259 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Summon3r, on 29 May 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

lol, standard clan nerf incoming............ btw how in the h3ll is the BLR-2C not in ultra over perform category? i mean i dont mind rolling around with 5LPL and durability quirks out the wazoo ticking off 5-600 dmg a match in it. makes me want to switch to IS for CW.

With the new tree, I do not see Battlemaster C2 performance changing much, if any, as it still relies on the cXL and mobility and a functional group environment. Post patch its had its energy range removed. accel/decel /turn rate removed. The only thing it kept is its Structural bonuses.

So, it has to make up what was lost in the base Skill Tree, the range/cooldown LPL modules, and radar dep/seismic modules. It can get part, but not all of that back, as well as boost the IS bonus some.

Remember, that setup only really shines in an ACTUAL group setting, not a pug setting, in that if you are the only battlemaster and everyone else has heavies, lights and LRMS shits, you are prim.... But that is the same with many mechs.. if no synergy, you are basically ******...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 29 May 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

ForceUser, on 29 May 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Better mechs carry harder. Just like better pilots carry harder. Someone with a 70% win rate in mech A is a better player than someone with a 30% win rate in mech A and in MWO part of that is build *and* in match performance of both mech and pilot.

You just listed WHY W/L ratio is a terrible metric...Pilot A can win 70% of the time in mech X, but Pilot B can only win 30% of the time in mech X. Now, you tell us, is that a function of the mech? the pilot? or of the team? and is Mech X balanced based on that example? is it OP? is it underperforming?

[Weeny Machine]

Chris Lowrey, on 29 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

....

A question, Chris, are you satisfied with the queue distribution? (Screenshot from today, EU prime time)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 29 May 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[ForceUser]

Bulletsponge0, on 29 May 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

You just listed WHY W/L ratio is a terrible metric...Pilot A can win 70% of the time in mech X, but Pilot B can only win 30% of the time in mech X. Now, you tell us, is that a function of the mech? the pilot? or of the team? and is Mech X balanced based on that example? is it OP? is it underperforming?

That's the point, it's *part* of it, just like each of those things is. Damage done, W/L, Survival, Damage taken, KDR, etc. Everything is influence by player skill, everything is influenced by the rest of the team, but it evens out over enough matches. Damage done evens out over enough matches so you get average damage done, a useful metric. Why is average W/L suddenly not a useful metric? If a mech consistently has a higher average w/l over other mechs, then that mech is better same as if that mech has a higher average damage done or survival rate or KDR. It's not the one and only metric they measure mechs by, it's just one of a dozen.

[CK16]

Nerfing the Night Gyr and Mad IIC is fine...just do not nerf it into none existence....

[Steinkrieg]

Hitting pay-only mechs with a nerf bat is never a good idea. Pushing people out of mechs that they paid to play makes them not pay for new mechs. The Spirit Bear is unplayable after the desync. Scorch got a bit of a boost due to mag and missile racks, and uac jam chance. Some MASC and agility quirks are definitely needed for the SB. Negatively quirking the MaDeuces, particularly the Scorch, will force people out of them into other mechs that they can then break the mold on again, and thus the cycle repeats. You'll just start seeing MkDeuces (Mad Cat MkII) running the same as what the Scorch did if you nerf them.

What is the end goal, really? Because nothing will ever be balanced unless everyone is the exact same.

[Cy Mitchell]

I know energy weapons are getting some attention right now for the June patch. I hope the erPPCs are included in that. Beyond that, please look at ballistics in the near future. Jam chance frequency was adjusted last fall to rein in the KDK-3, NIght Gyr and other Mechs boating dakka. I agree something needed to be done but the way it was done by adjusting jam chances and cooldown times really impacted those mixed builds that use one or two UACs as part of their loadout. While testing builds with two UACs on testing grounds I have repeatedly had one or more guns jammed 27% of the time while double tapping. Then the cooldown does not even start until the jam has ended which means you are often without one or two of your bigger weapons for long periods of time. Dakka boats with three or four UACs can fight through this. Lighter Mechs with one or two UACs cannot.

Please investigate a system where the jam frequency is tied to the number of equipped UACs so that mixed builds are not overly punished as they currently are.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Hmmm Marauder IIC up on the list and we know that even though they nerfed it quite a bit, it isn't under performing, which means.....Yeah can I get a Refund for my Marauder IIC pack now??? I got $55 invested and if it is going to take an even worse nerf that it already took with the Engine Desync, I want my money back.

[Chris Lowrey]

Bush Hopper, on 29 May 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

A question, Chris, are you satisfied with the queue distribution? (Screenshot from today, EU prime time)

This is the queue for people attempting to drop into a match, not the queue for what 'Mech's are being taken into the matches. All this image shows is that if you are entering the Match Making Queue, you will drop into matches faster if you take a Light 'Mech. It is not an accurate depiction of the tonnage distribution for the matches themselves.

