20 replies to this topic

[Hindenhoot]

Aesthetics and mood-wise, Terra Therma is my favourite map in the game. The ambient sounds and the way the lava squelches up under mech's feet are so well done. And yet I've only played it a handful of times in 200 hours of play.

Tourmaline, a much more often picked map has an ambient temp of 97 degrees. Terra is 95 degrees (so effectively the same in game terms).

Anyway, I feel like a big part of why Terra Therma is never picked is because it looks like it's sooooo much hotter. Especially on the map selection thumbnail.

Just wanted to point that out, as I imagine newer players don't know this.

EDIT: Turns out the degrees thing is just fluff and means nothing. See below.

Edited by Dahoota, 25 May 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[El Bandito]

Plus Therma is full of obstacles that impede you movement, and you can't see crap with regular vision. Tourmaline is more open and has clear view--something most players like.

[Mcgral18]

Terra is also hotter than listed in certain areas (middle of volcanoes)

Hottest place in the game used to be Caustic Caldera, middle of that.

[TLBFestus]

Don't forget what I consider to be an even BIGGER misdirection (WARNING, disturbing revelation );


CANYON NETWORK does not have nearly as much water as the loading screen claims!

Sorry...it had to be said.

[Vellron2005]

Try standing in the lava on Terra Therma, and tell me if Torumaline will overheat you.. And also, the latest Therma rework made it so dark that you can't not use nightvision..

Final point.. Torumaline is much more open and spacious.. altho, we always play it in the same way on the same spots, and always get flanked from the same side and die..

[Hindenhoot]

Oh not trying to take away from Tourmaline, IMO it probably has the most balanced terrain in the game - something for any range/build.

Just wish I got to play Terra a bit more that's all. I feel it's a severely underrated map.

Not that I would know though, only played it 4-5 times the whole time I've been playing MWO.

Edited by Dahoota, 24 May 2017 - 11:16 PM.

[Requiemking]

Why not remove map and mode voting entirely and replace it with a pair of spinners? Map is chosen first, then mode. Every map has an equal chance to appear, but not every mode because some maps aren't suitable for certain modes.

[Logan812]

TLBFestus, on 24 May 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Don't forget what I consider to be an even BIGGER misdirection (WARNING, disturbing revelation );


CANYON NETWORK does not have nearly as much water as the loading screen claims!

Sorry...it had to be said.

The loading screen is just seeing a mirage.

Edited by Logan812, 24 May 2017 - 11:49 PM.

[Hindenhoot]

TLBFestus, on 24 May 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Don't forget what I consider to be an even BIGGER misdirection (WARNING, disturbing revelation );


CANYON NETWORK does not have nearly as much water as the loading screen claims!

Sorry...it had to be said.

It also may not even be water - on higher graphics settings it looks like oil with that greeny-pink slick to it.

[AnTi90d]

I don't even have the game currently updated, but I felt obligated to step in.

Dahoota, on 24 May 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tourmaline, a much more often picked map has an ambient temp of 97 degrees. Terra is 95 degrees

Don't pay attention to those values in the loading screens.

They're 100% fluff and only serve to mislead the playerbase.

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=686548357

(Yeah, that is slightly outdated and should probably be retested. Just don't believe anything that the loading screens say.)

Edited by AnTi90d, 25 May 2017 - 12:18 AM.

[StealthdragonB]

The only thing that isn't mentioned in the table above is the lava in terra therma, which from what I remember is basically like being flamered, until you reach 90% heat, at which your legs start melting.

[meteorol]

The whole narrative of "people pick cold maps" has largely been a myth.

People pick maps which are not ****. Just take Shitpine Peaks or Polar Shitlands. Utterly terrible maps. They only really get picked when there are plenty of lrm boats, though they are cold. Tourmaline on the other hand is a pretty regular pick, even though it's not a cold map.

Frozen city is another good example. The old frozen city was almost a guaranteed pick when it was up for voting. People kept claiming " the bads who can't manage heat only pick cold maps", but the moment they made Frozen City a way worse map with the rework, it drastically dropped in the voters favor. People voted Frozen City because they liked the brawly layout, not because it was cold.

