164 replies to this topic

[Medicine Man]

Pat Kell, on 15 June 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

The best way to become better is by playing people who are better than you...And no, I don't have to admit that a coordinated, well honed unit will always beat pugs because every single unit out there will tell you stories of how they got over confident or sloppy or just plain out played by a group of pugs and lost. Doesn't happen often but I know for a fact that it happens. I do think that clan mechs are better but not by as much as some would think but ultimately it doesn't really matter because teamwork is what's OP. The tech is close enough that proper teamwork will win the day most of the time.

Again, it's your game, you play it how you want but please don't get upset at people who want to play as a team in a mode that was designed by PGI to be a team mode. Regardless of what you think PGI should do differently, the situation is what it is. Join a team and win a lot, drop solo and lose a lot or don't play at all. Those are your options. But if you want to get better, then option 3 isn't going to get you there.

Goddamn this is stupid. You don't even read what people write do you? You can't determine that someone is better than me because they work with a tight group day in and day out and I solo. Ton per ton, accuracy, awareness and reflex aren't really being tested in a match like that. In fact nothing at all is being tested. All that is happening is that people who work together and coordinate really well are beating people who don't.

There's no winning for me in this arrangement at all. If I have to join a unit and start dealing with ******* people every drop and between every drop I've lost just as surely as if I got seal clubbed. If I have to start leading one then it's even worse. I don't want to invest a lot of my life and time into an online game anymore. I just want something to play and have fun with. I can't do that if I have to socialize to much. Most folks are ok but those people who piss me off pretty much just make me see red now a days. It's no good for my blood pressure.

What I don't understand is why you fancy **** with your units and what not aren't just fighting each other for bragging rights. You slag around the forums acting all big and bad with your nice group/teamwork based stats like you have skill and ability. It's moronic. If you have skill and ability then prove it. Take your teams up against other pre-made teams and live in that mode. Leave us ******* puggers alone. Fight in a league that is balanced and then brag. Until then your just a groupie ****** in my book.

Edited by Medicine Man, 25 June 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Goddamn this is stupid. You don't even read what people write do you? You can't determine that someone is better than me because they work with a tight group day in and day out and I solo. Ton per ton, accuracy, awareness and reflex aren't really being tested in a match like that. In fact nothing at all is being tested. All that is happening is that people who work together and coordinate really well are beating people who don't.

There's no winning for me in this arrangement at all. If I have to join a unit and start dealing with ******* people every drop and between every drop I've lost just as surely as if I got seal clubbed. If I have to start leading one then it's even worse. I don't want to invest a lot of my life and time into an online game anymore. I just want something to play and have fun with. I can't do that if I have to socialize to much. Most folks are ok but those people who piss me off pretty much just make me see red now a days. It's no good for my blood pressure.

What I don't understand is why you fancy **** with your units and what not aren't just fighting each other for bragging rights. You slag around the forums acting all big and bad with your nice group/teamwork based stats like you have skill and ability. It's moronic. If you have skill and ability then prove it. Take your teams up against other pre-made teams and live in that mode. Leave us ******* puggers alone. Fight in a league that is balanced and then brag. Until then your just a groupie ****** in my book.

I'm not sure where your socialization failed and that's out of scope for addressing in this forum. So going to ignore the stuff that's Judy you seeming to be absolutely clueless about how normal humans gather in groups, communicate and coordinate and what that entails. It's about as involved as sitting next to them at work but whatever.

This game is played in teams of 12. Every time you play you are on a 12man team, unless it's scouting than you're on a 4man team. You also drop in 1-4 mechs, depending on the mode that you can modify in the mech bay. If you choose to play stock mechs or an Atlas with an XL and 2 MGs and the rest ammo, you can. You'll lose to people who made good mechs however. If you choose not to coordinate with your team of 12 (which you are always in) and the other team does you're going to lose.

99.999% of teams are casual. The get on voip, laugh and joke and play. Most don't even call targets or the like - they may take a few minor steps to coordinate decks (I'm bringing LRMs, anyone want to bring TAG sort of stuff) and that's it. General agreement on strategy and tactics. "Let's go left gate" stuff.

Which is enough against people who bring bad mechs and refuse to coordinate and play badly. Those things tend to go hand in hand. FW, having reaspawns and more complex objectives leans more into the value of teamwork than regular QP. It pays more because the expectation is there to put more effort into teamwork.

It's not hard. None of it is. 99.999% of units are not competitive - they use a little teamwork and by speaking and playing with other people they share builds and things that work and as such their average performance is higher. That's how humans work - why cities work, why humans gather in groups. Shared knowledge being better and all, coordination being better, etc.

That you don't understand the difference between the casual teams of FW and comp play though also answers a lot.

