61 replies to this topic

[Jiang Wei]

I would be fine with BT erppcs as long as they return the gauss rifle to its original state. IE, no trigger timer.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 02 June 2017 - 10:03 AM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Hey you know what could fix all this struggling with Clan ER PPCs? Give Clan a standard PPC for closer ranged combat. They're missing a mid range option for PPCs and it's very obvious. There's only the furnace with lots of things I don't want nor care for in a close to mid range weapon.

As for the idea of buffing ER PPC damage to 15 per hit? I could get behind that, IF, they removed the worthless splash damage, AND upped the cooldown to 5.5-6 seconds instead of the current 4.

I do agree that PPCs, ER PPCs, and especially Clan ER PPCs need some kind of change. But I would much prefer something that makes them more enjoyable to use, rather than a straight up buff.

TL;DR: Give Clan a standard PPC that strips the pointless things like long range (Pointless for close-mid range combat specifically), splash, and high shot velocity. To give them a closer range, cooler running PPC option.

[Jiang Wei]

Apparently you forgot about clan ER lasers.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Clan ER Lasers have a 1.5 second burn time. So unless Clan gets standard lasers at some point, which would be sweet, no I didn't forget about Clan ER Lasers.

[Arugela]

That was why I put up the Micro PPC specs. though It might be OP. I think the limits on clan inner range is part of curbing potential strategy.

C-MicroPPC:
Slots: 1
tons: 3
Damage: 5(Pinpoint only)
Heat: 7
CD: 2-3
Range: 410-810
Max fire: 2 or 3

I don't think upping the CD would be good for C-ERPPC. I liked the idea of velocity drops.

New C-ERCCP:
slots: 2
Tons: 6
CD: 4 seconds
Damage: 15(no splash)
Heat: 14
Range: 810-1620
Velocity: 1000?
Crit: 0% or very low.(if 0% possibly added by TC only and skills.)

The only other reason I can think for it to be lower is to force PPC on assaults to focus on Heavies... Because Heavies can focus slowly on assaults.. that may be the issue. Otherwise everything could slowly PPC assaults more easily. with Assaults being able to PPC themselves more quickly if doing quad. Although this is only a few mech setups... Normally, you should be using double at most too have backup weapons so you don't go without fire for so long. This locking in damage per heat bar to certain mech types feasibly. Anything beyond massively exposes you to enemy mechs being smart and crushing you.

Clan PPC setups are restricted by volleys.

Qaud PPC on an assault can get up to 2 volleys. This means a max of 80 damage before a significant heat bar. This needs to be combined with Secondary fire to help kill structure. So at most you want to pick off heavies or lower or assault side torsos... If at 120 it then allows CT grinding from Quad setups then structure death. And gives more versatility to general fire in case of going against larger numbers of units possibly. But maybe it's not needed. Not sure.

Triple PPC(Which is very clunky to install) can get 2 volleys in a normal setup with side weapons and 3 only using PPC and maximising heat. This means 60 damage or 90 damage... If increased to 15 that means 90 or 135 damage. Generally giving heavies the ability to take on Assaults.Which is what I thought they were for.(I could be wrong.) This sort of setup doesn't really fit anything well in this game and I think is generally no efficient compared to other setups. Especially when considering multiple people fire together on targets.

Dual PPC can normally get the same damage but at a cost of much longer fire times.

Single PPC is fun. It can be easily made to fire indefinitely on clan. then you get a single free long range instant fire weapon. I think alot of mechs are designed for this on clan.

I think I'm too used to my direwolf which has the ability to do 100 or 140 alphas! ><. I'm used to erasing my enemies at will.

Either way, I need to remember to fire on ST with a quad setup and not CT. I'm used to CT firing builds. The qaud setup is also only on front tanking builds(Supernova/Direwolf) or on the arms(Kodiak.). I don't know if it fits well on kodiak though. that lets you get away with stripping the mech if you now how to tank. it will reduce the damage after taking out weapons particularly well on cone/frontal tanks. Definitely better in a group though.

But that brings up an interesting thought, and one reason I thought it was meant for CT fire. If the spread doesn't spread well when used on ST or non CT location what is the point of that spread mechanic. If the damage is only good for ST attacks. Then why not make it ideal to spread from ST... Or does it spread to arms well and just not legs? I'm assuming if you hit ST it will likely only spread to CT and not arms for less damage overall. If it spread to arms and CT then It's not an issue. It would make sense that it does not spread to legs well.

That would make the SNV-3 Qaud PPC an assault ST attacker and possibly heavy CT striker.

Unless the 15 damage lines up better in other ways...

Edited by Arugela, 02 June 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

New PPC
WB Micro Sub Capital ERPPC
Slots 12
Weight 21t
CD 10sec
Heat 50
Damage 300 Splash 50
Range 2000-4000m
Velocity 2000m/s

This weapon is totaly balanced stuff.

When you don't have realized why a 6/2 15dmg ERPPC is bad yet; you never will.
Maybe under a complete different setting, although this would already be flawed because the cERPPC should never had existed with given stats. (Kingslaughter ERPPC would have been more than enough)

[SPNKRGrenth]

Oh look how cute, someone using hyperbowl for an argument, talking as if a 15 damage PPC couldn't be balanced. Hey here's a wild idea, increase the cooldown to 6 seconds. Heck aside from that change, he's even suggesting taking the crit chance away or severely reducing it, and having the projectile speed be slower.

Nice try though, using emotion and lack of reason to say why you disagree with something. Much better than suggesting ways of balancing an idea.

