88 replies to this topic

[Athom83]

Tincan Nightmare, on 25 May 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

~snip~

All this talk of Marauders makes me want my Marauder II, the 100 ton IS Marauder upgrade which has some pretty silly/fun variants (like the one with 180 rocket tubes alongside the PPCs and Medium lasers).

[Hopeasusi]

S p a n i a r d, on 25 May 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

How, oh, how? Common sense. Because you said that if a heavy (a 92 kph fatazz) is more agile than a light, then there is zero reason to use a light. Is Oxide a light?

You figure.



No, **you lost credibility in my eyes by saying that if a Linebacker is more agile than a light mech, then there is zero reason to use lights. Linebacker is more agile than light mechs right now. Are there zero lights in CW? QP? Are Linebackers the only pic for Heavy Clan Mechs right now?

Obviously, no.

My point in saying that the Adder was trash, was not to never care about it, but that it was not an adequate example for the balance issues post-patch since that mech has been avoided like a plague even before all this. By using a long-time low quality mech and stating it as if the latest patch caused it, you were actually the one who's doing the cherry picking. Few people using Adder is a different balance issue.



still pretty much the same? Not really from what I've seen. And you claim that your solution will give the cure for all these balance woes? I doubt that.

Just stop. As you don't even seem to grasp the basic idea of my proposition. Or are you just trolling? Honestly mate, are you?

Agility = turning and twist speed.
It has nothing to do with top speed.

I NEVER said linebacker is more agile than every single light mech in the game(so you oxide rant is not even on point). You just assumed that for you own reasons. If I didnät say it clearly enough, it's more agile than some light mechs. More agile, not faster in terms of top speed. Those are 2 different things mate.

Adder is not cherry picking, as it is a bad mech. The kind that needs buffs the most. How it is a different balance issue? Agility is the one thing lighter mechs can have without super buffs to make them more viable. So it is about this matter.

There are lights in FP, I even said that. Do even read through what otherd say? But the only reason for lights there is tonnage limit, plain and simple. I asked you to give any other reason to use a light than tonnage and you gave none.
People play all mechs, that doesn't make them all good. Hell I love my panther 10K, but it's a bad mech that I only play for fun. Man I would love it to be good enough for serious use.

Linebacker only choise, did I ever imply that? It is an example for a problem. Not the only choice. 2 very different things.

Spaniard, if your so adamant that heavies need that much agility. Then give some other idea how to make lights actually good. I mean as good as heavies in fighting, not just running around. Because fighting is all this game rewards you from.

[MustrumRidcully]

Hopeasusi, on 26 May 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Just stop. As you don't even seem to grasp the basic idea of my proposition. Or are you just trolling? Honestly mate, are you?

Agility = turning and twist speed.
It has nothing to do with top speed.

I NEVER said linebacker is more agile than every single light mech in the game(so you oxide rant is not even on point). You just assumed that for you own reasons. If I didnät say it clearly enough, it's more agile than some light mechs. More agile, not faster in terms of top speed. Those are 2 different things mate.

Adder is not cherry picking, as it is a bad mech. The kind that needs buffs the most. How it is a different balance issue? Agility is the one thing lighter mechs can have without super buffs to make them more viable. So it is about this matter.

But the LInebacker having a poower agility than the Adder will not make the Adder more popular, because there are better Lights than the Adder. THe Adder will need to find a niche against the other lights before it needs to worry about how it competes against heavier mechs. (And with the drop decks in CW, it is almost neccessary that lighter mechs are weaker than heavier mechs, otherwise why bother with a tonnage limit and trying to balance Clan vs IS tech with tonnage differences?)

[Hopeasusi]

MustrumRidcully, on 26 May 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

But the LInebacker having a poower agility than the Adder will not make the Adder more popular, because there are better Lights than the Adder. THe Adder will need to find a niche against the other lights before it needs to worry about how it competes against heavier mechs. (And with the drop decks in CW, it is almost neccessary that lighter mechs are weaker than heavier mechs, otherwise why bother with a tonnage limit and trying to balance Clan vs IS tech with tonnage differences?)

Not on its own, but it's a start.
This also applies to all lighter mech, if this mechs have a real agility advantage on bigger mechs. There's real value of having one. Now a heavy can just turn with you and makes lights bad.

Making heavies less agile to give smaller mechs something was supposed to be the biggest thing about engine decouple, but it did very little in this matter. Heavies are still king of the hill, now even more cause 100ton assaults got nerfed in to oblivion with the chance, but most heavies didn't lose much.

Balance by tonnage is a stopgap solution. Not a real solution to balance in anyway, cause not every game mode has this nor can have this balance method.
Tonnage difference is just a clear indicator of bad balance between IS and clan. If they were balanced, you would not need it.

Edited by Hopeasusi, 26 May 2017 - 06:31 AM.

[S p a n i a r d]

Hopeasusi, on 26 May 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

I NEVER said linebacker is more agile than every single light mech in the game(so you oxide rant is not even on point). You just assumed that for you own reasons. If I didnät say it clearly enough, it's more agile than some light mechs. More agile, not faster in terms of top speed. Those are 2 different things mate.

Spaniard, if your so adamant that heavies need that much agility. Then give some other idea how to make lights actually good. I mean as good as heavies in fighting, not just running around. Because fighting is all this game rewards you from.

