw a Mauler with 4 lrm 15s and a tag, easiest kill of my life.

[Darian DelFord]

Blackhound, on 22 May 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

I mean... If you don't want an extra 10 structure points on your CT and Side Torsos go ahead and skip the survival tree.

As Hopper covered really not worth it for the amount of sill points you have to invest. If every damn Heavy or assault was not capable of a 40 to 75 points alpha it might be a different story, but alas it is not

MustrumRidcully, on 22 May 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

The Firepower nodes however don't really buff damage directly. And the things it buffs are range or cooldown that you might not need on a light that can (and must) move towards his enemies in the first place, and can't afford to stay around for long fire exchanges.

I take firepower for the 15% duration buff as well as Range and heat mangement. ALL lights are really running hot right now. Many lost their heat dissipation quirks.

Bush Hopper, on 22 May 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

You need often to take ranged nodes in order to access the others.

Besides, brawling is mostly dead and its a pokefest or drive-by-shooting for lights. Therefore ranged isn't that bad. So all in all you need the firepower tree as a light

The reason brawling is dead is the AWESOME decision by Paul a long time ago to allow weapons to do damage PAST their optimal ranges.

Bigbacon, on 22 May 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

i ran around the other day in an atlas with nothing but a single LRM5 and lots of ammo....want to make people mad...that is how you do it or run around in a summoner with a single SL and no armor.

Personally I like the Oxide with 4 LRM 5's. That is a PITA troll build :>

[Weeny Machine]

@Darian:
Yup, the extreme range of energy weapon is a reason, maybe THE reason, why this game is snipefest. Heck, it takes ages to cross the distance to get into the fight as a brawler. When you are there the sniper isn't helpless either and hits pretty hard up close.

[Grus]

The overpower skill in a light for survivability is not getting shot... or don't stay in the brawl long enough to take damage... simple.

[Darian DelFord]

Grus, on 22 May 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

The overpower skill in a light for survivability is not getting shot... or don't stay in the brawl long enough to take damage... simple.

ROFL

Sorry do not know to many light chassis that consistently can arm weapons greater than 400 meters. Also do not know to many pilots who will let you get a 2nd shot off on them without them reacting.

There is much much more to playing a light than what you listed. With 12 mechs on the field, good luck getting anywhere without being seen on these small *** maps.

[Weeny Machine]

Grus, on 22 May 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

The overpower skill in a light for survivability is not getting shot... or don't stay in the brawl long enough to take damage... simple.

I really do not want to be an elitist but let me assure you of this: in a match with T1-3 players, you GET hit. Especially from mostly meta-loadouts and dumb (pulse)-laser vomit. That's not like T4-5

[SQW]

What are you guys on about? Engagment range for over 50% of the maps are within 400-500m. Crimson Strait, THE most popular map, have you literally waiting for people to come out of tunnel at 300m while having overhead shield from LRMs. Same goes for HPG and Mining. If your 50kph SRM boat is finding it hard to close in, it's not the game's fault. Brawling is alive and well.

As for lights being less agile, MWO gave you ACH pilots the false impression that your mech is an assault. It's not an 135kph Atlas. Lights are suppose to be a fragile skirmishers that should only engage during moments of opportunity. Even with decoupling, lights are still dangerous as long as you aren't trying to take on half of the enemy team on your own at SPL range.

[QuantumButler]

Alexander of Macedon, on 21 May 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yep. Mobility is crucial, Operations is (with a few exceptions, like the Spider 5K) crucial, and getting full radar derp is crucial (and might as well grab seismic while you're there). Once you get the stuff you have to have, there's not enough nodes left to get a meaningful value from Survival. Radar derp isn't just for avoiding LRMs, it's also very important for E&Eing after you hit someone or get spotted because it prevents people from tracking what direction you're moving in after they lose LoS.

Only if the player is dumb and didn't immediately tag you with the "Enemy spotted!" wallhack.

[Asym]

Good grief !

Ton per ton, light mech's now are the most potent vehivles in MWO. Im the "real world", a 20-35 ton light would not survive 30 seconds in the frontal 60 degree arc of main battle tanks: period..... Story over.

