85 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

What made MW2, 3 and even 4 good games was they were campaign driven PvE games, with a decent campaign written for them, first.. and the PvP was really an afterthought... which was tuned after the fact. Because TBH, it's usually easier to tune FPS balance than it is to write good PvE games.

MW2 was and is a semi-decent PvE despite being the best of the bunch but still has its problems there too only revealed years later.
MW3 is too wacky in gameplay for me.
MW4, just not into it despite the storyline.

There does need to be better performance and balance in PvE even with a good story, a number of games have proven this today.

[Lily from animove]

wow, how does a turn based game getting connectivity issues? now thats seriously questioning the devlopers skills, they should probably hire a guy having experience in networking.

Edited by Lily from animove, 30 May 2017 - 07:09 AM.

[Oldbob10025]

I mean come on its made by the creaters of the Game Itself. If they only showed a sliced piece of bread with a mech on it I would still be drooling as they know what they are doing and have the LORE behind them as well..

No worries and I would rather them get it right on launch day than mess up like MWO did SOOOOOO many times...

[Imperius]

Oldbob10025, on 30 May 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

I mean come on its made by the creaters of the Game Itself. If they only showed a sliced piece of bread with a mech on it I would still be drooling as they know what they are doing and have the LORE behind them as well..

No worries and I would rather them get it right on launch day than mess up like MWO did SOOOOOO many times...

I'd rather they never reached the multiplayer tier of the game.

I'm not saying they suck yet. I just wonder what has been sacrificed for the sake of multiplayer?

[FireStoat]

Imperius, on 30 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'd rather they never reached the multiplayer tier of the game.

I'm not saying they suck yet. I just wonder what has been sacrificed for the sake of multiplayer?

The Unity engine they are using requires a modular form of networking for the purpose of multiplayer and from what I've heard from their videos, the best move to get what they wanted was to come up with their own custom code to be bolted on to the game. This would require a few programmers who specialize in writing that code and quite frankly, that kind of programming has nothing to do with the art, animation, story development, or mech designs and balance.

So the tldr version would be, their existing team developing the game in all likelihood didn't have a single staff member pulled from their game development portion to work on the networking code - either new staff members were hired and set to the task, or several existing members were put to the task after they had completed other core portions of the game that they were responsible for.

[TKSax]

Imperius, on 30 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'd rather they never reached the multiplayer tier of the game.

I'm not saying they suck yet. I just wonder what has been sacrificed for the sake of multiplayer?

As far as we know nothing and I am not sure where you have got the idea that anything has. The beta was always going to be skirmish they said that from the very beginning.

[Imperius]

TKSax, on 30 May 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

As far as we know nothing and I am not sure where you have got the idea that anything has. The beta was always going to be skirmish they said that from the very beginning.

Check the way they handled melee for one example. Sp balance is already being affected because pvp.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wildstreak, on 30 May 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

MW2 was and is a semi-decent PvE despite being the best of the bunch but still has its problems there too only revealed years later.
MW3 is too wacky in gameplay for me.
MW4, just not into it despite the storyline.

There does need to be better performance and balance in PvE even with a good story, a number of games have proven this today.

Yes if you compare old games to games from today, they don't hold up. Oddly they held up just fine, and for several years after, at their releases. Games never hold up in hindsight, overall. For their time, they succeeded brilliantly.

[JC Daxion]

Wildstreak, on 26 May 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

The other way around, the MP was a high level goal the highest I think, was aimed as SP unless we reached that and did.
MWT was MP from the outset.

Ohh ok.. I guess i got it backwards.. It's been known to happen. But thanks anyway.

I'd have to think adding MP was a big factor behind more people signing up though.



Now, let the game come out, and Kickstart a Map/story editor already!

[TKSax]

Imperius, on 30 May 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Check the way they handled melee for one example. Sp balance is already being affected because pvp.

