23 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

I like the new skill tree. I like the fact that the game got harder. We need more simulator in this game and less arcade mode twitchiness. You do want to increase time to kill while keeping people entertained/challenged?

Just make a kiddy pool with all the arcade mode that casuals can handle in it. Then section off Faction Warfare into a separate area with no training wheels. Keep everyone happy and playing with a place for everyone.

Anyways, I can always dream. Just wanted to give some support to the Devs, I appreciate the work you put in. It isnt perfect and could use a tweak here and there, but all in all a net positive experience.

Good Job Devs, nice to see you put out something that wasnt total c*@p.

[Vellron2005]

+1

[Johnny Z]

Agreed. Sim ftw.

[godzella]

I like it, too.
Needs some kinks ironed out, but I really like the general direction they are heading with the skill tree.

[Wil McCullough]

the game got harder?

all you need to do is 1) pick an agile mech, 2) load up as much short range "boom" on it and 3) go hug enemy mech butts.

for example, a linebacker with 4asrms and 2spls. or an arctic cheetah with 6spls.

ttk is ridiculously short now because all those "every mech should be slow and ponderous cos sim lul" guys talk a lot about survivability on the forums but die in literally seconds when they meet an enemy in-game. most of them can't turn to save themselves from a 36+ point alpha to their rear.

there's a reason why i'm at 8+kdr and 5 wlr this season. i'm normally a 3> kdr and 1.x wlr kinda guy.

game is pathetically easy as hell now thanks to the mobility nerfs.

[Johnny Z]

Wil McCullough, on 24 May 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

the game got harder?

all you need to do is 1) pick an agile mech, 2) load up as much short range "boom" on it and 3) go hug enemy mech butts.

for example, a linebacker with 4asrms and 2spls. or an arctic cheetah with 6spls.

ttk is ridiculously short now because all those "every mech should be slow and ponderous cos sim lul" guys talk a lot about survivability on the forums but die in literally seconds when they meet an enemy in-game. most of them can't turn to save themselves from a 36+ point alpha to their rear.

there's a reason why i'm at 8+kdr and 5 wlr this season. i'm normally a 3> kdr and 1.x wlr kinda guy.

game is pathetically easy as hell now thanks to the mobility nerfs.

Well maybe if you troll hard enough in game and on the forums you can get it rolled back.

[Wil McCullough]

Johnny Z, on 24 May 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

Well maybe if you troll hard enough in game and on the forums you can get it rolled back.

i don't troll and i'm not planning to start.

there's no reason to roll back the skill tree. the skill tree is fine.

base mech agility on the other hand isn't. the stupid thing is that it's a catch-22 cycle. metas fall and rise any time they change anything. there will always be a meta and meta humpers will meta hump.

if they nerf the agility of light mechs and nimble mechs like the linebacker, we're right back at the overwhelming meta of long range ppfld. if they nerf the damage of ppfld, then mid range laser vomit rises to become the new meta. if they nerf laser vomit then we're back at short range zoom and boom.

the stupid thing is that people are worshipping the survivability tree like it's the coming of the messiah.

"IT GIVES ME EXTRA EQUIVALENT OF 3 TONS OF ARMOR WAOW" and all that nonsense.

meanwhile, they still devote <5 points of armor to their back.

they could have extra 80 tons of front loaded armor and it wouldn't make a difference in ttk to a nimble brawler hitting them in their back.

which is easier to do now because everyone turns like a truck with a flat.

[Davegt27]

wow that was the longest It has ever taken to get a match

time hack 5:17 AM EST

[Lily from animove]

What exactly got harder? stuff is a bit different now, but surely not harder. it is only more complicated for those not spending a bigger amount in MWO keeping up with min/maxing stuff. But "hard" is hardly the right word.

Edited by Lily from animove, 24 May 2017 - 02:18 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Wil McCullough, on 24 May 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

i don't troll and i'm not planning to start.

there's no reason to roll back the skill tree. the skill tree is fine.

base mech agility on the other hand isn't. the stupid thing is that it's a catch-22 cycle. metas fall and rise any time they change anything. there will always be a meta and meta humpers will meta hump.

if they nerf the agility of light mechs and nimble mechs like the linebacker, we're right back at the overwhelming meta of long range ppfld. if they nerf the damage of ppfld, then mid range laser vomit rises to become the new meta. if they nerf laser vomit then we're back at short range zoom and boom.

the stupid thing is that people are worshipping the survivability tree like it's the coming of the messiah.