[Medicine Man]

That's cute. Try to make it about psychology and avoid the fact that premade teams have a huge advantage over pugs yet again. Lol you guys will do anything to try and maintain your advantage. Congrats you'll keep it I bet. But your premade teams will be all alone in a very underpopulated and dusty FP. Especially when MW5 comes out and all the soloists/puggers disappear.

[MischiefSC]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

That's cute. Try to make it about psychology and avoid the fact that premade teams have a huge advantage over pugs yet again. Lol you guys will do anything to try and maintain your advantage. Congrats you'll keep it I bet. But your premade teams will be all alone in a very underpopulated and dusty FP. Especially when MW5 comes out and all the soloists/puggers disappear.

First, hears that argument for ages - in fact have made it, in a sort, myself. However FW issues are the lack of depth and purpose to keep units there. The thousands and thousands of unit players who voided in FW 2 because of the lack of purpose, faction identity and depth (like logistics) are what's needed back.

The "huge advantage" is the same sort of huge advantage I have by making a good mech to bring to a match vs the terrible potato builds. It's not an exploit, it's why the game is designed to build groups. The mechanic being used to build a group is in the game client. Most teams use TS because the audio is better and we can talk between matches because social creatures are social.

FW is harder than QP. That's why it pays more, it's sorta the whole point of it, a more challenging environment, factions fighting, teamwork, etc.

[Medicine Man]

MischiefSC, on 25 June 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

First, hears that argument for ages - in fact have made it, in a sort, myself. However FW issues are the lack of depth and purpose to keep units there. The thousands and thousands of unit players who voided in FW 2 because of the lack of purpose, faction identity and depth (like logistics) are what's needed back.

The "huge advantage" is the same sort of huge advantage I have by making a good mech to bring to a match vs the terrible potato builds. It's not an exploit, it's why the game is designed to build groups. The mechanic being used to build a group is in the game client. Most teams use TS because the audio is better and we can talk between matches because social creatures are social.

FW is harder than QP. That's why it pays more, it's sorta the whole point of it, a more challenging environment, factions fighting, teamwork, etc.

There is nothing inherently more challenging about FP over QP. Except for the unfair and busted team vs soloist dynamic. It's challenging if you enjoy fighting adversaries who have an unequalizable advantage over you. Which I don't.

[MischiefSC]

Except teams don't drop in 12s most the time. Also teams are not equal. So if QP had no matchmaker it would be the same? If it allowed groups of any size in?

Because QP used to have 0 matchmaker, no tonnage limits and mix 4man groups in. That was way harder.

You really don't seem to understand what groups are and how they work. Most are strangers on TS. The teams that drop 12 unit members on TS are, at most, 4 or 5. And that's including the ones who can do that 1x a month. There is no team doing that regularly.


The majority of teams in FW are mixed and who just grouped up to drop. Most are strangers. They just actually try to do that teamwork thing.

[Lazor Sharp]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

That's cute. Lol you guys will do anything to try and maintain your advantage.

That's cute. Lol you Soloists will do anything to try and maintain your Disadvantage in a TEAM BASED GAME.....

I really don't get it, wanting to play a team based game, as a solo........ and then complain about most everyone else that is not a newbe or a total potato, is playing a team game, as a team, using team work, and getting to know each other, and starting to play well together after a few weeks........... I have been in many different units from back during MW4- MechTec, always had fun...

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Especially when MW5 comes out and all the soloists/puggers disappear.

I have been saying for several years now, that MWO's population is so horribly unsociable, anti team, anti team work, anti unit, and so Solo/Rambo/Stray Cat/Uber Casual oriented, that once a PvE version of MWO comes out, that about 60 to 70% of MWO's population will leave to play PvE exclusively, with perhaps only 10% or so of them ever coming back to MWO-PvP..........

MW5 PvE will be a good place for new players to Learn how to build up mechs and pilot them. And have the Content to learn the finer points of the Game and Lore, and the Battle Tech universe before, jumping into the deep end with TEAMs, and the Team Work infested waters of MWO...... If they add 4 Man CooP , that would help Vets train New Players , so they can come Play MWO with out getting stomped as much being a newbie, and they learn how to play a team based game, as a team, first thing.....

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 25 June 2017 - 08:14 PM.

[Medicine Man]

Lazer,

Why would anybody come back to MWO when they have their own game to play as they see fit offline? Especially when that game is going to outmatch MWO for graphics, etc because it's newer.

Also I think you have this community wrong. There are a lot of team oriented mechwarriors. In fact every version of mechwarrior has been about team playing. It was just in the old days your teammates were AI's that you could just boss around without getting any guff back.

The problem isn't the community. The problem with MWO is FTP model requiring a lot of treadmill/grindy behavior that just isn't fun. It's actually kinda stressful. Especially after a few hours of it. And then you throw in the seal clubbing on top of it or some dumb event that makes everybody drive a light mech and the stress loads drive people into nastiness.

