26 replies to this topic

[TheMurf]

The slider is interesting.

But saying you can customize your mech while forcing unless nodes is not a choice nor a customization. Maybe make some nodes cost more or make you have range 2 before you can take laser duration 2.

Weapons need to be broken out so the branches for range, uac jams, missile spread, velocity etc are separate,
Operations have separate branches for heat gen, run cool, cool down etc
Same should be applied for each grouping and this would still allow for similar builds yes not exactly cookie cutter and still benefits from the engine desync and improved agility, tankiness etc.

[Mawai]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 May 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Catch up quickly? 2 skill points is 46 matches. That's not quick at all. Even under the old system, it never took me 45 matches to go from basic to mastered. It's way worse for new mechs than the old system.

Really? My average XP/match is currently about 1017. In the old system it required 21.5k + 21.5k + 14.25k = 57.25k xp

For me this would typically be about 57 matches to master a mech (assuming I had already reached basic on two other variants). Of course you could be much better than I am or you could have premium time running, or maximize xp by using the first win of the day bonus ... however, if you want to find how long it usually took you ... just look at your average xp/match and do the math.

On a per mech basis ... the xp required in the old system was 57.25k and in the new system is 91*800 = 72,800

However, in order to master one mech in the old system you had to reach basic on three mechs (and elite on at least one other mech in the weight class). So in order to master a single mech in the old system it actually cost 57.25 + 14.25 + 14.25 = 85.75k experience.

So ... once you factor in the three mech requirement, the old system cost more experience to master a single mech. Of course, mastering other variants of the same mech did not cost as much which is probably why PGI used 57.25 + 14.25 = 71.5k ~ 72.8k as the base scale for experience in the new system.

The bottom line is that PGI aimed to make the new system cost no more experience than the old system ... and it doesn't ... which means that it really doesn't take any more time either.

Of course, the new system is far more granular. The old system earned a module slot for 21.5k experience while in the new system you earn about 1/3 of the skills for the same investment. On the other hand, the old system unlocked the basic skills much quicker. So there are trade offs but the new system should take a player just about as long to master a mech as the old one.

[Mawai]

TheMurf, on 22 May 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

The slider is interesting.

But saying you can customize your mech while forcing unless nodes is not a choice nor a customization. Maybe make some nodes cost more or make you have range 2 before you can take laser duration 2.

Weapons need to be broken out so the branches for range, uac jams, missile spread, velocity etc are separate,
Operations have separate branches for heat gen, run cool, cool down etc
Same should be applied for each grouping and this would still allow for similar builds yes not exactly cookie cutter and still benefits from the engine desync and improved agility, tankiness etc.

Then you would also be happy with the higher nodes costing more skill points? That is the trade off here. You pick up some nodes that do something (perhaps not that useful) vs. accumulating more skill points to get higher levels of a skill.

They will not build a skill tree in which you can just pick +10% to range for 5 skills points at 2% each.

You will just end up with cookie cutter builds and pure min/max which doesn't inspire any sort of variety or choice. On the other hand it sounds like you would prefer a skill system in which each skill can be purchased separately for an increasing number of skill points ... for example, if you have to decide between 10% cool down for 15 skill points vs. 6% cooldown and 6% velocity and 4% range for the same 15 skill points then there might be some deciding to do (i.e. if each level of a skill cost skill points equal to its level).

Finally, you DO get to customize even if you have to choose some nodes you don't want as much to get to others that you do. If anything, I would like to see a bit more inter-connection on the skill trees and replace the single starting node with 3 so that folks have some choice about which route to take through the skill tree. Right now the tree is designed with one root and either zero, one or two leaves from each connection. It might be more interesting to have a choice of roots to start at and then have 0,1,2 or 3 leaves on some branches. (on the other hand some folks have already complained that it is too complex ... so maybe not ).

[Johnny Z]

I laugh thinking about how some cry babies will act on the forums after repair and rearm is added.

[TheMurf]

I know I do not have a solution and I am simply talking about the skill tree though I do not agree that it is customization when you are forced to choose a node that you may or may not need.

The more interconnect nodes sounds like a good idea.

As for your cookie cutter suggestion I do not agree as you can't say that everyone is not doing that right now using only survival, agility and sensors for most mechs.

[xXJ35T3RXx]

TheMurf, on 22 May 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

I know I do not have a solution and I am simply talking about the skill tree though I do not agree that it is customization when you are forced to choose a node that you may or may not need.

The more interconnect nodes sounds like a good idea.

As for your cookie cutter suggestion I do not agree as you can't say that everyone is not doing that right now using only survival, agility and sensors for most mechs.

Not so long ago you HAD to get 8 Basic skills BEFORE you could touch the Master level skills, and that was AFTER you HAD to get 2 other variants of a 'mech you may not have wanted up to the same level. Cry me a river about a couple of pathing issues.

[TheMurf]

Now now no one is crying here, no need to start getting leaky. I hoped to discuss the tree is all. I have said in this many times, this a better direction.