&quot;IT GIVES ME EXTRA EQUIVALENT OF 3 TONS OF ARMOR WAOW&quot; and all that nonsense.

meanwhile, they still devote &lt;5 points of armor to their back.

they could have extra 80 tons of front loaded armor and it wouldn't make a difference in ttk to a nimble brawler hitting them in their back.

which is easier to do now because everyone turns like a truck with a flat.

With the amount of cheating and match fixing going on bragging about an 8+ KDR is calling yourself a troll.

[Wil McCullough]

Johnny Z, on 24 May 2017 - 01:20 AM, said:

With the amount of cheating and match fixing going on bragging about an 8+ KDR is calling yourself a troll.

so you're saying i did better than all the supposed cheats and match fixers even though i only play legit?

i'm not bragging about my 8+kdr in the first place.

i'm pointing out how different my stats are this season post-patch compared to previous seasons.

also trust me, i haven't improved much and my gameplay hasn't changed. this patch DECREASED ttk from personal experience even though everyone's raving about how it's increased. it's EASIER now to quickly and consistently smash the opfor if you know what you're doing. that's the point i was trying to make.

[Johnny Z]

Wil McCullough, on 24 May 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

so you're saying i did better than all the supposed cheats and match fixers even though i only play legit?

i'm not bragging about my 8+kdr in the first place.

i'm pointing out how different my stats are this season post-patch compared to previous seasons.

also trust me, i haven't improved much and my gameplay hasn't changed. this patch DECREASED ttk from personal experience even though everyone's raving about how it's increased. it's EASIER now to quickly and consistently smash the opfor if you know what you're doing. that's the point i was trying to make.

Ya your just a legit player pointing out the update has lowered TTK with your 8 KDR.

Well trolling on the forums and in game has been as bad as its ever been lately, glad to hear your not a part of it.

[Wil McCullough]

Johnny Z, on 24 May 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

Ya your just a legit player pointing out the update has lowered TTK with your 8 KDR.

Well trolling on the forums and in game has been as bad as its ever been lately, glad to hear your not a part of it.

yup that's what i'm saying in a nutshell.

helpful hints for anyone struggling post-patch:

1) mechs are just as vulnerable from the back as they were pre-patch
2) the agility nerf in the update took away any chance of anyone responding effectively if you strike them from the back first.
???
3) profit!

[visionGT4]

I think its been great, something new to be OCD about and a reason to dust off old favourites and take them for a burn. I dont see the honey moon period lasting much longer tho

Was about to open wallet for the Hero enforcer.. until i dropped into a pug match in a 3x ac10 Ilya and what did i see on my team? 5x mad IIc's, 2x nyt gyr's and a ach who boasted about being full survivability with 2x erLL. Oh and vindicator & dragon slayer + other worthless IS mechs.

God i cant wait for HBS Battletech.

[Lily from animove]

Wil McCullough, on 24 May 2017 - 01:44 AM, said:

yup that's what i'm saying in a nutshell.

helpful hints for anyone struggling post-patch:

1) mechs are just as vulnerable from the back as they were pre-patch
2) the agility nerf in the update took away any chance of anyone responding effectively if you strike them from the back first.
???
3) profit!

well the lowered mobility now gives tactical positioning more meaning again. the old system was rather forgiving for derp decisions.

[Wil McCullough]

Lily from animove, on 24 May 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

well the lowered mobility now gives tactical positioning more meaning again. the old system was rather forgiving for derp decisions.

this can be a problem by itself.

by nerfing mobility, you nerf mechs' ability to do risky things. taking risks is now unfeasible because you get punished way worse when you try something silly.

now players have lesser real options when it comes to moving around the map or positioning themselves.

it makes for extremely stale gameplay where the strategy for both sides are to wait until the other makes a mistake first. then punish punish punish. it's like frozen city assault 24/7. poke trading until the cows come home.

that being said, mechs with high mobility and agility can take advantage of this (like i did this week) by just creeping around to the back and surprisebuttsecks guys that you know will be where you expect them to be and are too clumsy to react to the strategy.

[Tk3997]

Slow and clunky =/= skillful
Faster paced =/= "arcade"

Anyone that says this is dumb, in many cases faster paced games take considerably more raw skill to be good at since everything happens quickly leaving less room to react and requiring more training to react correctly and quickly. The chaff is more easily separated from the wheat when time pressure is a factor. In point of fact a slower more ponderous shooting game tends to have a lower the skill cap. With everyone artificially limited by the games slower pace the advantage of reacting quickly and knowing systems well is mitigated, the inferior less skillful player has more time to think things out.