WHY? Because 20-35 tons vehicles simply can't carry the "mass" necessary to survive modern kenitic energy projecticles. Heck, armies today don't have energy weapons now but if they did, they would only create even more "issues" for these light vehicles.

So why is it MWO has allowed light to be so powerful? I've been in dozens of matches where a single Raven has killed 4 or 5 vehicles; even after getting pounded by direct fire and LRM's??? How is that physically possible? No, they weren't missing either because line-of-sight and line-of-fire is the same...... No lead or super elevation needed.

So, the real question here is why PGI have created invulnerable classes of vehicles and what's to keep MWO from becoming "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" where no one has to think; people won't need teams; and, every class of vehicle between lights and assaults are Non-value added?

How is that fun?

[Battlemaster56]

Asym, on 23 May 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

Good grief !

Ton per ton, light mech's now are the most potent vehivles in MWO. Im the "real world", a 20-35 ton light would not survive 30 seconds in the frontal 60 degree arc of main battle tanks: period..... Story over.

WHY? Because 20-35 tons vehicles simply can't carry the "mass" necessary to survive modern kenitic energy projecticles. Heck, armies today don't have energy weapons now but if they did, they would only create even more "issues" for these light vehicles.

So why is it MWO has allowed light to be so powerful? I've been in dozens of matches where a single Raven has killed 4 or 5 vehicles; even after getting pounded by direct fire and LRM's??? How is that physically possible? No, they weren't missing either because line-of-sight and line-of-fire is the same...... No lead or super elevation needed.

So, the real question here is why PGI have created invulnerable classes of vehicles and what's to keep MWO from becoming "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" where no one has to think; people won't need teams; and, every class of vehicle between lights and assaults are Non-value added?

How is that fun?

You applying real world to a video game with it's roots deep into sci-fi territory, also lights are the weakest class in the game and been hit by many nerfs in the past, also no light can't take punishment PERIOD.

Also if a light going around killing 4 to 5 guys per match then you and your team is a bunch of potatoes allowing it to do so, and heres a tip, use pulse lasers and aim for the hips of the mech then their dead for sure, or the easy way pack on ore 2 streaks and laugh at their entire existence when they try to escape tracking missiles. Or try running lights yourself, and see if you can get 4 or 5 kills a match cuz hell I'm lucky if I'm lucky enough to get one during a flank or hit and run.

[Weeny Machine]

SQW, on 22 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

What are you guys on about? Engagment range for over 50% of the maps are within 400-500m. Crimson Strait, THE most popular map, have you literally waiting for people to come out of tunnel at 300m while having overhead shield from LRMs. Same goes for HPG and Mining. If your 50kph SRM boat is finding it hard to close in, it's not the game's fault. Brawling is alive and well.

As for lights being less agile, MWO gave you ACH pilots the false impression that your mech is an assault. It's not an 135kph Atlas. Lights are suppose to be a fragile skirmishers that should only engage during moments of opportunity. Even with decoupling, lights are still dangerous as long as you aren't trying to take on half of the enemy team on your own at SPL range.

What we are about? You think that small damage adds not up? If you get hit by a pulse laser barrage at 700-900 meters it takes away crucial armour. Take a Jenner IIC - it has 13 points of armour on an arm. Even if that barrage just takes away 3 it is nearly a quarter of your armour...and in that case about 50% is located in your arm.

Too bad that most weapons light can carry are close range weapons.

[Weeny Machine]

Asym, on 23 May 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

Good grief !

Ton per ton, light mech's now are the most potent vehivles in MWO. Im the "real world", a 20-35 ton light would not survive 30 seconds in the frontal 60 degree arc of main battle tanks: period..... Story over.

WHY? Because 20-35 tons vehicles simply can't carry the "mass" necessary to survive modern kenitic energy projecticles. Heck, armies today don't have energy weapons now but if they did, they would only create even more "issues" for these light vehicles.

So why is it MWO has allowed light to be so powerful? I've been in dozens of matches where a single Raven has killed 4 or 5 vehicles; even after getting pounded by direct fire and LRM's??? How is that physically possible? No, they weren't missing either because line-of-sight and line-of-fire is the same...... No lead or super elevation needed.

