34 replies to this topic

[LMP]

I read this in another forum.

Exard3k, on 21 May 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

Values change depending on the weight class. Light Mechs get more % than Assaults. A Kodiak (100t) gets a maximum of +25% while a 35t mech gets a maximum of +39%. Makes it more worth investing in the survival tree as a lighter mech.

What I'd like to see is a discussion about configuring an assault mechs Skill Tree, what should be used and what shouldn't be to get the best bang for the buck. I know that there is probably no one size fits all solution so you can be mech and utilization specific as well as what would work well for all.

[Danjo San]

LMP, on 22 May 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

I read this in another forum.



What I'd like to see is a discussion about configuring an assault mechs Skill Tree, what should be used and what shouldn't be to get the best bang for the buck. I know that there is probably no one size fits all solution so you can be mech and utilization specific as well as what would work well for all.

http://metamechs.com...es/skill-trees/

try this for a starter ...

[Wintersdark]

LMP, on 22 May 2017 - 08:36 AM, said:

I read this in another forum.



What I'd like to see is a discussion about configuring an assault mechs Skill Tree, what should be used and what shouldn't be to get the best bang for the buck. I know that there is probably no one size fits all solution so you can be mech and utilization specific as well as what would work well for all.

Keep in mind while Assaults gain a smaller percentage of armor/structure, they gain more raw points due to the much larger amounts the percentage is applied to. The different percentages doesn't then really change the value; it just keeps the survival tree viable for lights without being grossly OP for assaults.

[DavidStarr]

Are there any assaults that shouldn't go all-in on the armor/structure bonuses?
Are there any assaults that shouldn't skill survivability at all? I suspect the answer to this is "no", but there are many things I don't know about in this game.

[Elizander]

I usually just run my 100 tonners for fun and most of them have a bajillion guns so I just try to max out firepower and kill people with 80-120 alphas powered by coolshots at the cost of mobility and survival trees. :3

[LMP]

I tested the Cool Down Nodes with 2 C-LPLs firing simultaneously to see if they did anything worthwhile, but I found that with them turned on they didn't make a large enough difference that I could measure. With them turned on I could hold down the button and get 8 shots off before I got the over heat warning, but without them I could get 9 shots so they must make a difference, but not enough to feel like they were doing me any good and in fact they made my mech overheat faster which felt like a bad thing.

The way I tested was to enable as many Cool Down Nodes as I could without enabling any other Nodes that effected cooling in any way and I got most of them turned on. Then, I shut off the top node of the tree to disable the entire tree to test with them off.

The Range nodes are definitely worth using for the C-ER LL, C-LPL and C-ER PPC and you need to enable a bunch of Cool Down Nodes to get them all so I ended up turning off all the Cool Down Nodes that I could. With the Range Nodes all turned on, the C-LPL with the MK I Targeting Computer I end up with 713 meters range and I liked that a lot, really gave me a feeling of power.

[Daggett]

DavidStarr, on 23 May 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Are there any assaults that shouldn't go all-in on the armor/structure bonuses?
Are there any assaults that shouldn't skill survivability at all? I suspect the answer to this is "no", but there are many things I don't know about in this game.

It depends on loadout and existing quirks.
For example a brawler with AC20 + SRMs or similar needs survivability much more than a sniper with 6 Large Lasers or the hated LRM-Assaults.
Another example are high-alpha, high heat builds like the laser-vomit Marauder-IIC. When played well you won't have much exposure-time and thus can get away without the survivability tree.

On the other hand if you run a brawler which already has some solid armor/structure quirks like the Atlas you need a very good reason to not massively beef this thing up with the survival tree because the quirks will get buffed too.

Edited by Daggett, 26 May 2017 - 05:33 AM.

[LMP]

On my dual UAC10 Highlander HGN-IIC-CC I carry 6 boxes of ammo and by using the 2 Magazine Capacity nodes I was able to drop 1 box of ammo and ended up with the same amount of ammo as 6 boxes. The Missile Rack nodes work the same if you are carrying 6 boxes of missiles you can drop one.

[LMP]

Daggett, on 26 May 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

It depends on loadout and existing quirks.
For example a brawler with AC20 + SRMs or similar needs survivability much more than a sniper with 6 Large Lasers or the hated LRM-Assaults.
Another example are high-alpha, high heat builds like the laser-vomit Marauder-IIC. When played well you won't have much exposure-time and thus can get away without the survivability tree.