Balance is Balance, and yes PVP does have to be considered but I would say that is "affecting" Single player development that is just part of making a game that has both Single Player and PVP. Sounds like your just being alarmist. Have you not been hearing how Mitch talks about how HBS makes games and thier process. They are taking care with each part of the game. Effecting would be multiplayer coding or multiplayer only features that are slowing down or causing HBS to not put features in Single player, and they have given 0 indications that is happening. Regardless of your thoughts on PvP it is really what helps keep games relevant for a long time, MW4 was modded and played for a long time not because of the single player but because of the PvP aspect of the game.

JC Daxion, on 30 May 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

Ohh ok.. I guess i got it backwards.. It's been known to happen. But thanks anyway.

I'd have to think adding MP was a big factor behind more people signing up though.

Now, let the game come out, and Kickstart a Map/story editor already!

Yep PVP was Last, Single player camping was the second level, Skirmish was the first level. They have said they will not do a map/mission editor apparently they did that for one of the shadowrun games and it became a much bigger headache than HBS has the staff to manage, so no editor, and as Mitch says over and over Focus=Quality.

[Wraith31]

Imperius, on 25 May 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

Battletech Game

https://www.kickstar...h/posts/1895012

The whole team here is really excited to get the Backer Beta into your hands on June 1st. Unfortunately, in the last few weeks, we've been working through some significant multiplayer connectivity issues and as of yesterday, we don't believe multiplayer will be stable enough for release by June 1st. Therefore, the June 1st release will contain single-player Skirmish mode ONLY, and we will update the Beta with PvP multiplayer as soon as it's ready. No time estimate on that yet but we'll keep you posted.

Edit: Forgot subject matter for those who may not have pre-ordered. Sometimes I forget we aren't all the same in the know nerds!

I am happy to see we will get serious megamek-esque TT MP sort of action.

[Vellron2005]

Imperius, on 25 May 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

Battletech Game

https://www.kickstar...h/posts/1895012

The whole team here is really excited to get the Backer Beta into your hands on June 1st. Unfortunately, in the last few weeks, we've been working through some significant multiplayer connectivity issues and as of yesterday, we don't believe multiplayer will be stable enough for release by June 1st. Therefore, the June 1st release will contain single-player Skirmish mode ONLY, and we will update the Beta with PvP multiplayer as soon as it's ready. No time estimate on that yet but we'll keep you posted.

Edit: Forgot subject matter for those who may not have pre-ordered. Sometimes I forget we aren't all the same in the know nerds!

Well at least they didn't release it and then be all like "oh sorry, here's a hotfix" like some other developers do it ;-)

[Wildstreak]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yes if you compare old games to games from today, they don't hold up. Oddly they held up just fine, and for several years after, at their releases. Games never hold up in hindsight, overall. For their time, they succeeded brilliantly.

Nostalgia is fine, I do have wonderful memories of playing MW1, MW2 and MW2 Mercs.

But we do need to learn from mistakes. I did want to get DOS Box working and replay MW2 in the past few years then I discovered the video with the Pulse Laser problem and how it allowed you to instantly win matches even in SP stories. The PPC problem was obvious in both MW2 and they got avoided like a plague.

JC Daxion, on 30 May 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

Ohh ok.. I guess i got it backwards.. It's been known to happen. But thanks anyway.

I'd have to think adding MP was a big factor behind more people signing up though.

Now, let the game come out, and Kickstart a Map/story editor already!

I believe they wanted MP, knew the community wanted MP so setting it is the highest reward was incentive to get as much profit as possible. Almost looked like we would not get it, happened sometime in the last few days.

TKSax, on 31 May 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

Yep PVP was Last, Single player camping was the second level, Skirmish was the first level. They have said they will not do a map/mission editor apparently they did that for one of the shadowrun games and it became a much bigger headache than HBS has the staff to manage, so no editor, and as Mitch says over and over Focus=Quality.

Never heard of the headache part. What exactly made that?

[VanillaG]

Wildstreak, on 01 June 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Never heard of the headache part. What exactly made that?