So, the real question here is why PGI have created invulnerable classes of vehicles and what's to keep MWO from becoming "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" where no one has to think; people won't need teams; and, every class of vehicle between lights and assaults are Non-value added?

How is that fun?

First of all: yeah, a light can get those kills. However, it is much more harder to get because of the lower alpha and usually the enemies are beaten up before.

If the light mech really got those kills by himself: welcome to potato tier. I did that as well...in T4-5. Try it in T1 and we talk again.

Secondly, most powerful? A class which gets literally hardcountered by a whole weapon system (streaks) is the most powerful... yeah, right.

Thirdly, as Battlemaster already said: arguing with physics is...not so smart. Try to get a 100t behemoth walking on two legs. In most cases the underground wouldn't support its weight

Edited by Bush Hopper, 23 May 2017 - 07:49 AM.

[Grus]

Darian DelFord, on 22 May 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

ROFL

Sorry do not know to many light chassis that consistently can arm weapons greater than 400 meters. Also do not know to many pilots who will let you get a 2nd shot off on them without them reacting.

There is much much more to playing a light than what you listed. With 12 mechs on the field, good luck getting anywhere without being seen on these small *** maps.

my kit for can carry 4med Las and hit out to 700m so yeah... And you're teir 1? Makes me wonder how hard you padded your stats to get there.

[Darian DelFord]

SQW, on 22 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

What are you guys on about? Engagment range for over 50% of the maps are within 400-500m. Crimson Strait, THE most popular map, have you literally waiting for people to come out of tunnel at 300m while having overhead shield from LRMs. Same goes for HPG and Mining. If your 50kph SRM boat is finding it hard to close in, it's not the game's fault. Brawling is alive and well.

As for lights being less agile, MWO gave you ACH pilots the false impression that your mech is an assault. It's not an 135kph Atlas. Lights are suppose to be a fragile skirmishers that should only engage during moments of opportunity. Even with decoupling, lights are still dangerous as long as you aren't trying to take on half of the enemy team on your own at SPL range.

First off I do not know to many lights that can engage in the 400 to 500 meter range. most lights are less than 300 and even more still are less than 200. In regards to Crimson being the most popular map.... opinion.

Lights are hit and run mechs. Light brawling is dead.... IMHO this was a result of the resizing.

I understand since you have only been with MWO for a little over a year, you do not have the perspective of lights that many in this thread have who have been here for 5+ years. Lights have been directly and indirectly nerfed more than any other chassis. This skill tree is no exception. It took skills that lights needed to survive and buired them deep in useless trees. And empowered streaks to the point they are OP against lights now when you factor everything in.

So once you have a few more years under your belt in MWO and can see both the past and the present state of not only light mechs but mechs in general you will understand why light pilots are salty.

Asym, on 23 May 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

Good grief !

Ton per ton, light mech's now are the most potent vehivles in MWO. Im the "real world", a 20-35 ton light would not survive 30 seconds in the frontal 60 degree arc of main battle tanks: period..... Story over.

WHY? Because 20-35 tons vehicles simply can't carry the "mass" necessary to survive modern kenitic energy projecticles. Heck, armies today don't have energy weapons now but if they did, they would only create even more "issues" for these light vehicles.

So why is it MWO has allowed light to be so powerful? I've been in dozens of matches where a single Raven has killed 4 or 5 vehicles; even after getting pounded by direct fire and LRM's??? How is that physically possible? No, they weren't missing either because line-of-sight and line-of-fire is the same...... No lead or super elevation needed.

So, the real question here is why PGI have created invulnerable classes of vehicles and what's to keep MWO from becoming "Rock-and-Sock'em-Robots" where no one has to think; people won't need teams; and, every class of vehicle between lights and assaults are Non-value added?

How is that fun?

You sire have no idea what your talking about . Not unexpected from someone who has been on the forums for just over 2 months.

Grus, on 23 May 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

my kit for can carry 4med Las and hit out to 700m so yeah... And you're teir 1? Makes me wonder how hard you padded your stats to get there.

LOL and your kit will die to just about anything with that load out. I am sorry, but a kit with only 4 ML's does not stand a chance in most situations and will be one of the first targets of opportunity. That build is considered an easy kill. Especially in a light vs light fight.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 23 May 2017 - 11:52 AM.