104 replies to this topic

[Baba_Yaga]

Glad you like itl it ******* sucks ***!

[Dee Eight]

I finished the event saturday and was continuing to play and ninety-one my mechs one by one when last night I decided after reading someone say they were onto their 3rd account... why not finally make a second account just to test the skill tree fully from a fresh account perspective. Now granted I'm doing so with lots of game knowledge but I wouldn't have any easy grind cheats available unless I outright buy a hero or champion from the store, and no pool of historical XP and skill points to just pull from.

So I made a new account, ran the academy missions, got the 5 million bonus, then started with some trials mechs. Ten missions in trials (once KDK-3 and nine times the NVA-S... LARSH....it NEEDS more ammo), and then I bought a SCR-D, chucked its stock weapons load and fitted an active probe, 3 Streak-6s and 2 SRM6+Artemis, 8 tons of ammo, and that's it. Started playing it and started unlocking nodes. First mission out got 13k XP thanks to the 24hr new account premium time and the event bonus and the first win bonus (the three solo kmdds and 700+ damage and dozen limb amputations probably contributed too). I've just now finished the cadet 25 bonuses (so 15 in the crow) and I'm at 60 nodes unlocked, I have 5.2 million in the bank, and I haven't touched the bonus 48k GXP that is now the cadet 25 bonus. I've got 10 nodes in auxillary for double maxed coolshots and strikes, 19 in sensors for full radar dep, seismic and sensor range boosts, plus the info gathering and decay and 360 nodes along the way. 8 in operations to gun 6% max heat and 4% cool run (plus the stuff in between), and the other 23 are in the firepower tree.

I made one $6.95 MC purchase so this account will meet the MC loyalty prize this year AND I wanted to buy a horn. Plus once I hit the 10k match score and get all the prizes, I'll use the colors and the discounted one-shot camo's to complete this mech. Just need another decal sale to ice its cake. In 25 total matches I've reached 6,392 match score. I should be done the event by the 40th total match, and finished skill noding by the 25th in this mech. Then the account gets parked until the next event or sale happens. Also I will get to see how a minimal spending new occassional player, can do to build up value over the next few months.

[TELEFORCE]

What I like the most about the skill tree is not having to move modules around 'mechs, and no longer having to buy three of the same chassis type to master something. I find myself using advanced zoom with seismic sensors on a lot of my 'mechs

[Dee Eight]

On some mechs I'll buy into the full 100% radar dep but on others I'm finding 60% is fine. Only the LRM users are really going for all the target decay nodes... and since they won't actually stick their heads out a lot of the time now to get their own locks... I really just have to break the lock of whoever is spotting for them who probaby didn't take more than a couple decay nodes...and well... 60% off 2.4 seconds is now less than a second.

Edited by Dee Eight, 29 May 2017 - 05:25 PM.

[Rusty Metal Skullgun]

I would prefer we not antagonize them to stir up another **** storm again. It was unbearable on the forums and reddit for weeks. If you're wondering where they went to, don't worry, we'll get another **** storm when the laser rebalancing comes up, and then civil war, and then additional balancing, and etc...

[Monkey Lover]

Skill tree is fine but engine desync with nerfs im not so happy about it. Balance has gone to junk again. Most IS mechs aren't worth taking anymore.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 May 2017 - 05:28 PM.

[Ruar]

Rusty Metal Skullgun, on 29 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

I would prefer we not antagonize them to stir up another **** storm again. It was unbearable on the forums and reddit for weeks. If you're wondering where they went to, don't worry, we'll get another **** storm when the laser rebalancing comes up, and then civil war, and then additional balancing, and etc...

Because people opposed to the way the skill tree was implemented and raised concerns about that somehow were opposed to the skill tree overall?

It's incredibly frustrating when people providing good, solid feedback get lumped in with the ones who can't stand any change. Then you wonder why people give up on the game because any solid response is ignored because it's labeled "whining".

