47 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

Death of DPS builds. Good one. =)

The only thing that has changed with LRM boats is Radar Deprivation. If you take all 5 nodes of it on the skill tree, you cancel locks just like before. If you take 3 or less, they can get a salvo into you after youre in cover. If you take none... 2-3 salvoes.

LRM pilots have noticed this and lurms are more common this week. The weapon system will ramp back down once players get more comfy with the skill tree and the new meta. And inexperienced (or poor) LRM players will once again face the ugly truth that firing at max range into mountainsides while getting isolated and flanked isn't all its cracked up to be.

[Zolaz]

My (F)Atlas runs around with a BAP, Command Console and a pretty complete Sensor package. Feels like the Eye of Sauron with the range I get.

[sycocys]

The best way to counter LRMs is to set up a firing line behind cover and make the other team walk into it.

Then they have at least one ding dong that can't even contribute to the fight, and they need to lemming into focus fire.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

The best way to counter LRMs is to set up a firing line behind cover and make the other team walk into it.

Then they have at least one ding dong that can't even contribute to the fight, and they need to lemming into focus fire.

The best way to counter that is to send in a lance of light mechs with Narc and start Narcing the biggest threat first or force a break up of the firing line.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 25 May 2017 - 05:55 AM.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

The best way to counter that is to send in a lance of light mechs with Narc and start Narcing the biggest threat first or force a break up of the firing line.

Narc is just as useless if the LRM boat can't get missiles to the enemies, plus then you have a lance of lights with no legs and 3 tons each dedicated to supporting LRMs instead of hurting the enemy - also probably dead because they ran in front of a firing line.

Edited by sycocys, 25 May 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

Narc is just as useless if the LRM boat can't get missiles to the enemies, plus then you have a lance of lights with no legs and 3 tons each dedicated to supporting LRMs instead of hurting the enemy - also without legs because they ran in front of a firing line.

Those are some dumb light mech pilots. A CB trained light pilot would be sure to sneak behind them and narc without warning.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Those are some dumb light mech pilots. A CB trained light pilot would be sure to sneak behind them and narc without warning.

Okay, say you can get a narc on - the missiles still can't get there and your mech still has 3 tons dedicated to supporting a system that isn't doing any damage.

Only works if you have a moderately coordinated team vs a totally uncoordinated one where some guy is going to split out of the firing line and cover for no reason at all.

Which is why LRMs are the worst weapon system in the game. You almost need to dedicate 2+ mechs to make one mech work okayish in about 10% or less of the matches played.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

Okay, say you can get a narc on - the missiles still can't get there and your mech still has 3 tons dedicated to supporting a system that isn't doing any damage.

Only works if you have a moderately coordinated team vs a totally uncoordinated one where some guy is going to split out of the firing line and cover for no reason at all.

Which is why LRMs are the worst weapon system in the game. You almost need to dedicate 2+ mechs to make one mech work okayish in about 10% or less of the matches played.

I know all about LRMs and how to make them work. We were in CB together and I did run fire support lances while being drop commander in 8v8 and 12v12. When I was part of HSX, we always ran a combined arms team. In 8v8, it was 2 lights, 2 LRM supports, and 4 brawlers. In 12v12, it was light lance, brawler lance, and fire support lance. So yeah, I know how to make it work and work well.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

I know all about LRMs and how to make them work. We were in CB together and I did run fire support lances while being drop commander in 8v8 and 12v12. When I was part of HSX, we always ran a combined arms team. In 8v8, it was 2 lights, 2 LRM supports, and 4 brawlers. In 12v12, it was light lance, brawler lance, and fire support lance. So yeah, I know how to make it work and work well.

OLD, since I joined just outside of CB, has always run 8/12 brawlers and the only times I can recall ever having slight LRM issues is in CW1 (8 HBRs + 4 Timbers) or the moonshots. They've always been just pathetically easy to counter if terrain is catching them - and the opponent has no counter for a full team of heat efficient pinpoint brawlers.

Occasionally we'd have one guy run LRMs, but that was because he was playing on hotel wifi from his semi-truck, and it really only worked because of the fact that everyone else on the team was brawling and pushing the enemy into locations without proper cover.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

OLD, since I joined just outside of CB, has always run 8/12 brawlers and the only times I can recall ever having slight LRM issues is in CW1 (8 HBRs + 4 Timbers) or the moonshots. They've always been just pathetically easy to counter if terrain is catching them - and the opponent has no counter for a full team of heat efficient pinpoint brawlers.

Occasionally we'd have one guy run LRMs, but that was because he was playing on hotel wifi from his semi-truck, and it really only worked because of the fact that everyone else on the team was brawling and pushing the enemy into locations without proper cover.

Even in OB, we were doing this. 12v12 was released during OB not CB. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's not viable. It's hard to change people's perception of something when their only experience is MW2-4. In MPBT, it was much different because roles played a huge part of it due to them being stock mechs.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Even in OB, we were doing this. 12v12 was released during OB not CB. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's not viable. It's hard to change people's perception of something when their only experience is MW2-4. In MPBT, it was much different because roles played a huge part of it due to them being stock mechs.

I don't argue that it "can't" work, just that it doesn't work well against people that are well coordinated. Limiting your firepower capabilities when the maps directly work against you, or completely losing the potency of your entire team with the loss of just a couple mechs just isn't a good strategy the way they pushed this game's design.