The most popular maps, that were pretty much guaranteed to win votes (Canyon Network, HPG and Mining Collective) were never among the coldest maps, still they regulary won most of the votes, because their map design is simply better compared to other maps. They are relatively balanced, and most importantly, have spots for both short and long range playstyles to work. No matter which mech you bring, you will never think "yeah, well, f*ck".

The only reason why we see less canyon and mining and HPG nowadays is because escort works on non of them and incursion only on HPG, which drastically cuts down their chances to come up in the vote. If it wasn't for that, they would still win out over "colder" maps for the vast majority of votes.

Tldr: People vote for maps that are not sh*t, environment temperature is a secondary decider at best.

[Ruccus]

The heat isn't why I rarely vote for Therma, it's the colour palette. The blacks and reds and claustrophobic skybox makes it usually the least pleasant choice of the available maps. I test my builds on Tourmaline so I'm usually fine on Therma heat-wise. In fact looking at my stats I have a 1.33 winning ratio (101 wins, 76 losses) on Therma though that would include games on the old map.

My suggestion would be to simply lighten up the skybox. Therma's skybox has tall black mountains in the background with a reddish-black sky that seems to darken the terrain. A simple quick fix would be to swap out Terra Therma's blackish-red skybox with Emerald Taiga's lighter yellow/orange skybox, then redesign Therma's skybox to be more 'world with volcanic activity' and less 'Center of Mordor'.

[Hindenhoot]

AnTi90d, on 25 May 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

I don't even have the game currently updated, but I felt obligated to step in.



Don't pay attention to those values in the loading screens.

They're 100% fluff and only serve to mislead the playerbase.

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=686548357

(Yeah, that is slightly outdated and should probably be retested. Just don't believe anything that the loading screens say.)

Huh, interesting, thanks for this.

TBH I didn't actually notice the "degrees" difference until I saw it in the private game lobby where you select the map you want.

meteorol, on 25 May 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

The whole narrative of "people pick cold maps" has largely been a myth.

People pick maps which are not ****. Just take Shitpine Peaks or Polar Shitlands. Utterly terrible maps. They only really get picked when there are plenty of lrm boats, though they are cold. Tourmaline on the other hand is a pretty regular pick, even though it's not a cold map.

Frozen city is another good example. The old frozen city was almost a guaranteed pick when it was up for voting. People kept claiming " the bads who can't manage heat only pick cold maps", but the moment they made Frozen City a way worse map with the rework, it drastically dropped in the voters favor. People voted Frozen City because they liked the brawly layout, not because it was cold.

The most popular maps, that were pretty much guaranteed to win votes (Canyon Network, HPG and Mining Collective) were never among the coldest maps, still they regulary won most of the votes, because their map design is simply better compared to other maps. They are relatively balanced, and most importantly, have spots for both short and long range playstyles to work. No matter which mech you bring, you will never think "yeah, well, f*ck".

The only reason why we see less canyon and mining and HPG nowadays is because escort works on non of them and incursion only on HPG, which drastically cuts down their chances to come up in the vote. If it wasn't for that, they would still win out over "colder" maps for the vast majority of votes.

Tldr: People vote for maps that are not sh*t, environment temperature is a secondary decider at best.

I don't doubt its not the only factor, but I think a fair comment is that people vote for a map that suits their mech build, and given that the meta for the last year or so has been skewed towards energy weapons, it makes sense that players prefer cooler maps.

By a wide margin the most played maps in PUGs, in order, are Polar, Frozen and Crimson. Hell on my own stats apparently I've played Polar 20% than any other map and I NEVER vote for it.

Likewise HPG, Canyon and Mining are among the cooler maps.

Edited by Dahoota, 25 May 2017 - 01:27 AM.

[Kanil]

meteorol, on 25 May 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

Tldr: People vote for maps that are not sh*t, environment temperature is a secondary decider at best.

My map stats don't really agree with this. My most played maps are Polar, Plexus, and the two Frozen Cities.

It's only about 10% more than a "typical" map and Alpine does do poorly, so at some point ****** map design becomes a greater negative than cold temperatures becomes a positive... but the community really does seem to vote poorly designed cold maps more than anything else. At least, in my experience.