It's really rather amusing how people equate fastness to "less skill" when in fact one of the principle things that separates the highly skilled from the lesser is the ablity to react quickly and correctly in a rapidly evolving situation under stress. In a game where physical prowess is effectively meaningless just about the only thing that separates player is an understanding of the games mechanics and their speed and consistently to exploit them under stress. Making things faster pace makes that HARDER, slowing it down makes it easier and just allows the mediocre to most easily compete.

Piloting a vehicle that is fast, agile, and responsive will require much more skill and attention then a slow ponderous ****. Those with the reactions and skill to do so will be more clearly separated from the pack if pilot skill rather then mechanically imposed limits determines more of the limits of the vehicles capability. By the same token it will make the work of shooting harder as the enemy will likewise be faster and more agile, while if he too is slow and ponderous he's a much easier target.

Slowing the game down doesn't make it harder, it makes it easier. Enemy movement becomes predictable and fights become by the numbers slugging matches. High time to kills tend to promote very math driven affairs lacking any form of spontaneity and without any real room for raw talent to shine. You can't defeat a raid boss in WoW with fancy foot work and quick reactions and in a shooting game with high time to kill there's no real chance to outplay and outfight multiple opponents.

All this "drrrr mechs should be slow" crowd really shows is that they're more concerned with the canon for a universe that frankly went to crap over a decade ago anyway then they are about having a game people might actually want to play.

It's questioanble if this crap even fits canon anyway. For instance in canon jump jets are supposed to hurl mechs hundereds of meters in seconds at most and allow the thing to land basically any which way it wants. They're acutally regared as a reasoanble substitue for high ground speed or aglity in closing distance or manvuering around, in MWO jump jets are garbage on most mechs that can barely lift larger ones nowadays and impart no real horztional movement. Mechs in canon can engage in complex manuvers like close combat invovling kicking and punching, this implies a level of aglity that fails to fit with "slow and ponderous". They're also supposed to be all terrian and signifgantly more mobile then tanks, which is the main reason they even exist within canon, but in game they're so terribly sluggish that modern day tanks would run rings around most of them.

Anyway the new skill system to me was just another decent idea ompletely bungled it by making it pointlessly complex and adding even more grind. I actually came back after a long absence when I heard of this patch to have a look at this new system, what i found quickly made me decide to remain away. So now I have to pay C-bills to even use the god damn expereince I'm earning and it's a sunk cost non-transferable between mechs, with no increase in income to compensate?

Yeah, no, piss off. Back to giving my money to Wargamings boat simulator, at least I don't have to spend credits to use the XP I earn on my ship commanders in that game.

Edited by Tk3997, 24 May 2017 - 03:24 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Wil McCullough, on 24 May 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

"IT GIVES ME EXTRA EQUIVALENT OF 3 TONS OF ARMOR WAOW" and all that nonsense.

meanwhile, they still devote <5 points of armor to their back.

they could have extra 80 tons of front loaded armor and it wouldn't make a difference in ttk to a nimble brawler hitting them in their back.

which is easier to do now because everyone turns like a truck with a flat.

I've kind of noticed the opposite, as far as the survivability tree goes. While all that extra armor isn't doing anything to protect the rear if it's all loaded on the front, a general extra 30%+ of structure is nothing to sneeze at, on any mech. I've been running an 8xSRM6 Huntsman, and these mythical soap bubble enemies are yet to present themselves.

I think all the melodrama about the agility nerfs is a bit over the top too. While my 100 tonners are all more ponderous, i'm still yet to encounter an enemy that can 100% stay out of my arcs with some hard reversing and panicked twisting. I'm more cognizant now of being supported when I do anything, instead of relying solely on my own stupendous firepower and ability to twist and soak (and oh man, the Atlas is fun as hell). Big mechs now need support, instead of being their own support, and I fully endorse this.

[CDLord HHGD]

Zolaz, on 23 May 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

Just wanted to give some support to the Devs, I appreciate the work you put in. It isn't perfect and could use a tweak here and there, but all in all a net positive experience.

QFT

[James The Fox Dixon]

Zolaz, on 23 May 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

I like the new skill tree. I like the fact that the game got harder. We need more simulator in this game and less arcade mode twitchiness. You do want to increase time to kill while keeping people entertained/challenged?

Just make a kiddy pool with all the arcade mode that casuals can handle in it. Then section off Faction Warfare into a separate area with no training wheels. Keep everyone happy and playing with a place for everyone.

Anyways, I can always dream. Just wanted to give some support to the Devs, I appreciate the work you put in. It isnt perfect and could use a tweak here and there, but all in all a net positive experience.

Good Job Devs, nice to see you put out something that wasnt total c*@p.

You hit the nail on the head. It's a vast improvement over what we had to deal with previously.

Howdy Zolaz!