425 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

CW/FP in MWO has always been very un-balanced as far as player skill After 5 years of playing SOLO and Faction Play you have to break it down as follows for the majority of matches.

PUG VS PUG matches in FP is almost 50/50

2man-4 man Vs 2 man-4 man groups usually are balanced it usually results in good fun game play regardless of tears of skill level.

Pugs Vs 2man-4 man groups usually balanced 40/60 in favor of small groups regardless of tier level or skills.

2man-4man groups VS 10-12 man groups usually balanced 30/70 in favor of 10-12 man groups regardless of tier level or skills

Pugs Vs 10-12 man groups usually balance 10/90 regardless of tier or skill level.

If you take any unit group size 4man-12man and give them there own comp queues for FP it would in fact be better game play for 90 % of FP and MWO players wishing to play and experience FP in general.

Those 90% of MWO player wishing to only play at max a 2man in each group side would have more balanced FP games regardless of tier or skills and enjoy the FP game much more than they do now as the wait times for non group players can reach up to 30 min+.

So I would suggest for this games last hope of a decent fun FP game mode for all players in MWO just allow 2 man groups and pugs in one FP mm queues and 4 man-12 man groups in the other FP queues.

Edited by KingCobra, 06 June 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

CW/FP in MWO has always been very un-balanced as far as player skill After 5 years of playing SOLO and Faction Play you have to break it down as follows for the majority of matches.

PUG VS PUG matches in FP is almost 50/50

You are basing this on what facts/evidence? You have barely played a match in 12 months, so it's not based on actual in-game experience. I'd love to see the stats that back you up, alas like usual, we probably won't get any actual proof.

The PUG v PUG matches I have been in are still usually dominated by one side. Why? Because all it takes is 1-3 good players on one PUG side to utterly decimate the other side in less than 10mins and have them 2 waves down/hiding in their drop zone.

I cannot recall the last time I lost a PUG v PUG match when dropping solo. Been at least 6 months.

The only losses I've really suffered (over 1,000+ games of real in-game experience) are against other 12 mans, which are good fights.

[KingCobra]

justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

You are basing this on what facts/evidence? You have barely played a match in 12 months, so it's not based on actual in-game experience. I'd love to see the stats that back you up, alas like usual, we probably won't get any actual proof.

The PUG v PUG matches I have been in are still usually dominated by one side. Why? Because all it takes is 1-3 good players on one PUG side to utterly decimate the other side in less than 10mins and have them 2 waves down/hiding in their drop zone.

I cannot recall the last time I lost a PUG v PUG match when dropping solo. Been at least 6 months.

The only losses I've really suffered (over 1,000+ games of real in-game experience) are against other 12 mans, which are good fights.

I play MWO 4-5 days a week solo and FP in groups and FP solo drops so I really don't know where you get your stats?
IN my personal experience it is what I stated keeping a journal of matches played for almost 5 years on this account and my main and what im stating is my experiences in MWO and FP in general.

There are other players I assume that have had the same conclusions as I as to why FP and MWO has lost 90% of its player base in 5 years lets work to fix MWO and FP for everyone not just PUGS/casuals/solo/new players but units as well you must admit that the current FP battle system is a failure and needs reworked.

[justcallme A S H]

Last season under your account you post on you did not have enough games to even hit the leader board (IE, 10).

So either tell us your main account you 'apparently' use, or we will continue to operate as normal. And thst is just disregard anything you say because you can never back it up with any fact/evidence. Which BTW, is becoming pretty boring.

MWO has not lost 90% of its sure base. Lol. Another factually ridiculous claim.
Where do you get thst fanciful number from? Please once again, cite actual sources

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 June 2017 - 08:22 PM.

[KingCobra]

justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

Last season under your account you post on you did not have enough games to even hit the leader board (IE, 10).

So either tell us your main account you 'apparently' use, or we will continue to operate as normal. And thst is just disregard anything you say because you can never back it up with any fact/evidence. Which BTW, is becoming pretty boring.

MWO has not lost 90% of its sure bade either.

Where do you get thst fanciful number from. Please once again, cite actual sources

Are you going to personally attack me again?

