James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:
I never said it was more durable. I said it was more agile and the TRO bears this point out, especially 3050, as that was part of the fluff for the Marauder. This was also in many of the 3050 novels that covered the clan invasion. When I said it was more robust, I was specifically referring to the electrical components and myomar bundles that comprises the things that alters pitch, yaw, and twisting. Yes, those components are more robust for that particular mech.
I'd counter that the Timber Wolf is more akin to the F22 and the Marauder with the original Star League components being the F16 latest version. They're close, with the Timber Wolf having a slight edge. I also never claimed that the Marauder had superior tech, so please refrain from putting words into my mouth.
Higher speed does not mean greater agility. It only means that you can go faster due to bigger engine sizes. Yes, the Timber Wolf is faster than the Marauder, but it is not as agile.
As for the fluff surrounding the Marauder and the Clans they did not have the schematics to the mech. Clan scientists reversed engineered a Marauder and created the base IIC variant. They used Clan weapons, armor, and electronics to be superior to the original Marauder, but it was 10 tons heavier that was empty weight. As I said, they didn't have the specs when they left the IS for the original Marauder.
All of this information is in the TROs and in the novels so it is canon. Just because you don't believe it to be canon is on you.
Please cite your source material, because no TRO ever written states that the Marauder is more nimble than a Timber. TRO 3050 pg. 174 explains how the various successor states upgraded their Marauders with recovered tech, no where on that page does it say that the 400 year old Marauder was more agile or nimble than a modern state of the art Omnimech. Thanks to issues with the unseen, Marauders didn't pop back up until TRO Project Phoenix on pg. 48, and again no reference to any agility or 'nimbleness' greater to a Timber.
And again which novel. It wasn't in any of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy books, none of the characters piloted (or on the clan side faced) a Marauder. Pretty sure it was never mentioned at all in any of the later books like Assumption of Risk, Natural Selection, Wolf Pack, or Blood of Heroes.
Something isn't 'canon' because you claim it is. I've got pretty much every single sourcebook or TRO or novel uploaded on my computer, so please enlighten me to which book you are getting this 'information' from that is so 'canon'.
Hell here is a copy off the Sarna website for the IIC page.
One of the most notable
IIC BattleMechs, the
Marauder IIC is based upon one of the most iconic 'Mechs in existence, the
Marauder.
Touted as one of the most effective 'Mechs of all time, the
Marauder saw wide usage during the
Star League era by all the
Great Houses. The design was also much favored by both the
Star League Defense Force's Regular and Royal unit as well as its famed
Gunslingers, with many examples taken on
Operation EXODUS. The belief that the
Marauder was a precursor to a new 'Mech design paradigm disappeared in the
Inner Sphere as the
Succession Wars dragged on; however, in the same year as the
Second Succession War broke out the
Clans developed an advanced refit of the venerable design later dubbed the
Marauder IIC, utilizing technology already far in advance of that rapidly disappearing in the
Successor States.
[4]
It is to the credit of its original engineers that no production variants of the
Marauder IIC appeared until a wellspring of new technology emerged in the 3050s and '60s, with
Clan Star Adder introducing a visually refreshed model carrying the then-newly developed
Heavy Lasers that quickly spread to the
Cloud Cobras,
Goliath Scorpions,
Snow Ravens,
Blood Spirits and
Diamond Sharks.
[5] The efforts of the mercantile Sharks would result in the further spread of the design to the
Inner Sphere-based
Invading Clans, followed by
Clans Jade Falcon and
Ghost Bear introducing new
Marauder IIC variants and constructing new productions lines for them on
Sudeten and
Satalice respectively during the
Word of Blake Jihad.
[1]
Weapons and Equipment[edit]
As with the
Warhammer IIC, the
Marauder IIC is ten-tons heavier than its Inner Sphere progenitor, pushing it into the assault weight class, but otherwise the design matches the original's ground speed through the use of a 340-rated standard
Fusion Engine. Though both designs carry eleven and half tons of armor, the
Marauder IIC's use of more advanced
Ferro-Fibrous plating gives it superior protection, with an
Endo Steel frame freeing up weight. While structurally the
Marauder IIC appears to offer little advantage over the
LosTech refitted
Marauders introduced by the Successor States, the blatant superiority of
Clan weaponry allows the design to pound its opponents to pieces in short order.