The truth is that the FTP model is based squarely around making a game unfun and miserable so that people will spend money to make it easier. This translates to cranky mechwarriors and bad/selfish decisions.

There is no way that a FTP based game like this could compete with a single player mechwarrior.

The only chance MWO has is if PGI totally screws up mechwarrior 5 which is frankly at least a 50/50 bet. Especially because they have to know on some level that MWO is threatened by MW5 and so they will likely do things to **** up MW5 in an effort to keep it in parity with MWO.

This community is mostly ok. It has the same kinds of problems that all online communities have. But the FTP model puts stresses on players especially when facing unbalanced matches and it pushes peoples buttons.

The fifth time in a row I got seal clubbed I almost put my fist threw a wall.

Now I ask you is that leisure time well spent?

Edited by Medicine Man, 25 June 2017 - 08:48 PM.

[Deathlike]

If you're blaming being F2P is the reason you're being seal clubbed, I think your definition is really messed up. One is not connected to the other whatsoever unless the designs (you have to be specific, and not just accusatory) are built that way, and it's not. It's just sucks to be a new player in MWO, not because it's F2P.

If you're not working as a team, you're part of the problem.

[Medicine Man]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

If you're blaming being F2P is the reason you're being seal clubbed, I think your definition is really messed up. One is not connected to the other whatsoever unless the designs (you have to be specific, and not just accusatory) are built that way, and it's not. It's just sucks to be a new player in MWO, not because it's F2P.

If you're not working as a team, you're part of the problem.

No I'm blaming FTP for the reason why people can't stand being seal clubbed and why the acrimony/bitterness levels become so high in that situation.

[Deathlike]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

No I'm blaming FTP for the reason why people can't stand being seal clubbed and why the acrimony/bitterness levels become so high in that situation.

People not being able to handle seal clubbing has nothing to do with F2P. It has to do with the NPE (New Player Experience) of lack thereof. Since it doesn't really exist in MWO, it is easy to quit this game and not give it a second look, mostly in due part not knowing what to do (like torso twisting, mech building, and a host of other things like mech selection and role). Again, it has zero to do with F2P (you haven't even described why F2P is the problem).

[Medicine Man]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

People not being able to handle seal clubbing has nothing to do with F2P. It has to do with the NPE (New Player Experience) of lack thereof. Since it doesn't really exist in MWO, it is easy to quit this game and not give it a second look, mostly in due part not knowing what to do (like torso twisting, mech building, and a host of other things like mech selection and role). Again, it has zero to do with F2P (you haven't even described why F2P is the problem).

I've explained it in other threads. I'm pretty sure I've touched it on here too. Ultimately the point of FTP is to make a game terrible, grindy and unfair so that people will spend money to "ease" their time in the game. That leads to a lot of funless scenarios for people and a lot of frustration especially when confronted by overwhelming situations like seal clubbing.

Anyway I'm done talking about this. You guys are ******* rockheads. Exactly what I expected from FP folks. And that's why I avoid ya'll like a plague.

Edited by Medicine Man, 25 June 2017 - 09:10 PM.

[Deathlike]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

I've explained it in other threads. I'm pretty sure I've touched it on here too. Ultimately the point of FTP is to make a game terrible, grindy and unfair so that people will spend money to "ease" their time in the game. That leads to a lot of funless scenarios for people and a lot of frustration especially when confronted by overwhelming situations like seal clubbing.

Anyway I'm done talking about this. You guys are ******* rockheads. Exactly what I expected from FP folks. And that's why I avoid ya'll like a plague.

You're doing a crappy job of putting up a counter argument other than "it's F2P, therefore it's bad" which isn't really an answer. That and "working together is OP" and "I won't put any effort into getting better or getting help from other people".

I mean, you can pull out whatever lame excuse you'd like, and I'm not even a fan of PGI's progress in MWO or the pathetic NPE, but if you're going to argue a decent point, get good reasoning skills instead of "teamwork is OP, and I refuse to do teamwork" BS.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 June 2017 - 12:47 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

That's cute. Try to make it about psychology and avoid the fact that premade teams have a huge advantage over pugs yet again. Lol you guys will do anything to try and maintain your advantage. Congrats you'll keep it I bet. But your premade teams will be all alone in a very underpopulated and dusty FP. Especially when MW5 comes out and all the soloists/puggers disappear.

In the Group/Unit queue, duh. You already know that and so does EVERYONE due to being warned.

And to combat that advantage, what did PGI give you?

Faction Chat
VOIP
LFG

It is 'your' fault for not using what solo's asked for to combat Premades.

What did the community give you to combat that?

TS Hubs
Unit Forums

Again, it is 'your' fault for not taking advantage of any of them.


So, can we count on you leaving too when MW5 is out? It's clear you cannot handle group centric game modes with your soloist mentality.