It would seem anyone who does not share your views or your forum groups views is attacked with terrible comments about any topic they post in? So I would ask you stop referring to a biased opinion on anyone who disagrees with you or your forum group.

You seem like a angry person ? unwilling to work with anyone to resolve any MWO related problems.

[Cato Zilks]

No, Ash has a point. If you claim numbers, cite them. Put up or shut up.

[iLLcapitan]

Cato Zilks, on 06 June 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

No, Ash has a point. If you claim numbers, cite them. Put up or shut up.

Exactly.

Also, the people who dont actually play FP are usually the biggest doomsayers (and the ones with the worst ideas of 'fixing' it)

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Are you going to personally attack me again?

It would seem anyone who does not share your views or your forum groups views is attacked with terrible comments about any topic they post in? So I would ask you stop referring to a biased opinion on anyone who disagrees with you or your forum group.

Personally attack you? Do you even know what that means?

I asked you to prove where your claims came from. That is not a personal attack, that is simply asking for some evidence to verify/back up your claim.

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

MWO has lost 90% of its player base in 5 years

Wrong.
Incorrect.
False.

Tarogato's user stat numbers puts the average users in Seasons 1-4 (since Leaderboard) @ ~55,000 - 60,000.

EVIDENCE and further information

Currently there is around 30,000 - 35,000 in the last 3-4 seasons leaderboards from memory. (I can find Taro's numbers if you really want? But my point is about to be proven).

You are claiming that 90% of users have left MWO. That would mean MWO would need to have had approx 400,000 - 500,000 active users in it's "peak". Where is the proof?

I look forward to you providing the evidence we all require to actually start believing any of the numbers you claim around here.

Evidence & facts please. No more heresay, please.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 June 2017 - 10:20 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Tch, it's like no one remembers why the pre-made 12 man queue was abandoned.

Do you want to be the team that is all on coms, all in the cheesiest mech of the day, practice in private every weekend and still get curb stomped in every game?

No one wants to be those guys, but someone always is. If those people aren't pugs then those people will soon be you.

[Insanity09]

Since there seems to be some confusion on the point

I DO NOT WANT A TIER BASED QUEUE SPLIT.

I have been trying to understand what seemed to be unfounded and nonsensical fears that could (I suppose) have resulted if, big if, a tier based queue split were implemented.
I was trying to point out why I felt such worries were unreasonable. At no point did I ever personally suggest tier based FW queues were a decent plan, I thought had posted that exact sentiment each time.

However...
I continue to believe that something needs to be done to bring FW population numbers up, and making it more universally player friendly, rather than more elitist, seems to be a good direction to head.

[50 50]

mycroft000, on 06 June 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

The "Hard Mode" idea was discussed, but PGI has yet to attempt to use it in any way.

I remember that suggestion but have a feeling that wouldn't work.
It's just another layer of player separation and therefore heavily reliant on having not only enough players in the opposing faction to get a match, but that enough of them have also selected 'hard mode'.
My understanding was that it would take those players out of the queue and pit them against each other... effectively creating another queue.
The big problem here? It doesn't allow for the smallest denomination, the entire mode doesn't.
It would be easier to organise a 'Faction Match' in the Private Lobby where we can actually start a match with less than 12 players.

Any reliance on a match maker immediately puts road blocks and limitations in place that will set it up for frustrating wait times as soon as we don't have the right combination to 'unlock' a match.

So.... dispense with the whole idea of a match maker and having these limitations and provide the visibility and option to pick how many we want to commit to any fight against an opposition that we know what to expect. Allow us or our opposition to withdraw from that battle if it is not winnable or what we ourselves might consider a fair fight. Who knows, maybe that could allow for diversionary tactics on different planets.

[naterist]

justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Personally attack you? Do you even know what that means?

I asked you to prove where your claims came from. That is not a personal attack, that is simply asking for some evidence to verify/back up your claim.



Wrong.
Incorrect.
False.

Tarogato's user stat numbers puts the average users in Seasons 1-4 (since Leaderboard) @ ~55,000 - 60,000.

EVIDENCE and further information

Currently there is around 30,000 - 35,000 in the last 3-4 seasons leaderboards from memory. (I can find Taro's numbers if you really want? But my point is about to be proven).