True absolutely true. You never said that. And I made a mistake about the Oxide. It was supposed to be the Jenner IIC.

But you said this:

Hopeasusi, on 25 May 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Also you forget that if some heavies have better agility than light mechs, there is absolutely zero reason to use a light.

I made no such assumption, you said it yourself.

(Here we go again) Is your statement true? Nope.

That's why I brought up the difference in top speeds. Linebacker having a better turn/torso twist speed doesn't really mess up the balance since it has only 97 kph top speed. It has no ECM. It's a fatazz. Almost impossible to not notice when it's fatazz suddenly moves in your FOV. No confusion created when it tries to circle you since it's big and easy to hit. Easy to hit on the battlefield.

And agreeing to have a Linebacker having high twist speed doesn't mean I want *all* heavies to have high twist speed. You're the one who made an assumption there.

I agree with you. We really are running circles here. This might be my last reply here since it's futile to continue

Having a Linebacker with better twist speed than a light mech, while irritating from a certain point of view, *does not* mess up balance (imo). People are using it as a poster mech of messed up balance, and while on the surface it does seem true, the Linebacker will do nothing like that.

I'm willing to make a bet that there won't be a Linebacker swarm meta. And no "nerf Linebacker" whining due to a "not fun gameplay" or "incredibly OP" characteristic.

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 26 May 2017 - 07:23 AM.

[SushiSalad]

PGI should make all the mechs behave the same rather than class them as IS mechs or Clans mechs. Seems like they really not sure what they are doing and worst, they are making the clans mechs behave like a IS mechs (or worst performing. Maybe PGI really hates the Clans).

Either they follow the Battletech universe rules and keep the Mechwarrior game going if not they better don't use the Mechwarrior name for their game.

Firstly nobody can deny the Clans has superior technology as compared to IS. IS have been into civil wars and their technology was supposed to be degrading and most scientists and engineers are killed during the conflict.

Firstly, Clans fight in a different config as compared to IS. Their so called "lance" or aka "Star" has 5 mechs vs IS 4 battlemechs.

[Hopeasusi]

S p a n i a r d, on 26 May 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

True absolutely true. You never said that. And I made a mistake about the Oxide. It was supposed to be the Jenner IIC.

But you said this:



I made no such assumption, you said it yourself.

(Here we go again) Is your statement true? Nope.

That's why I brought up the difference in top speeds. Linebacker having a better turn/torso twist speed doesn't really mess up the balance since it has only 97 kph top speed. It has no ECM. It's a fatazz. Almost impossible to not notice when it's fatazz suddenly moves in your FOV. No confusion created when it tries to circle you since it's big and easy to hit. Easy to hit on the battlefield.

And agreeing to have a Linebacker having high twist speed doesn't mean I want *all* heavies to have high twist speed. You're the one who made an assumption there.

I agree with you. We really are running circles here. This might be my last reply here since it's futile to continue

Having a Linebacker with better twist speed than a light mech, while irritating from a certain point of view, *does not* mess up balance (imo). People are using it as a poster mech of messed up balance, and while on the surface it does seem true, the Linebacker will do nothing like that.

I'm willing to make a bet that there won't be a Linebacker swarm meta. And no "nerf Linebacker" whining due to a "not fun gameplay" or "incredibly OP" characteristic.

Linebacker is an example mate. You do know what an example is, right?
In this case, it's the best one due to having better agility and acceleration than some light mechs.
First you say Linebacker moves 92 kph and now 97, maybe you could even have the facts right before you post.

Why any heavy needs better twist speed or turning than a light mech? Please give any reason that makes sense. As you seem to be hell bent on the idea that it's a good thing a heavy can out turn a light mech.

Linebacker is a good mech, far from the OP stuff. Never said anything about that, it still brakes the laws of physics for an attempt at making goodish against Night Gyr. Though you should never try to make good mechs better to match OP stuff. You need the other way round or you simply ruin the balance even more for bad mechs.

The only light that is small enough to use that size to stay not seen is Locust. If you have a hard time spot other lights, then the problem is at your end. Hitting a 35ton light became easy after the resize of mechs. It was also the patch that made some lights badly underpowered, due to becoming a lot bigger and not getting anything in compensation.

There is a reason lights are so rare in QP and is them not being very good overall. Cheetah is good, but others not so much. Fast mediums can do all they do, just with more armor.
Also anything that gives power to lights vs bigger mechs is a good thing. Not enough for slow lights, but at least a start.

Edited by Hopeasusi, 26 May 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[S p a n i a r d]

Once again,

Hopeasusi, on 25 May 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Also you forget that if some heavies have better agility than light mechs, there is absolutely zero reason to use a light.

Wrong. For my other points, refer to the previous posts.

End of story.

Edited by S p a n i a r d, 26 May 2017 - 08:00 AM.

[Hopeasusi]

S p a n i a r d, on 26 May 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

Once again,



Wrong. For my other points, refer to the previous posts.

End of story.

Top speed and what other points?

Lets try this again without any particular mechs.

Do you think it's ok for a heavy mech to be able to out manuver a light mech?
If you do, please explain why.

Do you not think agility should not be a balancing tool in favor of the lighter mechs?
If you do not, please explain why.

Just answer those 2 questions, please.

Or do you simply want to troll?

Ps. These 2 question are base for my whole idea.

Edited by Hopeasusi, 26 May 2017 - 08:16 AM.