22 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Arguing with a friend about artemis.


I was told that you need line of sight for artemis to work with an LRM cluster.


They tested it in the training grounds and said that the affect of artemis was on the missiles (tighter bunches) when not in line of sight.


So am I wrong? Confused?


Also, is artemis worth it? When you want to bring bigger launchers?


Just a few questions.

[GotShotALot]

Anything I've read about Artemis says it does not work on indirect fire, requires line of sight to get the benefits, and stacks with TAG and NARC (iirc).

It should be worth it (on larger launchers) if you actually use LoS and want to kill mechs, rather than spread damage.

[James The Fox Dixon]

AFAIK, Artemis requires LOS. Yes, it's worth it, but I'd rather go with smaller launchers in greater quantity. By having a large amount of LRM5s means you can chain fire them in a continuous stream that will force the enemy team to burn through their AMS ammo.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 25 May 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[Xetelian]

He or She is testing it in the training grounds and with a building blocking line of sight they are still getting the benefit from artemis they say.



Now I'm still confused because every one I've talked to has said you need LOS which made me not take artemis.

[Krauser V]

I`m the person in question who tested this.

Method tested. Timberwolf , target retention and UAV duration skills. LRM60+artemis with UAV's on River City and using the Jeagermech in upper city as a test-target.

Test 1. Launch UAV next to Jeager, move away towards high bridge (so that many buildings are in between) fire LRM's Noticing the spread of missiles goes down in a inverse triangle like funnel which is what Artemis does.

Test 2. Get to Jeager on the other side (facing lower city) target it with LOS. fire missiles. Notice the pattern (inverse triangle funnel)

Test 3. Get to Jeager on the other side (facing lower city) target him with LOS, then move to position the building he's near to be blocking my LOS. Firing missiles (targeting retention skills active here to keep the lock for a while without LOS) and notice that the missile pattern is exactly the same.

If LOS really mattered for the reduced missile spread effects of having Artemis - then it would've been apparant with having the buildings in between me, and the Jeager, especially when on the 3rd test. I didn't use the UAV to spot for me.
I repeated the above without Artemis, and noticed a different missile spread. And longer time to kill. Both with and without LOS. This is also very clear that if you fire LRM's with or without artemis, without a lock that the missile spread when they come down, is completely different.

Note: DID NOT re-test this with IS tech.

I rarely LRM anyway. As i`m a brawler. But when i do LRM, it's almost always around 400M range to have reduce travel time of my missiles and fire from second line to amplify damage of the heavy hitters. I rely mostly on my own tag, but i do fire without LoS if there's a hill in between and i`m switching position. I don't care about burning through AMS ammo with multiple small volleys but rather punching through with a large one. And again, it's always as a damage amplifier to targets already being engaged.

Edited by Krauser V, 25 May 2017 - 05:18 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

More often than not, Artemis' value isn't in the decreased spread - most LRM boats prefer to remain out of sight, lobbing shots over walls. It's the lock-on speed, which also happens to affect Streak SRMs as well.

But yes. What Artemis IV does is it drops the spread of missiles by a significant amount if you have LoS to the target. Does NOT stack with NARC; the bonuses are counted as the same. Decreases lock-on time by a significant amount, but I can't remember by exactly how much.

[James The Fox Dixon]

The UAV functions as if you have LOS. It also is due to how the damage model works and the process of the textures are applied. There are only a limited number of textures to show damage on a mech, so visually it's not a good representation. The best way to tell is how fast the paper doll's sections take damage.

[Krauser V]

James The Fox Dixon, on 25 May 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

The UAV functions as if you have LOS. It also is due to how the damage model works and the process of the textures are applied. There are only a limited number of textures to show damage on a mech, so visually it's not a good representation. The best way to tell is how fast the paper doll's sections take damage.

Yes but my 3rd test was without the UAV. The missile spread was the same.
And i always refer to the damage grid on the bottom-right, not visually on the mech's model.
Without artemis, you can clearly see the missiles impacting on just about every part of the Jeager, as opposed to focusing to at most , 2 components.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Krauser V, on 25 May 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

Yes but my 3rd test was without the UAV. The missile spread was the same.
And i always refer to the damage grid on the bottom-right, not visually on the mech's model.
Without artemis, you can clearly see the missiles impacting on just about every part of the Jeager, as opposed to focusing to at most , 2 components.

Sounds like a bug then, so I would submit a bug report.

[Siegegun]

While the tighter grouping with line of sight is great, it is the 50% shorter targeting time that makes Artemis really worth taking. It is a shame I can not take it on the Golden Boy.