[4]
Built around the
Extended Range Particle Projector Cannon, one of the most powerful weapons in the Clan arsenal, the
Marauder IIC's weapon layout is typical of the standard
Marauder, each pod-like forearm carrying an ER PPC paired with
Medium Pulse Lasers. Where the
Marauder IIC differs is with its torso weaponry, replacing the top-mounted
autocannon and its vulnerable ammunition-feed linkage with another ER PPC, and adding a set of four
ER Small Lasers. Twenty-one
double heat sinks keep heat levels manageable, with an enterprising
MechWarrior able to use
volley fire to keep up a steady barrage of fire.
[
And heres the standard Marauder page from Sarna.
The
Marauder was first built by
General Motors in
2612 for use as an attack and direct fire support
BattleMech. The first 'Mech to diverge from the traditional humanoid shape of previous machines, the
Marauder was one of the most well-known 'Mechs in existence and originally meant to usher in a new generation of 'Mechs. Unfortunately, with the fall of the
Star League, this new generation never quite materialized. On its own merits though the
Marauder was a devastatingly powerful 'Mech, outclassed only by larger machines like the
Stalker and
BattleMaster.
[6][7]
During the years of the Star League the
Marauder was a favorite in the
Gunslinger Program thanks to its tremendous firepower, while its advanced electronics endeared it to many
battalion and
regimental commanders. On the hellish battlefields of the
Succession Wars, massed formations of
Marauders proved devastating as shock units in breaking through enemy lines. However, the rarity of these 'Mechs (
House Liao only fielded several hundred
Marauders total in
2828) often meant they had to be paired with other, similar 'Mechs such as the
Warhammer and
Thunderbolt.
[6][7]
When the
Helm Memory Core was recovered, the
Marauder was an obvious candidate for
lostech upgrades.
House Davion were among the first to field an updated variant, but their eagerness backfired when
House Kurita captured
Quentin - and its
Marauder factory - in the
War of 3039. With the Kuritans in possession of this first variant, the
Federated Commonwealth decided to build a second using a different configuration. Other lostech-inspired variants were also built in time for the
Clan Invasion.
[8]
A second revitalization of the
Marauder occurred at the hands of the Capellan Confederation, though notably they had never before built the 'Mech themselves. On behalf of Ceres Metals Industries, the
Chancellor himself,
Sun-Tzu Liao, negotiated a deal to acquire the design from General Motors in exchange for allowing
HildCo Interplanetary to resume exporting its products to the
Federated Suns. While a success, disturbing rumors from the
Periphery reported a number of these seemingly backwater realms fielding updated
Marauders of their own, with origins suspected to be of a
sinister nature.
[9]
Weapons and Equipment[edit]
The
Marauder carried a payload dedicated to long-range firepower in the form of two Magna Hellstar
PPCs and a GM Whirlwind
Autocannon/5. These three weapons all had similar range profiles that allowed the
Marauder use them to their maximum effect at long ranges. The PPCs were carried in armored gauntlets, matching the same configuration as the
Warhammer, but the arms' versatile ball-and-socket joints provided a faster traverse rate and superior field of fire. Compact enough to be carried in the arms the Hellstar PPCs were also durable enough to withstand heavy hand-to-hand combat, allowing the
Marauder to bludgeon opponents into scrap. The
autocannon was mounted atop the right torso and fed by one ton of ammunition in the left torso. Added as an afterthought, its connection to the main chassis was tenuous and a successful hit could easily disable the system, while the gun itself was often temperamental. If the enemy was able to close the range, the
Marauder could rely on its two Magna Mk II
Medium Lasers, also mounted in the gauntlets, which provided adequate defense against other 'Mechs.
[6][7]
The once-unique silhouette of the
Marauder made it much harder to target than the more common humanoid models. It also originally carried eleven and a half tons of special Valiant Lamellor armor which was less massive and superior at distributing kinetic and thermal energy than other standard armor types. As the knowledge for its manufacture was lost though, many
Marauders became a patchwork quilt as sections were damaged and had to be replaced. Sixteen
heat sinks easily allowed a competent
MechWarrior to keep their waste heat under control, while a powerful nineteen-ton
fusion engine gave it a decent cruising speed of 43.2 km/h.
[6][7]
The
Marauder was not without its flaws, potent though it was. In addition to the weak linkage between its autocannon and chassis, the rotation rings connecting the chassis with the leg assemblies was a similar weak point in the design. Many
Marauder pilots took to mounting improvised armoring around these points in an attempt to protect these vulnerabilities. The powerful HiRez tracking system, located in the forward section of the 'Mech, was also known for impeding the pilot's field of view.
[6]
So where in there does it state anything about this agility of a Marauder. I'm not even saying yay or nay about the issue of engine desync, I'm just tired of people using 'lore' incorrectly to argue points.