Nor am I saying that I'm satisfied with the current state. Which is why we are sharing our current findings with everyone to show the current trajectory from the past few weeks and planning further actions through upcoming patches.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Rampage, on 29 May 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

I know energy weapons are getting some attention right now for the June patch. I hope the erPPCs are included in that. Beyond that, please look at ballistics in the near future. Jam chance frequency was adjusted last fall to rein in the KDK-3, NIght Gyr and other Mechs boating dakka. I agree something needed to be done but the way it was done by adjusting jam chances and cooldown times really impacted those mixed builds that use one or two UACs as part of their loadout. While testing builds with two UACs on testing grounds I have repeatedly had one or more guns jammed 27% of the time while double tapping. Then the cooldown does not even start until the jam has ended which means you are often without one or two of your bigger weapons for long periods of time. Dakka boats with three or four UACs can fight through this. Lighter Mechs with one or two UACs cannot.

Please investigate a system where the jam frequency is tied to the number of equipped UACs so that mixed builds are not overly punished as they currently are.

Totally agree. Said this when the first increased the Jam chance. They even said it was a good part because of one mech, the KDK-3. I mean it is kind of fricken ridiculous, that all those mechs that don't boat 12 UACs got shafted because of one over performing mech. Hell I have all but removed my UACs off my Clan mechs and this is crazy because the only good Ballistic weapon they have is the UAC.

[Gwahlur]

Chris Lowrey, on 29 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

• 
  
  Panther
  
  • 
    
    
    Greatest improvement in Win / Loss ratio. (63% increase)

I like to think I had something to do with that

[Angel of Annihilation]

DGTLDaemon, on 29 May 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

So, not only the Clan lasers are getting nerfed in the June patch, but also the Marauder IIC and the Night Gyr? Whatever. It's not even funny anymore. Both of those mechs are barely driveable right now because of low mobility. Not sure what other nerfs PGI can come up with.

Yep that is how I feel. I mean the Night Gyr is already at about half the Acceleration/Deceleration rate of the vast majority of heavy mechs and is near the bottom of the Acceleration/Deceleration of the Assault mechs with only 100 ton mechs having worse. This is on a 75 ton mech. So my question is what is left to nerf?

As far as the Marauder IIC, again what is left. It has by far the slowest Acceleration/Deceleration of any mech except for the 100 toners. What are we going to see, the Marauder IIC nerfed down to their levels, 6.19 Accelleration??

[Scyther]

Very good info, and kudos for taking the time to share it with us! Looking forward to seeing how this all progresses. (also, hope some of the feedback you folks are following is on the UI /QoL side of things and not just combat data)

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

#ShockinglyNotShock

So exactly what all the people railing against the Skill Maze said would happen, happened. The top tier mechs got better (besides the KDK but that was nuked from orbit with all the other 100T mechs) while the worst mechs got worse... how they can even pretend to talk about "balance between tech" is beyond me since we all know that there is a severe lack of CW play right now. I waited over 20 minutes trying to find a match the other day before giving up in frustration when the episode of TV I was watching on my computer ended without a match made the entire time. Just like the "stats" they released for Tukayyid lumped Invasion & Scouting totals together to try to make it look like there is a closer balance then there really is... not surprising in a game where there are so many "vulture killers" & "cancer pilots" who go out their way to pad their own KDR stats to the detriment of almost every team that is unfortunate to be suck with them.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

I would like to know in a table format these results suggested above by Chris or have they been cherry picked?

Also what are the 5 biggest drops in performance in those categories?

Also, Also, will they be removing negative quirks from mechs (eg Timberwolf omnipods)

[Luminis]

Viktor Drake, on 29 May 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Yep that is how I feel. I mean the Night Gyr is already at about half the Acceleration/Deceleration rate of the vast majority of heavy mechs and is near the bottom of the Acceleration/Deceleration of the Assault mechs with only 100 ton mechs having worse. This is on a 75 ton mech. So my question is what is left to nerf?

As far as the Marauder IIC, again what is left. It has by far the slowest Acceleration/Deceleration of any mech except for the 100 toners. What are we going to see, the Marauder IIC nerfed down to their levels, 6.19 Accelleration??

Negative quirks.

Something like "-20% projectile velocity".

[Vxheous]

Jman5, on 29 May 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that two mechs that are labeled as overperforming both happen to be able to equip Dual-Gauss+ Dual ER PPC.

50 pinpoint + 10 splash damage, and with range to boot, is just too much.

Mad Cat Mk II will be able to mount Dual Gauss Dual ERPPC.

[derFiend]

Chris Lowrey, on 29 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

• Inner Sphere Lights are currently seeing the biggest overall improvement from the Skill Tree system over the previous system. Their overall Win / Loss ratio jumped up 22% over pre-skill tree Win / Loss numbers.

Thats right, most of the IS Lights are performing well, expect: Spider, Firestarter and Raven. Don´t know how a Raven enter your list with W/L stats... but guess it depend more on lrm assist which are there in masses at every game. The Raven itself is still to fragile, and as soon something with LRM will change, the Raven will underperforming...

Edited by derFiend, 29 May 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[Coolant]

well i don't pilot any of those 5 mechs whether they are under or over performing.

[Nighthawk513]

How about not dropping a Nerf Tom on the Mad IIC-D with a movement profile nerf. It already has a lower engine cap that the others anyway...