You are claiming that 90% of users have left MWO. That would mean MWO would need to have had approx 400,000 - 500,000 active users in it's "peak". Where is the proof?

I look forward to you providing the evidence we all require to actually start believing any of the numbers you claim around here.

Evidence & facts please. No more heresay, please.

Thats a terrible misrepresentation of numbers. Both of those are numbers taken from total pop at time X and Y. It does not account for which players were counted in both, which which players left before the second census, which ones joined before the second census, and how many joined and left between times X and Y without ever being counted.

For a guy who places so much emphasis on good data as a refrence point, you really dont use qualitative numbers for your arguements, do you?

[Simulacrum]

Scout Derek, on 27 May 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

You see this? This is the result when you combine two premades that are really good against below average pugs.
[..
- You must be Tier 2 at least ( I know I know, this sounds redundant as far as tiers matching up players of similar skill, but this is to prevent those who are still in tier 4 and 5 from entering Faction Play and getting wrecked hard)
[..]
I feel like that with the start of this idea, we can prevent crap like this from happening. What say you?

Yeah this is the result of two bigger units versus random pilots, as it is a normal result of "Polar Highlands" Clan vs. IS.
Your mistake is to see the random pilots as the source of lesser fun. As others wrote MWO needs those random pilots, in fact we need every single player to be loyal to this game. If you restrict the game and free pilots (or pilots of smaller units) you kill the game.

You should consider changing the point of view. CW does not need restrictions for single players it needs new rules which are contemporary. CW is a great game mode with, theoretically, a lot of fun, till we've a constellation of big units against random players. It would be wise for PGI to split the CW for bigger units and keep it as it is for the majority of the players. So you could chose what type of CW you want to play, "unit CW" and something like "quick CW". QCW would be restricted to "max 4 pilots of one unit", as UCW would be restricted to "min 4 pilots of one unit". Additionally bigger units should get a lobby (e.g. "hall of war") where they could meet, declare war against each other or just call out a challenge to other bigger units, entering the hall of war.
Sure you might say "this is a team game and its all about well organized units" but reality is we do not have enough pilots for this and most ppl are playing casual, sole or in smaller units with some friends. Dont try to change the game for the minority, have an eye on the majority and keep them happy.

[justcallme A S H]

naterist, on 07 June 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

Thats a terrible misrepresentation of numbers. Both of those are numbers taken from total pop at time X and Y. It does not account for which players were counted in both, which which players left before the second census, which ones joined before the second census, and how many joined and left between times X and Y without ever being counted.

For a guy who places so much emphasis on good data as a refrence point, you really dont use qualitative numbers for your arguements, do you?

Knew it wouldn't take long for the naysayers to arrive!

Are they perfect? No.
Are they all we have? Yes.
Are they reasonably accurate? Yes.

I'm sure if I asked Tarogato to go over it and overlay unique identifiers (users names) the attrition rate you are insinuating that is being missed will show up the fact it's not. This is a niche title that to get anywhere, requires serous cash investment.

Anyway some numbers, the only ones we have, are FAR better than some absolutely farcical claims without a shred of evidence to back it up. Not once has this "HALF A MILLION" user loss been able to be backed up with any hard evidence. Just claims from one source that claims plenty and proves, zero.

[godmonkey]

Oh Christ here we go again.

Look this topic pops up in any game where there is a factionplay format. The WoT forums were filled to the brin with salt after CW events before they changed a few metrics so that a couple of randoms can score the prize tank with a hideous amount of hard work. In the end it always boils down to skill. Thefact is that good players like to play with other good players and thus they dominate any FP play format as they are mostly more dedicated, co-ordinated and in the case of MWO they use good builds and solid tactics.

NO matter how you boil it down the good players and units will still wipe the floor with the larpers playing with a joystick and running a 3025 stock mech. Should we cater "end game content" for that crowd. Absolutely not. Can they play the pokemech they want? Surething, bud but don't expect to do much winning.

There is no way to compensate for this in a game mode with no matchmaker, even if they would get 96 mechs to drop with that would not change anything and only make the game run longer and they less well performing players would still be swept under the rug.