[Chiasson Brinker]

I took advantage of the MC sale and bought the Nova hero. Starting with a mech that I had zero xp with, I've had a good time slowly working my way through the skill tree. Finding a configuration that you like and building the skill tree around it seems to be the best way that I've found to make the best of the system. It helps that mechs aren't totally useless when they're unskilled. A lot of headache can be avoided simply by being patient.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Dee Eight, on 29 May 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

I finished the event saturday and was continuing to play and ninety-one my mechs one by one when last night I decided after reading someone say they were onto their 3rd account... why not finally make a second account just to test the skill tree fully from a fresh account perspective. Now granted I'm doing so with lots of game knowledge but I wouldn't have any easy grind cheats available unless I outright buy a hero or champion from the store, and no pool of historical XP and skill points to just pull from.

So I made a new account, ran the academy missions, got the 5 million bonus, then started with some trials mechs. Ten missions in trials (once KDK-3 and nine times the NVA-S... LARSH....it NEEDS more ammo), and then I bought a SCR-D, chucked its stock weapons load and fitted an active probe, 3 Streak-6s and 2 SRM6+Artemis, 8 tons of ammo, and that's it. Started playing it and started unlocking nodes. First mission out got 13k XP thanks to the 24hr new account premium time and the event bonus and the first win bonus (the three solo kmdds and 700+ damage and dozen limb amputations probably contributed too). I've just now finished the cadet 25 bonuses (so 15 in the crow) and I'm at 60 nodes unlocked, I have 5.2 million in the bank, and I haven't touched the bonus 48k GXP that is now the cadet 25 bonus. I've got 10 nodes in auxillary for double maxed coolshots and strikes, 19 in sensors for full radar dep, seismic and sensor range boosts, plus the info gathering and decay and 360 nodes along the way. 8 in operations to gun 6% max heat and 4% cool run (plus the stuff in between), and the other 23 are in the firepower tree.

I made one $6.95 MC purchase so this account will meet the MC loyalty prize this year AND I wanted to buy a horn. Plus once I hit the 10k match score and get all the prizes, I'll use the colors and the discounted one-shot camo's to complete this mech. Just need another decal sale to ice its cake. In 25 total matches I've reached 6,392 match score. I should be done the event by the 40th total match, and finished skill noding by the 25th in this mech. Then the account gets parked until the next event or sale happens. Also I will get to see how a minimal spending new occassional player, can do to build up value over the next few months.

You should extend this further, though...spend the 1.4 million C-bills it'll take to finish your 91-point mastery, which leaves you with 3.8 million C-bills left...not enough to buy your next mech, unless you want an IS mech under 50 tons, so it'll be more grind because under the old system, you could have saved all your C-bills for the next mech purchase, but now you've spent 4.1 million on skills instead, leaving you with more of a grind to increase your stable. It's definitely going to be a lot harder for newer players to build their stables. I too started up an alt account and after buying my 2nd mech and desired equipment, all the rest of my C-bills are going to the skill tree, so I'll have to grind just as much after reaching 91 nodes to then afford the next mech.

[OrmsbyGore]

Reza Malin, on 29 May 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

No more rule of 3, no more module swapping, tailoring mechs to play to their strengths.

Loving it.

The more i play it, the less i see any downsides.

Thoughts? (beyond, "waaah, i have to reskill 100 mechs", because so do i)

while I appreciate an end to the rule of 3, I am opposed to any rpg style stat boosts in a non-rpg game. My definition of skill is what I am able to achieve through practice and good play, not artificially enhancing my performance with stat boosts (which must be hell for newish players).

Also, what do you mean no more tailoring mechs to play to their strengths? That is literally what the skill tree is

[Dee Eight]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 29 May 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

You should extend this further, though...spend the 1.4 million C-bills it'll take to finish your 91-point mastery, which leaves you with 3.8 million C-bills left...not enough to buy your next mech, unless you want an IS mech under 50 tons, so it'll be more grind because under the old system, you could have saved all your C-bills for the next mech purchase, but now you've spent 4.1 million on skills instead, leaving you with more of a grind to increase your stable. It's definitely going to be a lot harder for newer players to build their stables. I too started up an alt account and after buying my 2nd mech and desired equipment, all the rest of my C-bills are going to the skill tree, so I'll have to grind just as much after reaching 91 nodes to then afford the next mech.