On the other hand if you run a brawler which already has some solid armor/structure quirks like the Atlas you need a very good reason to not massively beef this thing up with the survival tree because the quirks will get buffed too.

Found an interesting tidbit about the Survival Tree.

“If your mech weighs 80 tons or less, focus on Armor nodes. If it weighs 85 tons or more, focus on Structure nodes. This will maximize the effective HP of your mech.”

http://metamechs.com.../survival-tree/

[Daggett]

LMP, on 27 May 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Found an interesting tidbit about the Survival Tree.

“If your mech weighs 80 tons or less, focus on Armor nodes. If it weighs 85 tons or more, focus on Structure nodes. This will maximize the effective HP of your mech.”

http://metamechs.com.../survival-tree/

While true mathematically and a good guideline, i tend to value armor a bit higher for two reasons:

• While structure-shredding MGs and LBX-AC are not the most used weapons, i stumble upon those quite often.
  
• As soon as one component is cored you become a much higher priority target. Players tend to chase you more aggressively when they see unprotected internals, especially when wielding above weapons.

So it can make sense to take armor over stucture even if structure would give you slightly more HP.

Edited by Daggett, 27 May 2017 - 01:10 PM.

[Elizander]

This is close to what my default template is for any mech nowadays.

https://kitlaan.gitl...s=Miscellaneous

It has survival(21), mobility(21), operations(15), sensors(9), aux (1) and 24 available points for weapons or more suvival, etc.

Of course some mechs that I use for fun don't follow it at all, but it's been pretty convenient for most non-lulz builds I have.

Edited by Elizander, 08 June 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[LMP]

In all my builds mobility is always 21, that's a constant. Got to have those speed tweaks.

[Thrudvangar]

LMP, on 08 June 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

In all my builds mobility is always 21, that's a constant. Got to have those speed tweaks.

So you're wasting 21 points for speed tweak to get 3 or 4 mph on an assault maybe?...good...

[Steel Raven]

Thrudvangar, on 08 June 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

So you're wasting 21 points for speed tweak to get 3 or 4 mph on an assault maybe?...good...

Agility also boost your torso turn and pitch, something slow mechs need badly.

[LMP]

Thrudvangar, on 08 June 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

So you're wasting 21 points for speed tweak to get 3 or 4 mph on an assault maybe?...good...

There are a lot of modules where you can't tell the difference if they are on or off. You can definitely tell the difference when the speed tweaks are enabled. I avoid the ones that don't make a noticeable difference and I don't use the ones I just believe will do something good for me. Mostly I decide what to use by testing rather than choosing by what I think I need. All my mechs far out preform the same ones I used under the old system so it's not like there is a shortage of the amount of nodes you have to work with.

[Thrudvangar]

Yeah thats true but i really won't put any point into speed tweak itself on an assault.
And the other points still depends on the mech and its role...and team or solo play.

Putting 21 points into agility into every mech just to have a constant i a waste imho.

Some mechs dont even need agility points... like the linebacker.
Just take a look at PGIs PDFs where the showed how far the decoupled every mechs agility from the engine,
its a good overview to see how may/may not need some points there.

Before i skill my mechs, ill go into the testing grounds and drive a few rounds to see what they may need
then switch to QP and then i'm starting to skill.

[Thrudvangar]

From that standard template above... that 10% armor out of the 21 points in survival, for example, is
a bad choose because an assault will get more survivalbility out of the structure quirks. The FEW armor
points for these many nodes are = zero!

Just wanna help, dont waste your points while using "standard" templates. It's not worth it.

[Rhaegor]

I find myself going heavy into firepower, operations, sensors, and auxiliary for all mechs.

[H i e u]

Thrudvangar, on 08 June 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

So you're wasting 21 points for speed tweak to get 3 or 4 mph on an assault maybe?...good...

It is not.
+4mph is good for assault mechs. I usually driving assaults and 5,6 kph is good enough to skill. you can compare to engine upgrading.

[LMP]

H i e u, on 26 June 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

It is not.
+4mph is good for assault mechs. I usually driving assaults and 5,6 kph is good enough to skill. you can compare to engine upgrading.

With engines putting a four ton heavier engine in will get you another six kph unless you already have the largest engine in it and my clan assaults all have the largest engines in them.

If you want to forgo the speed tweak you are better off doing it on a mech that's already fast. I did that on my Timber Wolfs and it worked out well. More armor and less speed on a heavy is generally the better option provided it's already relatively fast.