I understand the frustration of the players that get stomped, but really if you refuse to get with the program what in the end are you really expecting? Why the jealousy for the good players and units? Emulate them, copy tactics and do better in every game compared to the last. Most good units got good by wanting to be good and doing something about it. It feels like the "wronged" players here only want to win without putting in any real effort and as long as there are players out there willing to put in some serious hours that will not happen.

Regarding MWO dying we can safely assume that it is not. Especially after the skill tree i have seen bucketloads of players i have never heard of in T1. Group que is another matter however, usually the same faces that get shot at there.

[MustrumRidcully]

If there was some Tier Grouping or Group vs Solo Player matchmaking, maybe the mach-maker would need a few more degrees of freedom. Say, also allow some 4v4, 8v8 and 12v12 games to launch. Or also allow mixed faction games (Civil War is coming, so that would provide an excuse to break with the traditional faction conflict lines. And mixed faction games would also lower the pressure of faction population and faction technology balance, if ther eis an equal amount of IS and Clan players on each side.)

[godmonkey]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 June 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

If there was some Tier Grouping or Group vs Solo Player matchmaking, maybe the mach-maker would need a few more degrees of freedom. Say, also allow some 4v4, 8v8 and 12v12 games to launch. Or also allow mixed faction games (Civil War is coming, so that would provide an excuse to break with the traditional faction conflict lines. And mixed faction games would also lower the pressure of faction population and faction technology balance, if ther eis an equal amount of IS and Clan players on each side.)

wouldn't really change anything, the bad players would still get stomped as i know that there are a bunch of FW players that are very good and some of them almost exclusively drop solo. Baddies get farmed in any case.

as for 8vs8 or 4vs4 we have those. 4v4 is scouting mode (did you really think you could drop an assault in 4v4?)

and the ranked 8v8 mode is coming up.

please just realize that FP is not ment to have a fair matchmaker. Because the game mode isn't ment to be fair. I enjoy fighting the tough opponents more then to stomp pugs but as long as the pop in FP is low no meaningful changes can be done to the matchmaker.

[KingCobra]

godmonkey, on 07 June 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

wouldn't really change anything, the bad players would still get stomped as i know that there are a bunch of FW players that are very good and some of them almost exclusively drop solo. Baddies get farmed in any case.

as for 8vs8 or 4vs4 we have those. 4v4 is scouting mode (did you really think you could drop an assault in 4v4?)

and the ranked 8v8 mode is coming up.

please just realize that FP is not ment to have a fair matchmaker. Because the game mode isn't ment to be fair. I enjoy fighting the tough opponents more then to stomp pugs but as long as the pop in FP is low no meaningful changes can be done to the matchmaker.

A matchmaker in FP is a total waist of time what would work is allow just 2man groups to drop with pugs/solo/casual players as it is now.

Then take any group larger than a 2man and put them in that bucket to drop together 4man-12man as it is now and call it good.I would assume after a few months the population of FP would start to gain some ground I personally think this idea would be the best suggestion to fix FP for good.

Then if PGI ever get around to building a new social lobby system like the old MSN gamming zone was for player to use and units to recruit from this game might just be at a turning point to rebound from the last 5 years of marketing and new player retention failures.
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justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Personally attack you? Do you even know what that means?

I asked you to prove where your claims came from. That is not a personal attack, that is simply asking for some evidence to verify/back up your claim.



Wrong.
Incorrect.
False.

Tarogato's user stat numbers puts the average users in Seasons 1-4 (since Leaderboard) @ ~55,000 - 60,000.

EVIDENCE and further information

Currently there is around 30,000 - 35,000 in the last 3-4 seasons leaderboards from memory. (I can find Taro's numbers if you really want? But my point is about to be proven).

You are claiming that 90% of users have left MWO. That would mean MWO would need to have had approx 400,000 - 500,000 active users in it's "peak". Where is the proof?

I look forward to you providing the evidence we all require to actually start believing any of the numbers you claim around here.

Evidence & facts please. No more heresay, please.

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Back when this game started the first 3 months we had over a million active users with registered accounts.
We had over 500,000 + active players dropping in MWO up until the end of closed beta.

