17 replies to this topic

[Kraita]

Hi

I was just wondering about other peoples feelings on the subject of meta-game or how I like to think of it the death of originality and free thought. That's probably a little harsh but I have played a number of games now where there is an enforced structure placed on top of a game by the players. Where you must play certain roles in set positions or get harnessed by other players if you try something different. League of Legends is a good example where hero types are forced to play in one lane and one lane only.

I'm hoping that MWO uses the roles in a more fluid way leaving more room for experimentation and tactical opportunities and I was wonder how other people feel about this? If it should be free flowing or have a more rigid role structure?

Edited by Kraita, 22 July 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[Vandralys Kezia]

Wow, did you choose the smallest font size?

[Bluescuba]

I do not see how MWO compares with the likes of LOL; it seems more like arma as there are several factors will effect the game (wheather terran etc), that procludes the stardardisation of the meta game idiology.

[LittleGrim]

Kraita, on 22 July 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

Hi

I was just wondering about other peoples feelings on the subject of meta-game or how I like to think of it the death of originality and free thought. That's probably a little harsh but I have played a number of games now where there is an enforced structure placed on top of a game by the players. Where you must play certain roles in set positions or get harnessed by other players if you try something different. League of Legends is a good example where hero types are forced to play in one lane and one lane only.

I'm hoping that MWO uses the roles in a more fluid way leaving more room for experimentation and tactical opportunities and I was wonder how other people feel about this? If it should be free flowing or have a more rigid role structure?

Made it bigger so you don't break people's eyes.

[Insidious Johnson]

Bluescuba, on 22 July 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

I do not see how MWO compares with the likes of LOL; it seems more like arma as there are several factors will effect the game (wheather terran etc), that procludes the stardardisation of the meta game idiology.

Nevertheless, the attempted comparison of apples and @sshats was entertaining, in addition to the font small enough for insects to read.

[Kraita]

Yes well I didn't mean to make the font that small fixed it now. I wasn't comparing the games just using it to explain a concept of players enforcing you to only play roles one way and one way only.

[Stray Ion]

People will always complain when people don't play their way, oh well. The game hasn't even launched yet and there have more threads than I can count about how the game should be changed to suit their playstyle.

As with other games, I will let them complain and ignore it. I like unique setups and am a team player. Not to be a hypocrite, I just hope MWO isn't full of people too scared to be destroyed and run away when ever danger is around; what a great way to support your team.

[Willpower]

Kraita, on 22 July 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

..... a concept of players enforcing you to only play roles one way and one way only.

We're not even in Open beta yet, how would anyone know the answer to this question?

Anyway, unless you join a group/faction/team/unit/whatever, and they pigeonhole you, then no one is going to be able to force you to do anything. Not that kind of game.

[ScientificMethod]

Well there are just some things that will work and some things that won't. If you want to take an LRM boat onto the front lines no one will stop you. But it's also going to be far from effective. I'm sure there will be plenty of room for experimenting and tactics as long as you pay attention to the drawbacks each role has.

[Freakiie]

ScientificMethod, on 22 July 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Well there are just some things that will work and some things that won't. If you want to take an LRM boat onto the front lines no one will stop you. But it's also going to be far from effective. I'm sure there will be plenty of room for experimenting and tactics as long as you pay attention to the drawbacks each role has.

Exactly. There will always be certain concepts that are proven and known to work. You're not gonna go into the decisive battle over one off the most important planets and go around experimenting. There will obviously be enough chances to experiment in other matches, but when it's needed people also need to do EXACTLY as they're being told. That's part off what being a soldier is and it's how the army works.

Don't like it, then don't play at that level. It just turns into a "I'm kewl cuz I'm rebelling and stuffz, so screw you and your orders!!" Sorry but with such an attitude you're not even going to get into a top clan, so you don't even have to worry about playing "at the top". A top corps will have somebody going through tactics and if you don't want to listen to him you're out pretty darn fast. Remember he's the tactician for a reason and you're just a grunt for a reason. Simple as that.

[Stray Ion]

Freakiie, on 22 July 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

There will obviously be enough chances to experiment in other matches, but when it's needed people also need to do EXACTLY as they're being told. That's part off what being a soldier is and it's how the army works.

Hurry up and run to a location, just to stand around and wait for a couple hours. (don't take it personally)

In other games I will followed commands, if the person issueing the commands knew what they were doing. From reading the forums I gather that there are a lot of ex-military and current millitary personal into MWO, which IMO is a good thing because they know tactics.

I'm the type of person you can tell what to do, but not how to do it. People have to realize this is a game and not everyone wants to play military style, but those who do might have an advantage when playing together.

I am the type of player who likes to play with people who know their roles and support their team. Most people see it as a bunch of lone wolves, but in actuallity it is a bunch of people who can think on their feet and very few commands are issued. To each their own I guess.