Would probably have a different opinion if they ever did something to really promote mixed builds and well rounded teams over PP, all one range up to your max, damage - or made the maps large enough that you could scout and make weak points in the cover. Unfortunately the current game and map design makes LRMs by far the weakest weapon to run, even MG's are more useful.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 25 May 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

I don't argue that it "can't" work, just that it doesn't work well against people that are well coordinated. Limiting your firepower capabilities when the maps directly work against you, or completely losing the potency of your entire team with the loss of just a couple mechs just isn't a good strategy the way they pushed this game's design.

Would probably have a different opinion if they ever did something to really promote mixed builds and well rounded teams over PP, all one range up to your max, damage - or made the maps large enough that you could scout and make weak points in the cover. Unfortunately the current game and map design makes LRMs by far the weakest weapon to run, even MG's are more useful.

Umm you do realize that we were well coordinated and used Teamspeak right? You can't get any more coordinated than that and having twice a week training sessions. You seem to be under the impression that I did this without voice comms and we didn't train. It works and you'll just have to trust me on that. If you want a second opinion then send Zolaz and Flying Blind a private message and ask them. They were part of the regular group I ran and they can verify everything I've said.

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

Umm you do realize that we were well coordinated and used Teamspeak right? You can't get any more coordinated than that and having twice a week training sessions. You seem to be under the impression that I did this without voice comms and we didn't train. It works and you'll just have to trust me on that. If you want a second opinion then send Zolaz and Flying Blind a private message and ask them. They were part of the regular group I ran and they can verify everything I've said.

No I don't have to trust you, because I know that that system of play doesn't actually work when you play competitive teams.

Throw up some videos, if you don't have those organize a few matches with some of the current competitive teams and they can throw up the video.

I'd really like to see it as a viable option, but its just not the way this game is designed to play out.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 26 May 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

No I don't have to trust you, because I know that that system of play doesn't actually work when you play competitive teams.

Throw up some videos, if you don't have those organize a few matches with some of the current competitive teams and they can throw up the video.

I'd really like to see it as a viable option, but its just not the way this game is designed to play out.

As I said we never took videos because we didn't think about it. I also said that you can talk to two people who dropped with me every day using the exact same tactics I described with LRMs. Since you refuse to do so then you test it out. I don't have time to deal with your asinine demands.

[sycocys]

I don't have to test it out..... because I know it doesn't work in competitive matches.

Why would I waste my time talking my team into rigging their mechs so we could go out and get our arses handed to us? We all know that your tactic doesn't actually work competitively in this game already.

On the other hand, you are adamant that it works, but refuse to provide any actual evidence of it working and even Zolas who has been posting in these threads won't back up your claims as far as I can tell. What does private messaging accomplish? So he can tell me in private that it only worked when you had weapons and tech limits in place to make your system viable? Well you could make MG's only on one side viable if you required the other team to use SHS and flamers only.

[James The Fox Dixon]

sycocys, on 26 May 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

I don't have to test it out..... because I know it doesn't work in competitive matches.

Why would I waste my time talking my team into rigging their mechs so we could go out and get our arses handed to us? We all know that your tactic doesn't actually work competitively in this game already.

On the other hand, you are adamant that it works, but refuse to provide any actual evidence of it working and even Zolas who has been posting in these threads won't back up your claims as far as I can tell. What does private messaging accomplish? So he can tell me in private that it only worked when you had weapons and tech limits in place to make your system viable? Well you could make MG's only on one side viable if you required the other team to use SHS and flamers only.

Blah blah blah blah blah...I'm afraid to test out something because I'm a Mr. Solo Glory Hound that only is in it for me and my team can all go die while I try to solo every enemy mech. I'm afraid to learn real tactics and use real skill to win matches instead of the crutches I have today.

There I summed up your position. You claimed they are inefficient and that what I said didn't happen. Funny, but my W/L ratio on top of my mech stats that are archived say differently. Do you want to try again or are you content to be an armchair warrior that thinks he knows everything?

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 26 May 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Only reason I hate lrms is when I get a good one on one battle and then the lrms show up.

I really wish lrms were los and they would buff them into a useable weapon.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 26 May 2017 - 10:26 AM.

[Radbane]

Truth be told, I can't remember when I got killed by Lurms the last time. I probably have recently, but did not notice while I got pounded by Energy and Ballistics at the same time. But as a Frequent LRM user myself I gladly make others remember =P

I also enjoy killing those who charge in below my minimum range with my backupweapons, may it be quad mediums, ERLLS or Dual Gauss. I dunno OP ... is charging in the best solution?

[sycocys]

James The Fox Dixon, on 26 May 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

There I summed up your position. You claimed they are inefficient and that what I said didn't happen. Funny, but my W/L ratio on top of my mech stats that are archived say differently. Do you want to try again or are you content to be an armchair warrior that thinks he knows everything?

SMH, I'm starting to doubt you've even played this game outside of closed beta.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Radbane, on 26 May 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

I also enjoy killing those who charge in below my minimum range with my backupweapons, may it be quad mediums, ERLLS or Dual Gauss. I dunno OP ... is charging in the best solution?

Charging only works against a pure LRM boat. For those of us who run mixed builds and directly support the brawler line, life ain't that simple, and the rushing light may quickly lose a leg.

sycocys, on 26 May 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

SMH, I'm starting to doubt you've even played this game outside of closed beta.

I dropped with him last night, in fact.

But next time we drop together, im making you suit up a lurm boat. I wanna see munitions where your mouth is, James. =)