35 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. How many might've quit because of the complex skill maze, the junk nodes or it's general implementation? This isn't designed to be a "MWO is ending!" or "That guy quit!" thread but to ask a question. With this game's incredibly stagnant growth how much do these people quitting (or at least; stop spending money) hurt?

[9812051221181719]

We can all keep bit#hing about the tree, but PGI is too dam ignorant and arrogant to comprehend this or willingness to listen!

[Johnny Z]

I think the maze thing is funny. But the complaints are even more hilarious.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Anyone who answers this thread in agreement with you either hasn't quit or is interested in mining salt. Not gonna be a lot of objective answers here.

[Bud Crue]

No way of knowing. We can guess, I suppose using steam charts and leaderboards over the coming months, but honestly who knows. My own opinion is that given the seemingly "incredibly stagnant growth" (as you put it) even the loss of a few players will be felt.

As to why they quit? Again, who knows? It could be the skills tree UI, the gated nodes, the engine decoupling, the general refusal of PGI to make an effort at making CW fun and engaging to a wider population, the wait times in oceanic, the nerfing of a favorite mech, etc. The motivations that any one player might have at finally reaching their breaking point and leaving an activity that is supposed to be fun...are legion around here.

Edited by Bud Crue, 22 May 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[cazidin]

ScrapIron Prime, on 22 May 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

Anyone who answers this thread in agreement with you either hasn't quit or is interested in mining salt. Not gonna be a lot of objective answers here.

I'm not looking for agreement per se, as I really don't mind the skill tree (and even made TWO separate guides for it!

Bud Crue, on 22 May 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

No way of knowing. We can guess, I suppose using steam charts and leaderboards over the coming months, but honestly who knows. My own opinion is that given the seemingly "incredibly stagnant growth" (as you put it) even the loss of a few players will be felt.

As to why they quit? Again, who knows? It could be the skills tree UI, the gated nodes, the engine decoupling, the general refusal of PGI to make an effort at making CW fun and engaging to a wider population, the wait times in oceanic, the nerfing of a favorite mech, etc. The motivations that any one player might have at finally reaching their breaking point and leaving an activity that is supposed to be fun...are legion around here.

Right. Even people who still play but have closed their wallets exacerbates the problem. Has (or will) the skill maze bring in new players?

[ScrapIron Prime]

cazidin, on 22 May 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

I'm not looking for agreement per se, as I really don't mind the skill tree (and even made TWO separate guides for it!

Which i checked out. Good work.

My two cents, i like the skill tree. Its a little big, which turns people off, but the results are quite cool.

[Acehilator]

Steam charts paint a pretty obvious picture, there is no discernible loss of players. Activity is slightly above the normal level for the last 6 months, and with the energy weapon rebalance and new tech arriving in quick succession, it will stay that way.

New tech and a Civil War event have the potential to bring this game up to Steam release numbers, even with PGI wasting the opportunity for a small marketing push outside of Steam and the game's own website.

[Johnny Z]

ScrapIron Prime, on 22 May 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

Anyone who answers this thread in agreement with you either hasn't quit or is interested in mining salt. Not gonna be a lot of objective answers here.

My answer is objective. If the tree was crap I would say it.

I have already gone into why its so well done a few times.

The complaints on the other hand have no merit.

[Bud Crue]

cazidin, on 22 May 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

I'm not looking for agreement per se, as I really don't mind the skill tree (and even made TWO separate guides for it!



Right. Even people who still play but have closed their wallets exacerbates the problem. Has (or will) the skill maze bring in new players?

I think olds who have left may return for a bit upon hearing that MWO finally dropped a "skills tree". I fear however that most will see what we have been given, play around with it for a bit. Then wonder "WTF is this mess? It isn't a tree. Nodes are not skills. And I'll be damned if I can figure out why anyone would bother doing this just to play with their mechs." And then leave again.

As to the idea of the skills tree attracting actual honest to god new players? Well, first PGI would need to advertise. Since they don't any new players we get are largely word of mouth or incidental. I don't see the presence of the skills tree, for good or ill being a factor in that.

[Johnny Z]

Acehilator, on 22 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Steam charts paint a pretty obvious picture, there is no discernible loss of players. Activity is slightly above the normal level for the last 6 months, and with the energy weapon rebalance and new tech arriving in quick succession, it will stay that way.

New tech and a Civil War event have the potential to bring this game up to Steam release numbers, even with PGI wasting the opportunity for a small marketing push outside of Steam and the game's own website.

Exactly.

The skill tree design is near perfection. Lack of story and character and player character creation and first person mechbay etc, all obviously missing that a 10/10 game would have, is whats keeping this game from being the best.

Things that MechWarrior 2 had.

The skill tree is none of those things. As good as it is.

One of the devs said in one of the podcasts they were flying to close to the sun. He was right, whats in game is basically the best of any game available, its whats not in game that's holding it back.

Perfect games are out there but they get trolled heavily. M&B II is one that has nearly everything done perfectly. Delayed indefinitely.... Everyone and their dog has tried to invest in it. They say its delayed now for consoles but no one really knows.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2017 - 06:49 AM.

[Acehilator]

OMG Johnny, I told you two or three times alreay, stop your ridiculous white knighting. Just because it does not have a negative impact on player numbers doesn't mean that the skilltree is "near perfection". It is a small step up from what we had before, with too much dev time spent on it for too little gain. The only thing about MWO that is near perfection are Alex' mech models, and nothing else. And looking at PGIs track record, that is not going to change.

