259 replies to this topic

[Chris Lowrey]

Hello MechWarriors, As with every patch, we closely observe both the feedback and match metrics. This assists us in observing the overall state of the game. Which allows me, as one of the designers who works on game balance, to both determine the overall state of balance, and target changes to further improve it. While we do not often share the results of our findings publicly, given the scope of the changes introduced with the latest patch, and the many discussions that have cropped up from those changes, I wanted to take the time to share with you guys some of the takeaways we have had through observing the current metrics since the release of the Skill Tree.

• Inner Sphere Lights are currently seeing the biggest overall improvement from the Skill Tree system over the previous system. Their overall Win / Loss ratio jumped up 22% over pre-skill tree Win / Loss numbers.
• The introduction of the Defensive Tree has resulted in an overall boost to resilience. This has resulted in an increase to overall damage output scores across the board. Globally averaging at a +30 damage increase over the previous system.
• Inner Sphere to Clan balance in Win / Loss ratios between 'Mechs is the closest it has ever been within the game. With a global average performance difference of 6% between the factions. With the widest individual performance difference between 'Mech chassis' being 8%. While these numbers are the best that I have observed while part of the team, we are still of the opinion that these can be improved further. More on that below.
• Low performing 'Mechs got a huge bump with the Skill Tree / Engine Desync. The separation between top performing 'Mechs and lowest performing 'Mechs has greatly diminished over previous patches.
• Additionally, a much wider variety of variant load-outs are performing well under the current system. We are seeing a much higher variety of different load-outs not only deployed, but preforming well within their matches.

Here are the most improved 'Mech chassis since the introduction of the skill tree based on data since the May 16th patch:

• Dragon
  • 4th Greatest improvement in Win / Loss ratio. (30% increase)
  • 3rd Highest Avg. Damage Improvement over all 'Mechs. (+69.35 average damage)
  • 2nd Highest improvement in Kill / Death Ratio. (38% increase)
• Commando
  • 3rd Greatest improvement in Win / Loss ratio. (33% Increase)
  • Highest improvement in Avg. Damage for Light 'Mechs. (+56.95 average damage)
• Panther
  • Greatest improvement in Win / Loss ratio. (63% increase)
• Gargoyle
  • Highest improvement in Kill / Death Ratio (42% increase)
• Warhawk
  • Highest Avg. Damage Improvement over all 'Mechs. (+70.34 average damage)
• Raven
  • 2nd Greatest improvement in Win / Loss ratio. (58% increase)
• Nova
  • 2nd Highest Avg. Damage Improvement over all 'Mechs (+69.58 average damage)
• Grasshopper
  • 3rd Highest improvement in Kill /Death Ratio ( 20% increase)
• Wolverine
  • 4th Highest Avg. Damage Improvement over every 'Mech. (+65.79 average damage)

These numbers are from a fairly limited data pool given the limited amount of time that the Skill Tree has been released. So we are currently not viewing this data as "absolute" at this point in time. With time, things will settle as we get more data and these numbers may change. But we wanted to share with everyone the latest look at the current state of the game under the skill tree system based off the previous few weeks. With this said though, I want to make crystal clear that this does not mean we feel that balance is as good as it could be. This data has also highlighted a number of rough edges that we are fully aware about and we want to assure everyone reading that we will be addressing these points in future patches as we identify them. Among these points are a number of 'Mechs that have swung wide into both over performing, and under performing territory. The most extreme of them will be addressed in the June patch. With more to be addressed in future patches past June. Among these 'Mechs being targeted for June adjustments include:

• Night Gyr
• Marauder IIC
• King Crab
• Firestarter
• Black Knight

Beyond this, baseline Inner Sphere / Clan balance remains a high priority as we move forward. June will see a pass at re-balancing the Energy weapons, and we will continue to refine the balance between Inner Sphere and Clan weapons and equipment as we move forward into future patches. We will continue to observe and make adjustments based on our findings to ensure that we continue to refine balance within the Skill Tree system.

[Zoeff]

Very nice to see all of this information. I do wonder what the highest increase in average damage is though...
Any hints?