[Redshift2k5]

MWO does not have strictly defined roles, the role warfare stuff is 'pick and mix', and the variability in which type of weapons you mount and what size engine you have lets you make your mech your own.

Just because someone is in a Light does not mean they must have Scout tree modules, and someone in a Heavy MAY have scout tree modules.

There will be ideal 'scout builds' and 'missile spotter builds' for peopel who want to play those types, but I sincerely hope the metagame will not weigh down on people and force everyone into a small subset of ideal builds

[Freakiie]

Stray Ion, on 22 July 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

Hurry up and run to a location, just to stand around and wait for a couple hours. (don't take it personally)

In other games I will followed commands, if the person issueing the commands knew what they were doing. From reading the forums I gather that there are a lot of ex-military and current millitary personal into MWO, which IMO is a good thing because they know tactics.

I'm the type of person you can tell what to do, but not how to do it. People have to realize this is a game and not everyone wants to play military style, but those who do might have an advantage when playing together.

I am the type of player who likes to play with people who know their roles and support their team. Most people see it as a bunch of lone wolves, but in actuallity it is a bunch of people who can think on their feet and very few commands are issued. To each their own I guess.

Well the OP is referring to "the top of the game". I'm pretty damn sure a corps at the top will have a tactician that has a clue about what he's doing. Discipline is simply one of the requirements to stay at the top. Sure base defense is dull when no enemy shows up, but somebody has to do it. If you don't have the discipline to stay at the base when you're the base defender and just go run off to where the fight is do you think you'll stay in a top corps?

That area isn't suited for casual players I suppose. The problem comes when casuals want to be at the top, while staying casual. You can't expect to get into a top mech corps but at the same time do your own thing. To be at the top you have to make compromises. Sometimes an order goes before fun. That's why you find mostly players that enjoy winning more at the top and not people that enjoy stomping around a giant mech more (everyone wants to win ofc, but for some it's fun, for others it's the priority), because they have far less problems with doing a boring task to ensure victory.

Personally I don't mind following orders like that as long as it's not all the time. Important corps battles are to win, random battles are to stomp around in a huge mech. Some people however want to take the random attitude into corps battles and that's where it goes wrong. (same goes vice versa ofc)

[JFlash49]

Dude...Playing one way and one way only? that doesnt sound like mechwarrior. respect the chain of command but if you see an opportunity to strike take it

[rareth]

Redshift2k5, on 22 July 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

MWO does not have strictly defined roles, the role warfare stuff is 'pick and mix', and the variability in which type of weapons you mount and what size engine you have lets you make your mech your own.

Just because someone is in a Light does not mean they must have Scout tree modules, and someone in a Heavy MAY have scout tree modules.

There will be ideal 'scout builds' and 'missile spotter builds' for peopel who want to play those types, but I sincerely hope the metagame will not weigh down on people and force everyone into a small subset of ideal builds

Exactly, I for one want the 7x zoom module that was mentioned in a video thats in the scout tree, sniper set up here I come.

[SuomiWarder]

Well, I would imagine that the flexibility of mechs means that you are not locked to one role (wizard ranged guy, healing buff guy, melee guy, etc.) as you can be sniper one match, long range missile the next, and then brawler after that with the same "character".

Speaking as a guy that has led many missions in MW4 league games, yes there are times when players were told which mech to take and given "orders" in the field. This should be a little different because it's looking like you own your personal mechs rather than use the unit's mechs. (Which in league play meant only certain models in certian numbers were available).

But my mechwarrior experiences have been more akin to a soccer match than a marching drill where you need to make every step as directed. The leader expects his lancemates to use their own discrecetion and to put themselves in the most effective places when they need to be there. The game play we have seen released looks very similar to previous MW games with better graphics and some rule changes on weapons and armor.

As the meta game will not be in effect until Christmas or so, the early months are mainly free for alls anyway. You can do whatever you want. You will find you have more wins and perhaps a better time working with a group on comms - but you are not forced to do so.

We willhave to wait for the maps to determine if there ends up being only 2 or 3 "lanes" that get used for victory. Hopefully not, allowing more variaties in tactical and stratigic gameplay.

Edited by SuomiWarder, 22 July 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Gorith]

You have to understand that there WILL eventually be a meta. there is in every highly competitive game how strict it is in every game is also different. LoL as mentioned has a strict meta but it's not set in stone just takes the entire team to agree on an effective way to break it thats why you see everyone abiding the meta in every game that your not a 100% pre-made.

[Rebel Zakk]

The game itself have a big potential in tatics, but if you are talking about unorganized random battle it will never be good enough... Know that from playing WoT almost year and a half. There are and will be noobs always. But I expet some organized encounters to be more effective and there you can talk about tatics. For now it is way to early to talk about something like that.