[GotShotALot]

Potential problem here is that tester is in fact acquiring his own locks with LOS, then moving and firing with Target Decay. Assuming I read that correctly anyway. So that may be affecting the Artemis grouping.

Better test would be to have someone else actually do the spotting and Artemis launcher fires completely indirect.

[Xetelian]

GotShotALot, on 25 May 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

Potential problem here is that tester is in fact acquiring his own locks with LOS, then moving and firing with Target Decay. Assuming I read that correctly anyway. So that may be affecting the Artemis grouping.

Better test would be to have someone else actually do the spotting and Artemis launcher fires completely indirect.

That makes a lot of sense, I don't have premium time running or I'd volunteer to join in a test.

[Andi Nagasia]

First off Artimis and Targeting Computers arnt calculated in the Mech Lab,
not onto LRMs, for how Targeting works, you have to be looking at the the target at the moment of impact,
you can have the target in your full sight the whole time, but if they duck into cover a second before the missiles hit,
they will have normal spread, the same is true for Tag(although Tag lasts 1second) which is a bummer for Artimis,
if you fire your missiles and Break LOS after they leave the Tubes you will see their spread it just LRM20 Spread,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 25 May 2017 - 04:02 PM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Been asking similar questions for some time https://mwomercs.com...-c-tag-details/

So basically if you have target visual, fire Artemis LRM, while LRM's are in the air you lose vision of target but before they hit you regain vision and keep it while LRM's hit target, do you get Artemis spread bonus? Same question for TAG.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 25 May 2017 - 04:08 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

G4LV4TR0N, on 25 May 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Been asking similar questions for some time https://mwomercs.com...-c-tag-details/

So basically if you have target visual, fire Artemis LRM, while LRM's are in the air you lose vision of target but before they hit you regain vision and keep it while LRM's hit target, do you get Artemis spread bonus? Same question for TAG.

Correct see above, all you have to do to get the bonuses is have lock and LOS when they hit,
if you take Artimis i would suggest taking tag, as the a Tagged mech will show as Tagged and you get both bonuses,
Artimis doesnt have a visual identifier so its hard to tell if you have the Bonus, Tag needs LOS so take Tag to get both,

[Chados]

Artemis is a must as far as I'm concerned. It tightens spread and cuts lock time, and that alone is worth the extra tonnage. Especially for LRM15s, which are the launcher I like best.

[SQW]

I've always found Artemis to be pretty useless on LRMs. 1t extra weight and 1 extra crit slot in exchange for just quicker lock-on time? Majority of the time, LRM boats will not have visual on their target either due to map choice, positioning or enemy moving to break LOS. Finally, the fact that NARC negate Artemis bonus (I run a narc RVN-3L) means SRM6 is about the only thing Artemis is good for for its weight.

Seriously, a lot of people on LRM thread will swear up and down that they can't spare the 1t to mount an AMS yet will happily dump 3-4 extra tons on Artemis LRMs while still spending most of the match without LOS.

As for the OP's questions: Artemis gives shorter lock-on time but need LOS on point of impact to benefit from smaller clustering. Its bonuses stack with BAP and TAG but NOT narc (eg, hitting a narced mech in LOS using Artemis is the same as shooting at it with regular LRM).

[Andi Nagasia]

SQW, on 25 May 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

As for the OP's questions: Artemis gives shorter lock-on time but need LOS on point of impact to benefit from smaller clustering. Its bonuses stack with BAP and TAG but NOT narc (eg, hitting a narced mech in LOS using Artemis is the same as shooting at it with regular LRM).

yes and no, Narc and Artimis dont stack, but they do preform simularly,
if a mech is Narc'ed and you have Artimis and hit them with your missiles you dont gain the Artimis bonuses,
but you still gain all the Narc Bonuses, so they dont stack but they also dont cancel each other out,

not 100% on Spread Stats, sorry
Narc = -30% Spread,
Artimis(LOS) = -30% Spread,
Tag(LOS) = -20% Spread,

Tag(LOS) + Narc = -50% Spread,
Tag(LOS) + Artimis(LOS) = -50% Spread,
Tag(LOS) + Narc + Artimis(LOS) = -50% Spread,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 25 May 2017 - 09:35 PM.

[Lucky Noob]

i only can say, Artemis + Tag is insane good.

Most of your Missles will hit the CT Killing Mechs in Seconds

[Xetelian]

Chados, on 25 May 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Artemis is a must as far as I'm concerned. It tightens spread and cuts lock time, and that alone is worth the extra tonnage. Especially for LRM15s, which are the launcher I like best.

I don't mind a second longer target time, I also don't mind a little more spread as long as I can fit 2400+ ammo and rain it all down on them.


I'm a believer in quantity over quality in this case.