EDIT: Oh warhawk, didn't see that before. Derp!

Edited by Zoeff, 29 May 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Just don't tell me MAD IIC and Night Gyr are underperforming now.

KGC definitely is. A mech that big and wide with main weapons so low and lowest agility possible and loss of the torso twist that made it viable before... you basically can get shot twice before you get to show your weapons to the enemy now.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 29 May 2017 - 10:09 AM.

[cazidin]

I'm rather concerned that those five mechs, including the KGC, will see nerfs in the future patch while I understand that you may not be able to comment am I misunderstanding here? Because the Black Knight and Night Gyr, IMO, are well performing.

[Battlemaster56]

Yes I noticed the Night Gyr performance have gone up with the MADIIC and may need to be looked at a little closer, as for the King Crab it really feel over reliant of perfect position to make use of it's firepower even with extra points in survivablilty to keep it running but now weapons are fly faster, burn quicker it's gonna be difficult for slow gun boats to be strong in the field.

[Zoeff]

cazidin, on 29 May 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm rather concerned that those five mechs, including the KGC, will see nerfs in the future patch while I understand that you may not be able to comment am I misunderstanding here? Because the Black Knight and Night Gyr, IMO, are well performing.

Presumably the KGC will get a buff of some kind, since those mechs outlined there are listed as either under- or overperforming.

[Scout Derek]

Zoeff, on 29 May 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Presumably the KGC will get a buff of some kind, since those mechs outlined there are listed as either under- or overperforming.

Actually, moreover a nerf for the KGC I would think in the future. With the coming of new weapons and equipment, a KGC will be able to mount 2 Ultra AC/20s. That's double the damage of a KGC with just regular dual AC/20s, that's quite a bit, 40 more points of damage.

Also, thanks for the info Chris, appreciate it.

Edited by Scout Derek, 29 May 2017 - 10:24 AM.

[cazidin]

Battlemaster56, on 29 May 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yes I noticed the Night Gyr performance have gone up with the MADIIC and may need to be looked at a little closer, as for the King Crab it really feel over reliant of perfect position to make use of it's firepower even with extra points in survivablilty to keep it running but now weapons are fly faster, burn quicker it's gonna be difficult for slow gun boats to be strong in the field.

I've honestly had better matches in my Timber Wolf than my Night Gyr (recently purchased) so I hope they plan to give it a slight buff, if much at all. Nerfing it's agility could obsolete it just as most 100 tonners are now. Removing it's quirks? We'd shrug and swap omnipods still. Give it negative quirks? We'll shrug and swap omnipods still.

Scout Derek! Need I remind you, not only of the ghost heat of U/AC-20's but also their high jam chance? They're barely viable on Clans!

Edited by cazidin, 29 May 2017 - 10:25 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

cazidin, on 29 May 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

I've honestly had better matches in my Timber Wolf than my Night Gyr (recently purchased) so I hope they plan to give it a slight buff, if much at all. Nerfing it's agility could obsolete it just as most 100 tonners are now. Removing it's quirks? We'd shrug and swap omnipods still. Give it negative quirks? We'll shrug and swap omnipods still.

I haven't touch mine from my order a while ago been expermenting on alot of builds and my Timbers are doing better in their skirmisher builds, but I seen that Night Gyrs are doing better int eh department of PP damage with velocity quirks in the tree, and with agility they atleast can re position themselves better.

After ah finishing leveling the last 2 out of 5 Linebackers I'll go run my Gyrs to see how they fair. Also need more info on Black Knights since they're rare gems in this game atm, only saw one in polar domination.

[MechaBattler]

Firestarter is getting a look at! Finally! Thank you! I certainly hope it's not considered overpowered. Just because i did 500 damage in one the other day. >.>

[East Indy]

cazidin, on 29 May 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm rather concerned that those five mechs, including the KGC, will see nerfs in the future patch

He bundled the over- and underperformers in one set of bullets, looks like. Some parentheses would help.

Chris Lowrey, on 29 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Inner Sphere Lights are currently seeing the biggest overall improvement from the Skill Tree system over the previous system. Their overall Win / Loss ratio jumped up 22% over pre-skill tree Win / Loss numbers.

