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Lets Talk: Tibbers, Quirks, And Nega-Quirks

Balance

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#1 The6thMessenger

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:47 PM

Lets talk, Tibbers, Quirks, and Nega-Quirks.

By Tibbers, I mean Timber-Wolf.

With the dawn of the engine Desync it's a bit more clumsy than we used to feel it, along with other mechs since engine desync is felt globally. Tibbers, is even less agile than the marauder.

View PostWingbreaker, on 21 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Posted Image

Posted Image




And then there's the quirks, and nega-quirks. The TBR-A Right Torso gives acceleration and deceleration bonus, however the TBR-A Left Torso somewhat nullifies that, and still net -5% reverse speed. The TBR-S Torsi adds up at a nasty amount of negative quirks too.

The kicker too is that, much of those negative quirks are solved by the 8/8 bonuses, but isn't it more likely to switch out omnipods for their hard-points, and other things like the Jump-Jets?

TBR-S has a single jump-jet on the CT, so we usually swap out the torsi to free up 4 more tons and more slots.

TBR-S Right Torso also has jump-jets, and can be easily equipped TBR-A, TBR-C, or TBR-D CT, so we have JJ and still have cockpit level energy hardpoints -- perfect for laser vomit builds.

Lets compare values:

The old Tibbers go by 95 deg/s torso turn rate, now it goes 81.08 deg/s. -10% of turn rate as it was before is -9.5, and net 85.5 deg/s turn rate. Now with 81.08 deg/s, -10% is a horrid 72.972 deg/s. A +10% turn rate is still at 89.188 deg/s, it's still not up to it's former glory, nor enough to match that of the marauder.

What I am getting at here is that, are the red scary numbers even relevant anymore? TBR is less agile already, does it even need those confounding quirks anymore? Because with how TBR is less agile already, something like the TBR-A LT is already a turn-off.

So, what do you think? Could TBR stand to lose those negative quirks -- and positive quirks meant to balance it all out?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 May 2017 - 03:50 PM.


#2 El Bandito

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

Yeah, at this stage negative quirks should be removed from the Timbie. Power creep had sailed past it long time ago.

#3 Deathlike

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:35 PM

I'm using it to poptart.

Functions fine even if suboptimal in some ways (Night Gyrs have to expose themselves to shoot dual Gauss from their arms too).

I don't care if you buff the Timberwolf's agility AND keep its negaquirks OR just remove the negaquirks straight up (DO NOT DO BOTH MR. BALANCE OVERLORD).

Edited by Deathlike, 22 May 2017 - 04:36 PM.


#4 fat4eyes

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:02 PM

You'd have to pay more attention to the full set bonuses now. The TBR-S and the TBR-A still get a net yaw speed bonus if you have the full set. I'm actually thinking of buying a new TBR-A just for this reason.

#5 The6thMessenger

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:06 PM

View Postfat4eyes, on 22 May 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

You'd have to pay more attention to the full set bonuses now. The TBR-S and the TBR-A still get a net yaw speed bonus if you have the full set. I'm actually thinking of buying a new TBR-A just for this reason.


Sure, but then it's not pretty being stuck at a single set. Isn't that the perk of omnipods is to swap omnipods? That means you won't have JJs if you opt for the 8/8 on the TBR-A.

#6 Gyrok

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:41 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 22 May 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

I'm using it to poptart.

Functions fine even if suboptimal in some ways (Night Gyrs have to expose themselves to shoot dual Gauss from their arms too).

I don't care if you buff the Timberwolf's agility AND keep its negaquirks OR just remove the negaquirks straight up (DO NOT DO BOTH MR. BALANCE OVERLORD).


I would prefer to buff the agility outright....it is too slow really across the board.

#7 Luminis

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:28 PM

I'll be the first to agree that the Timby could stand to lose its negative quirks, especially since the A-LT makes it so easy to disarm it. Its engine doesn't provide OP agility anymore, anyway.

That said, I'd also say that there's a good number of 'Mechs in more desperate need of help. The Timby might not be a Tier1 'Mech any more, but then again... Does it have to be?

#8 DGTLDaemon

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:45 PM

Yeah, the mobility penalty on TBR-A LT made sense back when the mech itself was rather agile. Now it's simply killing the builds that require the TBR-A LT to function, but aren't running a full set of TBR-A omnipods.

#9 Gyrok

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

View PostLuminis, on 23 May 2017 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'll be the first to agree that the Timby could stand to lose its negative quirks, especially since the A-LT makes it so easy to disarm it. Its engine doesn't provide OP agility anymore, anyway.

That said, I'd also say that there's a good number of 'Mechs in more desperate need of help. The Timby might not be a Tier1 'Mech any more, but then again... Does it have to be?



Clans need at least 1 tier 1 mech...since the rest are all IS right now...give us something.

#10 Y E O N N E

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 07:42 PM

View PostGyrok, on 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:



Clans need at least 1 tier 1 mech...since the rest are all IS right now...give us something.


wat

just...wat.