[meteorol]

Dahoota, on 25 May 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

I don't doubt its not the only factor, but I think a fair comment is that people vote for a map that suits their mech build, and given that the meta for the last year or so has been skewed towards energy weapons, it makes sense that players prefer cooler maps.

By a wide margin the most played maps in PUGs, in order, are Polar, Frozen and Crimson. Hell on my own stats apparently I've played Polar 20% than any other map and I NEVER vote for it.

Likewise HPG, Canyon and Mining are among the cooler maps.

Two things to adress here:

Maps like Frozen City and Crimson had a massive uptick in winning votes because they are often the least terrible maps in the vote, which is a direct result of HPG, Canyon and Mining not being in the vote due to their incompatibility. Heck, if you got Alpine, Forest, Therma and Crimson in the vote, it's pretty obvious what people are going to vote for.

Nowadays, HPG, Canyon and Mining only ever come every 4 or 5th vote, because escort and incursion automatically exclude them from the vote.
Before incursion and escort were added, we had a pretty steady supply of complains against mapvoting, because people grew tired of of playing those three maps over and over again.

As for Polar, in my experience it's a map that is massively more popular in lower tiers, because LRMs are a lot more popular. I'm playing with an alt. account for 3 months now, and while moving through T5-3, i saw Polar getting picked way more regulary than on my main that is T1 for ages.

Kanil, on 25 May 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

My map stats don't really agree with this. My most played maps are Polar, Plexus, and the two Frozen Cities.

It's only about 10% more than a "typical" map and Alpine does do poorly, so at some point ****** map design becomes a greater negative than cold temperatures becomes a positive... but the community really does seem to vote poorly designed cold maps more than anything else. At least, in my experience.

Answer above applies aswell. Because of todays gamemode, the "good" maps are very very often not even in the vote. For my alt, the map played most often is Plexus by a considerable margin. From my (subjective) experience that is the case because it turns up in the vote with 3 other utterly terrible maps so often. It's simply the best pick before even considering map temperature. That added, if someone has to chose between a sh*tty hot map, and a sh*tty cold map, naturally most people are giong to pick the cold one.

[Kanil]

I don't have hard numbers for the pre-escort era, but I can assure you Polar and Plexus were already my most played maps before then.

These maps are also the newest maps in the game, so there was a time when they literally never showed up, allowing every other map to build up a lead on them.

Again, I don't have hard numbers, but I guarantee you between Polar's release and escort's release, the most played maps (for me, at least) were Polar and Plexus. Probably by a pretty wide margin, too.

[Anjian]

El Bandito, on 24 May 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

Plus Therma is full of obstacles that impede you movement, and you can't see crap with regular vision. Tourmaline is more open and has clear view--something most players like.

Visibility is by far the most paramount feature of every new map design, and I get the same response from other games as well.

[Exilyth]

If canyon network had a circular valley added near each side with two canyons connecting them to the rest of the map, it would be very suitable for incursion.

[meteorol]

Kanil, on 25 May 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

I don't have hard numbers for the pre-escort era, but I can assure you Polar and Plexus were already my most played maps before then.

These maps are also the newest maps in the game, so there was a time when they literally never showed up, allowing every other map to build up a lead on them.

Again, I don't have hard numbers, but I guarantee you between Polar's release and escort's release, the most played maps (for me, at least) were Polar and Plexus. Probably by a pretty wide margin, too.

I can give you some numbers, though they are not really accurate because i can't remember when the maps were introduced but on this account i have 401 matches in Canyon, 393 on HPG, 364 on Mining Collective, 86 on Plexus and just 52 on Polar (which was released before Plexus iirc?)

Compared to my alt account, which was created after the release of escort, and iirc, incursion (not 100% sure about incursion), Canyon 34, HPG 31, Mining 26, 60 on Plexus, 56 on Polar.

I played more Polar Highlands on my alt accounts way through T5-3 than i played on my main in T1, ever. Plexus turns up as much as canyon and HPG combined. Sure, the samplesize is tiny, and it might aswell be a fluke, but from my personal experience the exclusion of HGP, Canyon and Mining from 2 of 5 possible gamemodes had a pretty significant impact on what maps get voted on.