The problem with releasing the modding tools is that it locked in some aspects of the game that needed to be changed in later versions but could not for backward compatibility reasons. Essentially they did not want to break backward compatibility with the mods so they could not incorporate any lessons learned to make the game better. My guess is that if this get 1-2 expansions you might see modding tools come out in one of those releases. It gives them enough time to incorporate feedback from the previous versions so they don't code themselves into a corner.

[Natred]

Everyone is entitiled to their opinion. Usually people who can not handle being beaten do not like multiplayer games. Anyways multiplayer or coop is what makes a game.

[Imperius]

Natred, on 01 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Everyone is entitiled to their opinion. Usually people who can not handle being beaten do not like multiplayer games. Anyways multiplayer or coop is what makes a game.

I don't like playing pvp games where you think you're in control. True skill match making was the worst thing to ever happen to multiplayer games, and any game using it doesn't understand how little fun one can have when they understand most wins / losses (with the exception of full teams) is controlled by the system. 50/50 is not "fun" knowing you're gonna lose because the game intentionally stacked the team against you.

I'd rather have a good story and cool game than some epeen hamster wheel

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 May 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

we are still getting access to Single Player on the 1st.

So, not really sure how anything is....ruined? A little hyperbolic much?


BTW for those wondering what he is talking about...latest Kickstarter Update for HBS's Battletech TBS game.

A little hyperbolic? Try a lot hyperbolic.

Imperius, on 25 May 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Yes, and because of this I missed out on the Jacket because I didn't want it to make that tier. Then it did and I should have just ordered the jacket pack but I was too late. Oh well tis life. I hope it's great because I really have been starved of lore and immersion for far too long.

I for one am ecstatic they reached the PVP tier because that was the one thing needed for any kind of lasting appeal. PVE is great, but once its done its done and there is little reason to return for a visit after the first couple times playing it. If it is really good it might be worth another go once every five to ten years but that is about it. PVP on the other hand keeps things interesting and the IP fresh in peoples minds which makes future installments more likely.

I love my jacket by the way.

[WarHippy]

Sjorpha, on 26 May 2017 - 12:05 AM, said:

I'm not backing specifically because I don't want to be tempted to play the beta, just because not spoiling any part of the campaign/story is important to me.

The beta will contain none of the campaign/story. It is strictly the PVP/PVE skirmish side of the game. They were pretty clear they didn't want to spoil any of the story which is why none of the campaign will be a part of the beta. So feel free to back it.

[kuma8877]

Imperius, on 01 June 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

I don't like playing pvp games where you think you're in control. True skill match making was the worst thing to ever happen to multiplayer games, and any game using it doesn't understand how little fun one can have when they understand most wins / losses (with the exception of full teams) is controlled by the system. 50/50 is not "fun" knowing you're gonna lose because the game intentionally stacked the team against you.

I'd rather have a good story and cool game than some epeen hamster wheel

I'm actually looking at BT MP as much more like tabletop play, like going to the local shop and playing a quick pick up game. It'll be totally different than an FPS or RTS MP environment. Heck, you can even throw your own campaigns together with your long distance friends (even without mod tools) because of MP support.

It'll have all the fun RNG of TT to shake things up from time to time too, so any meta can be wiped out with a crap dice roll, and hilarity or rage can then ensue.

[Wildstreak]

VanillaG, on 01 June 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

The problem with releasing the modding tools is that it locked in some aspects of the game that needed to be changed in later versions but could not for backward compatibility reasons. Essentially they did not want to break backward compatibility with the mods so they could not incorporate any lessons learned to make the game better. My guess is that if this get 1-2 expansions you might see modding tools come out in one of those releases. It gives them enough time to incorporate feedback from the previous versions so they don't code themselves into a corner.

Odd but I guess they could not do what other games did.

Perhaps when they reach the point of doing a last update at whatever future point with no more planned, they can release mod tools then.