[Johnny Z]

Acehilator, on 22 May 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

OMG Johnny, I told you two or three times alreay, stop your ridiculous white knighting. Just because it does not have a negative impact on player numbers doesn't mean that the skilltree is "near perfection". It is a small step up from what we had before, with too much dev time spent on it for too little gain. The only thing about MWO that is near perfection are Alex' mech models, and nothing else. And looking at PGIs track record, that is not going to change.

Its even better than I am saying. That's why some are quitting.

In game is getting trolled as hard as these forums....

I feel quite strongly this game is missing some elements, and if this tree had not done all it has I would be the first to say it was a waste or other such things. The new tree couldn't be better.

The new tree rewards real pilots and is yet another FU to bots and cheats.

Same with the pin point accuracy instead of RNG cone of fire is an FU to bots.

The tree may not have been designed to be an FU to bots and cheats, but that is one of the side benefits.

Anyone quitting now, good riddance. This game will be getting rid of accounts regardless.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2017 - 07:14 AM.

[Acehilator]

Johnny Z, on 22 May 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Its even better than I am saying. That's why some are quitting.

In game is getting trolled as hard as these forums....

I feel quite strongly this game is missing some elements, and if this tree had not done all it has I would be the first to say it was a waste or other such things. The new tree couldn't be better.

The new tree rewards real pilots and is yet another FU to bots and cheats.

Same with the pin point accuracy instead of RNG cone of fire is an FU to bots.

The tree may not have been designed to be an FU to bots and cheats, but that is one of the side benefits.

Could't be better? You seem to have a strange idea of what is "good" and what is not. And bots/cheaters are such a small problem in MWO, it is not even woth mentioning.

[Anunknownlurker]

Well, it's cut down how much I play significantly. I log on, stare at the stupid nodes for half an hour, play one of the four mechs I could be arsed to play hexwarrior online with and then log off.

Not saying I'll quit the game, simply that from a couple of hours a day I'm down to a handful of games.

Not saying whether this thing is well made, poorly made or anything; all I am saying is that, for me, it's added a layer of boring **** to the game which I simply don't want to have to go through everytime I want to play stompy robots.

So, what do I do? Randomly click 91 hexes just to get a game and discover that my previously mastered mech is now sub-optimal, or spend an unpleasant and dull few minutes trying desperately to optimise my previously optimised mech?

Positives - no more rule of three, no more "module hunter online"...but that's about it. Short-term, we'll see some less used mechs and "different" builds but, in a short while the new meta will be established and we'll be right back where we were.

For all you who like it, most excellent, I am happy for you but please be aware that for a lot of us it's added nothing concrete to the game.

How much will this cost PGI? No idea to be honest but I don't think it's going to do a great deal to encourage new players (I've already seen a few start the game and leave pretty promptly) so if more experience players are leaving and not being replaced, that can only end up with one thing.

[Johnny Z]

Acehilator, on 22 May 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Could't be better? You seem to have a strange idea of what is "good" and what is not. And bots/cheaters are such a small problem in MWO, it is not even woth mentioning.

I already mentioned that trolling in game is as strong as on the forums. Its not a small problem the last couple days. This is why I added that this game will be getting rid of more than usual amount of accounts quitting or not.

Some trolls are going all out to cause as much damage in game as possible. Knowing they will be perma banned.....

So ya this game will see a few less accounts, not all from quitting.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2017 - 07:20 AM.

[Burke IV]

If i could just play the game with my mech just how it used to be i probably would be now, but i look at that tree... even for just one mech, i cba. They could have give more armour and less agility and all the rest on a mech by mech basis and totally left that tree out and it would proabably have been all ok. Anyway, it occurs to me that If the skill tree for each mech arrived with its default nodes filled it would give people a clue where to even start with the tree. The defaults should stay a different colour aswell so you have a baseline. That tree is a bit much for a FPS imo.

[ScrapIron Prime]

You see a large screen of blue hexagons and you are overwhelmed.

Seriously... You can do this. Read up on it. Once you do it once or twice its easy.

[Johnny Z]

Burke IV, on 22 May 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

If i could just play the game with my mech just how it used to be i probably would be now, but i look at that tree... even for just one mech, i cba. They could have give more armour and less agility and all the rest on a mech by mech basis and totally left that tree out and it would proabably have been all ok. Anyway, it occurs to me that If the skill tree for each mech arrived with its default nodes filled it would give people a clue where to even start with the tree. The defaults should stay a different colour aswell so you have a baseline. That tree is a bit much for a FPS imo.

No problems here.

Looking at it as a new players he has a huge menu to choose from. Very simply explained.

Some MMO's you have to find a part in a trade menu then go to a crafting station then pay creds to upgrade a single piece of armor. Then do it again for another upgrade to that same piece of armor. Its like learning Chinese.

In the end your armor is exactly like everyone elses.

This is as simple as can be.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2017 - 07:35 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Acehilator, on 22 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Steam charts paint a pretty obvious picture, there is no discernible loss of players. Activity is slightly above the normal level for the last 6 months, and with the energy weapon rebalance and new tech arriving in quick succession, it will stay that way.

New tech and a Civil War event have the potential to bring this game up to Steam release numbers, even with PGI wasting the opportunity for a small marketing push outside of Steam and the game's own website.

Steam charts account for less than 5% of the player base based on Tarogato's monthly stats of accounts active.