I did...just converting the GXP and XP I was still gaining thru matches as I hadn't finished the 10k for the event yet. The last game got me over the top and now all 91 nodes are done. I still have the 48k bonus untouched. My balance is now 4.555 million c-bills, I still have 750MC after my horn buy, there's 5,200+ XP left on the mech if I wanted to re-skill it, and my match score total stands at exactly 9,400. So I need to keep playing for another hour maybe. My last match totaled 1,358 damage to the enemy and 151 to the team (my artillery strike during a raging brawl got more than just the enemy). 2 killing blows, 10 assists, 4 KMDD, 2 Solo, 7 components, 3 savior kills. 838 Match score. I earned 389k and spent 160k using all four consumables. It was a domination game in the sulphur springs, and we only lost 3 mechs and swept their team completely. The account is running a 258 match score average.

Over 24 matches acquiring the total of 91 nodes this is the mech stats...


STORMCROW SCR-D 24 15 9 1.67 19 17 1.12 11,288 73,209 02:56:17

And in all that time, I earned zero supply caches.

Edit : did another match (still have 90 mins of premium time left, might as well earn cbills for the next mech purchase)... broke the record damage from the previous game. Canyons Skirmish. 1,398 damage and 717 match score. That's enough to get me to the event prizes. Solo KMDD'ed a MAD2C-Delta and a MAD-3R, and two assists being legged a dire and shot up a misery.

Edited by Dee Eight, 29 May 2017 - 07:37 PM.

[Ruar]

OrmsbyGore, on 29 May 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

while I appreciate an end to the rule of 3, I am opposed to any rpg style stat boosts in a non-rpg game. My definition of skill is what I am able to achieve through practice and good play, not artificially enhancing my performance with stat boosts (which must be hell for newish players).

Also, what do you mean no more tailoring mechs to play to their strengths? That is literally what the skill tree is

To be fair, BT has an RPG element in it when you build your mechwarriors up. Hence why there are piloting and accuracy skill modifiers.

[OrmsbyGore]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

To be fair, BT has an RPG element in it when you build your mechwarriors up. Hence why there are piloting and accuracy skill modifiers.

Yes, but BT has randomized damage location output, not mouse controlled pin-point damage. If there was more random chance of spreading damage I'd be ok with skill modifiers. MY point is that if you're going to make an fps, make an fps, don't sprinkle rpg into it (unless you mean 1st person story mode, but mwo will never have that)

[Ruar]

OrmsbyGore, on 29 May 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Yes, but BT has randomized damage location output, not mouse controlled pin-point damage. If there was more random chance of spreading damage I'd be ok with skill modifiers. MY point is that if you're going to make an fps, make an fps, don't sprinkle rpg into it (unless you mean 1st person story mode, but mwo will never have that)

Pretty much every FPS now has RPG elements. It's been that way since COD Modern Warfare or BF2... not sure which one came out first and don't feel like looking it up.

Pin point damage is a separate issue from RPG elements and I'm not sure why you are using one compared to the other. The best thing MWO could do is limit convergence in some way. There are multiple options but the game would be better if damage was spread around like in BT. It would solve so many of the issues with ghost heat and boating. Sadly I doubt we ever see it happen.

[OrmsbyGore]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

Pretty much every FPS now has RPG elements. It's been that way since COD Modern Warfare or BF2... not sure which one came out first and don't feel like looking it up.

Pin point damage is a separate issue from RPG elements and I'm not sure why you are using one compared to the other. The best thing MWO could do is limit convergence in some way. There are multiple options but the game would be better if damage was spread around like in BT. It would solve so many of the issues with ghost heat and boating. Sadly I doubt we ever see it happen.

In BT, you roll dice to see where your shots connect. In mwo, you can control your where your shots land by aiming. As a result, the skills that reduce random chance in BT just increase performance in mwo, and this skill tree is exacerbating the issue by creating the possibility of the same mech with the same loadout having different ranges/speeds/etc. That would be fine in a tabletop game, but I find it a bit irksome in a(n) fps.

[Rusty Metal Skullgun]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Because people opposed to the way the skill tree was implemented and raised concerns about that somehow were opposed to the skill tree overall?

It's incredibly frustrating when people providing good, solid feedback get lumped in with the ones who can't stand any change. Then you wonder why people give up on the game because any solid response is ignored because it's labeled "whining".