#11 Ultimax

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:01 PM

TBR negative quirks need to go, it makes no sense at all for these to still be here.

The meta shifted long ago, and the TBR's new base agility was already cut down quite a bit - it certainly doesn't need negative quirks on top of that for using its few, often build critical, omnipods.

Edited by Ultimax, 24 May 2017 - 08:02 PM.


#12 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:03 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 24 May 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:


wat

just...wat.

Its Gyrok, dude.
Just let it go.

#13 Ultimax

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:06 PM

View PostGyrok, on 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Clans need at least 1 tier 1 mech...since the rest are all IS right now...give us something.


Do you mean Clan Wolf needs one for RP purposes? Because Jade Falcon clearly has a weight class defining T1 Heavy mech. Posted Image

Edited by Ultimax, 24 May 2017 - 08:06 PM.


#14 Trenchbird

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:59 PM

Shhhh, we don't want it to come back.

Otherwise it will doom this thread for good.

#15 Luminis

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:12 AM

View PostGyrok, on 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:



Clans need at least 1 tier 1 mech...since the rest are all IS right now...give us something.

Err, what?
I'd say that the Night Gyr, Hunchback IIC and Arctic Cheetah are easily Tier 1 in their respective weight classes. Maybe not the outright best 'Mechs, but definitely not Tier 2 material. Dunno about assaults, because Battlemasters are damn scary and I'm not feeling 100 tonners (read: Kodiak) at the moment. The MAD-IIC might be a competitor, can't say for sure.

#16 The6thMessenger

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:45 AM

View PostLuminis, on 25 May 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

Err, what?
I'd say that the Night Gyr, Hunchback IIC and Arctic Cheetah are easily Tier 1 in their respective weight classes. Maybe not the outright best 'Mechs, but definitely not Tier 2 material. Dunno about assaults, because Battlemasters are damn scary and I'm not feeling 100 tonners (read: Kodiak) at the moment. The MAD-IIC might be a competitor, can't say for sure.


MAD-IIC might be only an 85 tonner, but as a battlemech you can fine tune it, and if that's not enough you can have XL400 that gives it 81 - 87 kph, and NOT DIE on a single lost torso. The hitboxes also allows it to spread damage quite well. And then there's clan-tech that brings it all together -- the same clan-tech with long-range lasers.

Only at 85 tons, it's a reasonable menace that would fit the dropdeck better than the 100 tonner kodiak. Obsoleted warhawk too.

I'd say it's pretty tier-1 and competitive.

I really did well with Laser Vomit MAD-IIC, Dakka Vomit MAD-IIC-C also works well. Gauss Vomit MAD-IIC-C is pretty ok to me.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 May 2017 - 05:02 AM.


#17 R Valentine

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:32 AM

The TimberWolf should have been unnerfed a long time ago. They nerfed the Timber Wolf when the Kodiak was OP, because that made sense. Now the Night Gyr is OP so... I guess nerf the Timber Wolf again? Isn't that how it works? No really, just unnerf the poor thing. It already takes 100m just to stop without the nega-quirks.

#18 cazidin

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:34 AM

...You people do realize that PGI is far more likely to simply nerf the Night Gyr to "balance" things than they are to buff the Timber Wolf, right?

#19 Luminis

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:56 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 25 May 2017 - 04:45 AM, said:


MAD-IIC might be only an 85 tonner, but as a battlemech you can fine tune it, and if that's not enough you can have XL400 that gives it 81 - 87 kph, and NOT DIE on a single lost torso. The hitboxes also allows it to spread damage quite well. And then there's clan-tech that brings it all together -- the same clan-tech with long-range lasers.

Only at 85 tons, it's a reasonable menace that would fit the dropdeck better than the 100 tonner kodiak. Obsoleted warhawk too.

I'd say it's pretty tier-1 and competitive.

I really did well with Laser Vomit MAD-IIC, Dakka Vomit MAD-IIC-C also works well. Gauss Vomit MAD-IIC-C is pretty ok to me.


Oh, I absolutely love my MAD-IIC. Ran mine with 2LPL and 5MPL with a 375 engine for a good while. Started out with a build pretty much exactly like yours and am currently using the 9MPL build that's on Metamechs for the lulz. The A variant is a monster, though. I run mine with three UAC5 and two PPCs. They're fantastic, imho, I just don't have the experience with u the Battlemaster to make a valid comparison ;)

#20 Gyrok

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

View PostUltimax, on 24 May 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:


Do you mean Clan Wolf needs one for RP purposes? Because Jade Falcon clearly has a weight class defining T1 Heavy mech. Posted Image


There is nothing wrong with having a light assault *and* a heavy mech in T1 for clans...

The NTG is really a pocket assault more than an actual heavy mech in terms of how it plays.

EDIT: Besides, the BLR is still more agile than both despite having 10 tons advantage and absurdly strong armor quirks.

Edited by Gyrok, 25 May 2017 - 12:36 PM.






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