89 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 31 May 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

MW3 Pulse Lasers were almost like that, they just had a cap on how long the beam could keep going.

This would absolutely be necessary especially for ERLL simply because being able to burst a mech down for their entire exposure like that would be powerful.

FupDup, on 31 May 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I think a continuous beam could maybe work, but the weapon would need to have very good DPS/heat/range stats to make this facetime sacrifice worthwhile.

If they had anything like the dam/tick they do now with maybe less heat or something (though ghost heat would have to change for these weapons) that would be potentially too powerful imo.

[Marius Evander]

So currently pulse lasers are a quick tripple shot with a long cooldown.

Were suggesting changing them to 3 shots with the current cooldown time spread wvenly between each shot?

I like the idea for adding variety to the game

But, unless the damage of each shot is increased it would be a nerf to the weapon because of increased facetime required, so would require a damage increase to balance to compensate.

This style would be less potato and more pro friendly so pgi will probably never do it for that reason.

[LordNothing]

this is xpulse territory

[Zigmund Freud]

I like the idea. I think mw4 had similar puls lasers, and it maked it more different. Generally I agree with almost everybody who supported this idea, all pros were mentioned before, so I'll not repeat them.

[Shifty McSwift]

Pulse deal way too much damage way too quickly currently for this to work as well. Holding down a set or mpls on a target at 400m (with new range 400m mpl is doable for clan at least), would core them out in a couple of seconds from the front.

[Aramuside]

Can't see the attraction of the idea at all and then you run into terrible ghost heat problems with weapons firing repeatedly.

Hated the MW3 version.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 June 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

Pulse deal way too much damage way too quickly currently for this to work as well. Holding down a set or mpls on a target at 400m (with new range 400m mpl is doable for clan at least), would core them out in a couple of seconds from the front.

The damage rate over the active portion of the duty cycle wouldn't stay the same, hombre...

[Snowbluff]

You say is LPL isn't a dps weapon? Doesn't it have the dps of an AC5?

[The6thMessenger]

"Meh" is more like it for me, it's okay if it's some laser MG or just a shorter duration and range laser.

[FupDup]

Snowbluff, on 01 June 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

You say is LPL isn't a dps weapon? Doesn't it have the dps of an AC5?

The reason it's not really a "DPS weapon" is because it does a large amount of damage in a single shot and has a moderately long reload time. "True" DPS weapons are about continuously pushing out damage rather than big volleys with moderate gaps in between.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Snowbluff, on 01 June 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

You say is LPL isn't a dps weapon? Doesn't it have the dps of an AC5?

On top of what Fup said, heat plays into things, an AC5 can sustain that DPS for longer than an LPL can because of heat.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 June 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

On top of what Fup said, heat plays into things, an AC5 can sustain that DPS for longer than an LPL can because of heat.

Speaking of which, if pulses ever did get reworked into "DPS" weapons, then perhaps they ought to get a bit lower heat per second than they have now since heat is the key limiter of DPS in general (especially for energy).

[Gryphorim]

To those saying this is what Xpulse should be, yes, Xpulse is represented this way in MWLL and Mechcommander, but that is not what tabletop descriptions/rules depicted.

To those that are worried that high RoF/DPS focused pulse would remove pinpoint laser weapon, personally, I see standard laser durations being reduced to fill that gap if pulse ever changed. Heavy are likely to be the "long burn-time" option in future anyway.

[A Man In A Can]

They'd be the energy version of RACs, and if weapon math people are having to crunch numbers to find a niche for those ballistics, it's not that hard of a stretch to apply the same niche to pulse lasers to give them a distinct feel from ranged burst-duration lasers of different flavors during this MWO "remodeling" period.

I say go for it. They can even be tested on a PTS along with all the other fun toys dropping in July so we can see how such a role change would work with new and old weapons alike.

[Marius Evander]

FupDup, on 01 June 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

The reason it's not really a "DPS weapon" is because it does a large amount of damage in a single shot and has a moderately long reload time. "True" DPS weapons are about continuously pushing out damage rather than big volleys with moderate gaps in between.

Your "dps weapon" is erroneous.

You mean sustained damage weapon.
As opposed to burst damage weapon.

[G4LV4TR0N]

no

[Lukoi Banacek]

Gryphorim, on 30 May 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

Kanajashi suggested this in his Redesigning Energy Weapons video, but I'm interested in this idea, isolated from the other balance points in that video.

For those who haven't heard the idea before, the idea is that pulse lasers go from "Wub, wub, wub" to just "wub," but they cycle extremely fast, in effect becoming like laser MG's.

Damage per pulse might have to be adjusted, but the idea is that heat management and face-time become the biggest limiting factors.

This would make them functionally different to standard lasers, rather than just a hotter and shorter burn variation on the same.

Would you prefer a "laser MG" / DPS pulse laser or prefer the burst fire version we have now?

Nope.

[Khobai]

Quote

Your "dps weapon" is erroneous.

You mean sustained damage weapon.
As opposed to burst damage weapon.

its not erroneous since a sustained damage weapon typically has the characteristic of much higher dps. hence making it a dps weapon.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 June 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

The damage rate over the active portion of the duty cycle wouldn't stay the same, hombre...

Well no one was really mentioning bringing down the damage to compensate. And if it came down too much it would just neuter the gun to the point that lasers would take the role they once had.

Add to this the fact pulse still functions to instantly deal damage (light speed) at a target when clicked, and it makes the idea of converting pulse lasers to function like MGs into some real potential disaster areas. It would probably be safer to convert a new weapon that functions like an automatic PPC, at least there are projectiles involved there.

Micro pulse will likely function close enough to what amounts to a laser machinegun, but in a balanced way, ultra short distance, instant travel time, very low burn, very low cooldown.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 02 June 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

Well no one was really mentioning bringing down the damage to compensate. And if it came down too much it would just neuter the gun to the point that lasers would take the role they once had.

Common sense, really. It shouldn't need to be explicitly spelled out. TBQH, I am getting exhausted with having to spoon-feed the people I am compelled to converse with if I want to socialize on the forums. Please, read between the lines, and I mean that as inoffensively as possible.

As for being supplanted by standard lasers when weakened, not necessarily. Different use case. The volley fire of standard lasers would provide an opportunity for the enemy to make a move without you being able to retaliate. Constant damage out makes such attempts costly for that enemy. You wouldn't boat this type of pulse laser, you would probably use it in conjunction with ballistics or missiles to pin targets and pound damage into the weak points as they present themselves. A pair of LPL operating in strobe mode like this would pair very well with Ultra and Rotary ACs, better than the volley lasers.

Quote

Add to this the fact pulse still functions to instantly deal damage (light speed) at a target when clicked, and it makes the idea of converting pulse lasers to function like MGs into some real potential disaster areas. It would probably be safer to convert a new weapon that functions like an automatic PPC, at least there are projectiles involved there.

Much ado about nothing. There is nothing inherently dangerous with the concept, at least not to any degree that exceeds the danger with any other mechanic.

BTW, the Machine Gun already fires hit-scan "projectiles". All it has is a cone of fire to weaken it at range but...the range is so short that all of the scans go into a single component anyway when you are inside the bracket.