Yeah except I'm not talking about people with reasonable criticism, I'm talking about the people who were threatening mass exodus and crying bloody murder over something none of us were capable of understanding the implications of. I mean you had atleast 4 threads at a given time on page 1 complaining incessantly about mouse clicks in such a way you'd think they thought PGI was concocting this as an evil scheme to give them all carpal tunnel. You had people making doom and gloom threads about how MWO was about to die because of all the people quitting.

No one cared about rational discussion over the issues with it because it certainly isn't perfect. But what most of us grew weary of was the collective temper tantrum that just consumed part of these forums and the reddit for weeks.

[Reza Malin]

OrmsbyGore, on 29 May 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

while I appreciate an end to the rule of 3, I am opposed to any rpg style stat boosts in a non-rpg game. My definition of skill is what I am able to achieve through practice and good play, not artificially enhancing my performance with stat boosts (which must be hell for newish players).

Also, what do you mean no more tailoring mechs to play to their strengths? That is literally what the skill tree is

I never said no more tailoring mechs. In fact i said the exact opposite.....re-read it.

[Reza Malin]

Spheroid, on 29 May 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Really you can't think of any downsides? How about reduced mech variety on the battlefield. Given enough time only about half a dozen mech variants out of three hundred will be seen at all.

Also I would argue that the new business model is harmful to the bottom line. What exactly is going to make up the difference in revenue? Clan heroes? LOL. I predict fewer mechbay sales as well.

Server costs are real, office rental and taxes are real. Reducing the ability to meet these expenses brings the end of the game sooner had the three mech model system remained. As they are a privately held company though the owners can do as they see fit sadly.

Eh?

Before the skill tree, we saw reduced mech variety anyway. Not sure what you are talking about. Any further lack of variation is less to do with the skill tree, and more to do with the sheeple that play this game, but wont even move a small laser around unless a website or a youtuber tells them its ok.

Probably the same people thay have metamechs bookmarked. Is this you?

The skill tree enables many more mechs than before to be viable. If you cant see that i dont know what else to say to you.

Also, lets leave profit projections out and leave that to people that have far more knowledge about PGI's plans than anyone here.

Edited by Reza Malin, 29 May 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[Reza Malin]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Played a bunch over the weekend finally since I was out of town for nearly a month and couldn't play.

I'm still undecided on how I feel about the tree effects in game. I absolutely dislike the web design of the tree and I think there are much better ways to implement a tree design, but that's not really what you are asking.

I like that rule of three is gone, but that's also not tied to the new tree.

I like that I don't have to module swap. I didn't realize just how annoying that was until I don't have to do it anymore.

I don't like that I have to start a mech without radar dep when before I could throw it right on. Yes there is GXP but I don't like using that for any new mech I decide to play.

I can customize my mechs some, but I feel like there are certain skills that are a requirement still and I have to take them in order to be competitive. Radar dep, speed tweak, and the bulk of the mobility tree are getting unlocked on all of my mechs. In the end I have about 20 or so free skill points I can spend to actually customize. Laser duration or range? Firepower or survival? Does spending 20 points in either really have a significant effect on my mech?


Honestly I just feel kind of blah now when I log off each night. There are skills I would like to add but I can't get them because they aren't as beneficial as other skills. Seeing a 2 or 3% change to a skill isn't enough to really care about. I'm just not as interested in the game simply because of the way they handled implementing the skill tree. I'm not spending money on the game anymore and I've lost a lot of my passion for the game.

While I think going to a new skill tree design is going to benefit the game in the long run I think they've also permanently damaged their relations with the player base which is going to hurt the game significantly over time.

So much wrong with your mindset here.

Firstly rule of 3 being gone is directly tied to the new skill tree system. Do you know what the rule of 3 is/was?

Secondly, no skill is essential. You just perceive them to be. Even if you had no skills at all, you could still do well with any number of mechs and a decent build.

The only thing wrong with thr skill tree that i can see is a lot of the playerbase are to lazy to utilise it. Yet i bet a lot of the same people were crying that the skill tree needed revamping.

Usual MWO forum crap.

I can skill a mech up in about 2 minutes now. Its really not a big deal. I skilled up 2 drop decks worth in about 20 minutes and was good to go.

[OrmsbyGore]

Reza Malin, on 29 May 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

I never said no more tailoring mechs. In fact i said the exact opposite.....re-read it.

My mistake