What about something more direct, like match score or time before death? Numbers and payout are why players make choices; not consolation prizes. Plus, Win/Loss could be anything. Every time I have crushed ice with my Cran-Cherry, the Cavs win!

Chris Lowrey, on 29 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Low performing 'Mechs got a huge bump with the Skill Tree / Engine Desync. The separation between top performing 'Mechs and lowest performing 'Mechs has greatly diminished over previous patches.

That also sounds like correlation/causation. Explain how and why you're seeing it.

[cazidin]

Battlemaster56, on 29 May 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

I haven't touch mine from my order a while ago been expermenting on alot of builds and my Timbers are doing better in their skirmisher builds, but I seen that Night Gyrs are doing better int eh department of PP damage with velocity quirks in the tree, and with agility they atleast can re position themselves better.

After ah finishing leveling the last 2 out of 5 Linebackers I'll go run my Gyrs to see how they fair. Also need more info on Black Knights since they're rare gems in this game atm, only saw one in polar domination.

I, Emperor Cazidin of the Word of Cazidin, am a Master of the Black Knights - for they are the true IS Heavy of our divine order!

When you are ready I shall share from the Ancient Text on how to master yours!

[Battlemaster56]

cazidin, on 29 May 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

I, Emperor Cazidin of the Word of Cazidin, am a Master of the Black Knights - for they are the true IS Heavy of our divine order!

When you are ready I shall share from the Ancient Text on how to master yours!

Maybe one day when my mechs don't put in the space ghettos with nothing to refil my consumables, but for now my Marauders, Timberwolves and Linebackers will keep me occupied til the holy day.!!!!

[Scout Derek]

cazidin, on 29 May 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

Scout Derek! Need I remind you, not only of the ghost heat of U/AC-20's but also their high jam chance? They're barely viable on Clans!

Who's to say, however, that IS Ultras will be anything like the clans version? What if they're single shot? If they are, Ghost heat can be easily avoided via chainfire.

There's some IS mechs out there that can fire both AC/20s at the same time and have no negative effects from GH whatsoever.

Edited by Scout Derek, 29 May 2017 - 10:36 AM.

[VVonka]

The reason NTG and MAD IIC are edge cases is because the limited amount of time the skill tree has been running. Its plain as day these mechs would be the winners (before the patch went live). If you nerf them then 2 more will take their place quickly. Also more LRMS on field = more damage. Would be interested to see what the increase is for LRM damage and increase for NON LRM damage. Also Laser vomit coming back = greater damage spread = more damage.

[StormFrog]

High engine capacity heavies and assaults feel terrible to play now. The agility nerfs were too severe.

[Luminis]

Smells like an agility nerf for my MAD-IIC

Edited by Luminis, 29 May 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[Notorious Meerkat]

Meanwhile, I'm having more trouble with Raven(s) than ever before. Something just feels...off.
What's your skill tree & setups, folks who're making it work? Mind sharing?

[Kangarad]

the 5 mechs are either under orm over performing by alot.

safe to say that the nightgyr will get nerfs and the KGC will get buffs.


The KGC realy needs buffs right now tho and the NIghtgyr is very much a top mech and deserves the incomming nerfs.

I just hope they dont over do it.

[Battlemaster56]

Scout Derek, on 29 May 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Who's to say, however, that IS Ultras will be anything like the clans version? What if they're single shot? If they are, Ghost heat can be easily avoided via chainfire.

There's some IS mechs out there that can fire both AC/20s at the same time and have no negative effects from GH whatsoever.

I think for pgi sake not to make the IS UAC 10 and 20 not be single shot but a small burst (smaller than clan version) would be a wise decision.Also 30 tons of weapons put in the arms and you used, plus I'm using an XL 325 just for weight saving sake with endo and leaving 27 tons to play with means I can add 4 erml, and fill the rest with heatsinks and extra ammo, or add 4 srm6 with 3 tons of ammo and 4 heatsinks. In the end you gonna make alot of sacrifices just to fit two on a KGC-0000 as I used as a template for a theory build.