The evidence to this is in the Archives section in posts if you care to find them so in fact based on that and the steam charts as a basic reference we have lost 90% of what the player base of MWO was over a 5 year period.

Calculate our player base using the steam chart x10 for actual MWO player numbers current.

Last 30 Days 1,091.7 -19.1 -1.72% 2,103 May 2017 1,110.8 +167.4 +17.74% 2,103 April 2017 943.5 +11.5 +1.23% 1,733 March 2017 932.0 -75.5 -7.49% 1,863 February 2017 1,007.5 -53.2 -5.02% 1,784 January 2017 1,060.7 +20.2 +1.94% 1,855 December 2016 1,040.5 +58.6 +5.97% 1,821 November 2016 981.9 -128.3 -11.55% 1,843 October 2016 1,110.2 +49.6 +4.68% 1,848 September 2016 1,060.6 +17.3 +1.65% 1,859 August 2016 1,043.3 -2.2 -0.21% 2,116 July 2016 1,045.5 +95.2 +10.01% 1,848 June 2016 950.3 -223.9 -19.07% 1,850 May 2016 1,174.2 -98.4 -7.73% 2,462 April 2016 1,272.6 -177.9 -12.26% 2,420 March 2016 1,450.5 -234.6 -13.92% 2,689 February 2016 1,685.1 -579.4 -25.59% 2,993 January 2016 2,264.5 +134.1 +6.29% 3,828 December 2015 2,130.4 - - 4,111

Edited by KingCobra, 07 June 2017 - 06:45 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

The premise that...

MWO population = (Steam Users x 10)

Is plain and simply wrong.

Tarogato's last month or 2 months ago stats were ~30-35k users. Steam is showing 1,900 last month or so.
1,900 x 10 = 19,000 = incorrect population especially when 17,000 alone were in TUK3


I'll give you one thing - Your numbers are consistent, in that, they are consistently wayward.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 07 June 2017 - 06:55 AM.

[KingCobra]

justcallme A S H, on 07 June 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

The premise that...

MWO population = (Steam Users x 10)

Is plain and simply wrong.

Tarogato's last month or 2 months ago stats were ~30-35k users. Steam is showing 1,900 last month or so.
1,900 x 10 = 19,000 = incorrect population especially when 17,000 alone were in TUK3


I'll give you one thing - Your numbers are consistent, in that, they are consistently wayward.

It really boils down to a few thousand players one way or the other based off the steam charts leader boards ETC.

Based on anyones numbers it still shows we have lost over 400,000 active players in 5 years which are
devastating player losses to any game MWO needs a rebirth PGI this last 6 months has done some very good things but it is not bringing back all those pre beta players that are now playing WOT/WOS/WarThunder/ECT. games.

A new approach to new player retention Social interaction marketing and funding need to be found not bickering over a few thousand player numbers.
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Crockdaddy, on 07 June 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Looks like Ash is making a better attempt than the other douche nozzle. Tarogato stats might be flawed ... I don't know but it's better than the utter hearsay the other guy is postering about. Not to mention the other guy doesn't even play the game mode he is whining about. I'd listen to you first Naterist over the Cobra dude simply because I know you play ... even if I often fundamentally disagree with you. I know you at least suck it up and actually play the game.

I happen to love / enjoy playing solo FP matches. Most matches I have been in have been mostly balanced. A few times I've been stomped ... but the same was with a group of NS guys. We run into a well oiled machine and they get the upper hand the match snowballs fast. The maps simply are not really geared towards adding some mid-game rebalancing mechanic much like BF1 has in it.

Maybe that would be a great idea ... in BF1 if another team gets way up on you ... your team gets a MEGA unit like a dreadnought / train ... which helps bring the game closer yet rarely changes the actual outcome but sure makes the losing team not feel so "run over".

DUDE thanks for the personal attack I do play MWO 5 days a week for 2-5 hours a night solo/groups you like all others on this forum can choose to believe what you like in topics and posts and reply to them the way you perceive the game to be attacking me personally will not stop my choice to voice my opinions on MWO and FP or any other topic people place here.