[iLLcapitan]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

I've explained it in other threads. I'm pretty sure I've touched it on here too. Ultimately the point of FTP is to make a game terrible, grindy and unfair so that people will spend money to "ease" their time in the game. That leads to a lot of funless scenarios for people and a lot of frustration especially when confronted by overwhelming situations like seal clubbing.

Anyway I'm done talking about this. You guys are ******* rockheads. Exactly what I expected from FP folks. And that's why I avoid ya'll like a plague.

Yes please, get back to your cave ASAP. Nobody is interested in your false assessments, name calling or your hatred against people who enjoy playing an online game together, as a team. ******* founder troll

[justcallme A S H]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

You can't determine that someone is better than me because they work with a tight group day in and day out and I solo.

Looking at the QP Leaderboards... Your Avg Match score is around 160 and KDR of 0.30

So most certainly you can tell, generally, how good someone is.

Not being rude here but your stats are well below average for MWO.

Deathlike, on 25 June 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

If you're blaming being F2P is the reason you're being seal clubbed, I think your definition is really messed up. One is not connected to the other whatsoever unless the designs (you have to be specific, and not just accusatory) are built that way, and it's not. It's just sucks to be a new player in MWO, not because it's F2P.

If you're not working as a team, you're part of the problem.

From what the actual facts say, he is just being clubbed cause he needs to improve, a lot.

[Kubernetes]

Medicine Man, why don't you take your own advice: play the game the way you want, and leave us to play the game the way we want. No one is stopping you from joining a group and reaping this terribly unfair advantage. You have social hang-ups and yet you're blaming us for your losses.

[Commander A9]

Let me entertain this notion with a question:

What do you want? What does anyone who complains about Faction Warfare's 'seal-clubbing' want?

I'll tell you, exactly as previous operatives have outlined.

You want one of a few things. Either...
-you want the big teams removed from Faction Warfare
-you want pugs to be banned from Faction Warfare
-you want big teams' stripped of the ability to play as a grouped-up team using Looking For Group
-you want big teams penalized in some way for using Looking For Group to play as an organized single-drop team
-you want pugs and solo players propped up and elevated in some way that makes their gameplaying capacity somehow comparable to an organized 12-man

Let me tell you the truth: None of this will ever occur.

Your solution to the 'problems' you face in Faction Warfare is one of many possible
-use the tools provided to you by game mechanics
-join a unit
-use LFG to find a team
-use VOIP, target-calling, target-marking, and coordination
-improve your individual skill set

There are no alternatives other than refraining from playing in Faction Warfare.

Edited by Commander A9, 26 June 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[Lazor Sharp]

Medicine Man, on 25 June 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

Lazer,

Why would anybody come back to MWO when they have their own game to play as they see fit offline? Especially when that game is going to outmatch MWO for graphics, etc because it's newer.

Also I think you have this community wrong. There are a lot of team oriented mechwarriors. In fact every version of mechwarrior has been about team playing. It was just in the old days your teammates were AI's that you could just boss around without getting any guff back.

The problem isn't the community. The problem with MWO is FTP model requiring a lot of treadmill/grindy behavior that just isn't fun. It's actually kinda stressful. Especially after a few hours of it. And then you throw in the seal clubbing on top of it or some dumb event that makes everybody drive a light mech and the stress loads drive people into nastiness.

While I have 1000's of hours playing PvE MW 2 and 4, and enjoy PvE, This right here, paints you as antisocial... all you want to do is play with AI team mates, against AI opponents, probably set on EASY mode....

I also enjoy playing with REAL PPL, against REAL PPL of all levels, and being a Social Teammate, with like minded Mechwarriors, learning to play together, and get better together, just like any other TEAM BASED Game/Sport.....

If ya are tired of being a Baby Seal in MWO, getting clubbed repeatedly, than quit being antisocial, and do all the things listed by Commander A9, and others above, and have MORE FUN, with less stomps, playing with real PPL.........................

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 26 June 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

Lazor Sharp, on 26 June 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

While I have 1000's of hours playing PvE MW 2 and 4, and enjoy PvE, This right here, paints you as antisocial... all you want to do is play with AI team mates, against AI opponents, probably set on EASY mode....

I also enjoy playing with REAL PPL, against REAL PPL of all levels, and being a Social Teammate, with like minded Mechwarriors, learning to play together, and get better together, just like any other TEAM BASED Game/Sport.....

If ya are tired of being a Baby Seal in MWO, getting clubbed repeatedly, than quit being antisocial, and do all the things listed by Commander A9 and others above, and have MORE FUN, with less stomps.........................

Shoot Lazor how many drops sis we do in MW4 over the years, playing a limited AI is ok for the first one or two time, but the most fun I've ever had playing any game was with teammates on voice comes. Most of my teams over the years used to laugh at my in game comments on comms as part and parcel of the drops.