The heat generation should probably be increased to reflect the higher damage though. Like 16-17 heat per shot.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 06 June 2017 - 09:01 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

SPNKRGrenth, on 06 June 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

Nice try though, using emotion and lack of reason to say why you disagree with something. Much better than suggesting ways of balancing an idea.

I have given enough reasons already.
Would the massive HPPC be balanced with 15dmg pin point, less range and minimal range - 14-15 heat? Yes
Would the small weight ERPPC be balanced with 15dmg pin point, almost the best range, no minimum range 14-15 heat? No

Oh you are cute too - 6seconds reload. Because recharge and cool down are the most important values for a sniper.
Make it 8 seconds - and its still an imba weapon - even when you have halfed the DPS. But hey no reasons...believe what you must.

[Yukikaze Alecto]

And so? If you're sniping, you really shouldn't be constantly holding down the firing trigger/button. You wait for a good shot, and fire off as much damage as you can. Then be willing to wait a long time for the next clean shot opportunity. Anything less and you're just acting as sporadic long range covering fire and hoping shots land, or you've given up on max DPS per salvo in hopes of spreading out damage.

If anything, the 6-8 second recharge/cooling time isn't a bad idea. Although if you really want to make it somewhat more fair about hitting hard at the 15 damage/15 heat it should suppose to have, make the bolt's velocity lower by about 160-220m a sec or so. Then you get one of three things happening:

A. you're a deadshot with them - which only really good/experienced players are going to be.
B. players have to wait for the range to close if they're not good at sniping.
C. players have to be willing to trade out some of their heat curve for a targeting computer to offset the lowered bolt velocity.

This still means that, counting the overall player base, not just the experts, that those who will go with quadPPC setups will still get their massive single salvo strikes in, but still have to wait a long time before pulling it off again.

Or if we want to be cruel, double the ghost heat produced on paired, tripled, quad, etc CERPPCs.

Although it'd really help if they hadn't given it a range boost above & beyond the CERLL. By lore, the CERLL has better range than a CERPPC (25 hexes over 23 hexes), so why the hell the CERPPC has more on MWO, is beyond me. That's one of the first things I'd want to see get chopped down. Either give it a shorter range, period, or have its max damage start dropping off 20-30% sooner than it currently does while keeping the same range it has now. Personally? I'd slash the range outright. Currently the CERLL reaches 1480m without skill buffs, and the CERPPC reaches 1620m without skill buffs. I'd flip that completely with the CERLL reaching 1620m while the CERPPC gets dropped to 1480m or so, and then slash at least another 150m off the CERPPC's range down to say, 1330m, if that. Its a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.

As it currently stands, once you get to around 600m or so, any IS Assault packing quad standard PPCs will actually start edging out both Clan Heavies and Clan Assaults mounting quad ERPPCs, in DPS put down range, simply due to their lower heat cost. So if someone comes around a corner/out of cover and its 600m, even though the IS standard PPC has already started seeing its DPS drop at 540m, its still almost even considering the cooling differences. To say nothing about how the IS mechs have far more ST options when it comes to mounting PPCs, and can somewhat ignore the loss of an arm. Which means they can stay in the fight longer, while a Clan mech missing an arm is in for a world of pain. In a Battlemaster versus a Warhawk scenario, both with quad PPCs, with the Battlemaster using normal PPCs in its torso, and the Warhawk's ERPPCs in its arms - at anything less than 600m, and usually the Battlemaster will be the winner of that match. I've done it, had it done to me, and seen it done to others. Frankly, as it currently stands, its better to mount quad LPLs or ERLLs for hitscan purposes if you're a Clan Assault or Heavy, than quad ERPPCs.

Edited by Yukikaze Alecto, 07 June 2017 - 02:57 PM.

[Kaptain]

So many people claim the splash damage is "worthless"... Lets remove it then. 10 damage for less crits and tons vs IS. After all, the splash damage is "worthless", right? That extra "splash" never crits out weapons, pops an IS XL, or crits ammo right? "Worthless" right?

All I hear is: "boo hoo my smaller, lighter weight ERPPC that ALSO does more damage doesn't also do all of its damage front loaded." Bottom line is your !@#$ is already better, good luck getting people to sign up for it being even more so.

Edited by Kaptain, 07 June 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Yukikaze Alecto, on 07 June 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

As it currently stands, once you get to around 600m or so, any IS Assault packing quad standard PPCs will actually start edging out both Clan Heavies and Clan Assaults mounting quad ERPPCs, in DPS put down range, simply due to their lower heat cost.

???
First question why closing? Why not staying at 1000m?
Second - consider you could use plenty available of cover to close to 90m

BLR-1D
vs
WHK-PRIME

So - its 10% more range for the STD PPCs vs 5% less heat for the ERPPC
for both you get 14% more range (if not wasting a skill for 15% range)

This gives a total of +24% for the PPC - 670m and only +14% for the ERPPC 923m
Considering you want to use all the heat gen too. -10,5%
So its 4x 8.5heat vs 4x 11.83 heat

The Warhawk has 15points more capacity and dissipation - so 5-8 shots will leave the Warhawk at the same %heat as the Battlemaster maybe even more.
+more velocity, more speed more armor, more range.... seriously???

---

However....

I was seeking for the stats for the APDS - found it in the Interstellar Rulebook - as well as the "early Clan tech"
I think this is quite interesting:
There are Enhanced and Improved PPCs as well as Enhanced and Improved ERPPCs

The Improved is the light weight variant of the (ER-)PPC (6 and 2 but same stats)
Where as the Enhanced grant more pinpoint damage (ER)PPC(12 instead of 10 but same weight and crits)

So - I could life when those 3 PPCs are available for the Clans (obviously that the Improved ERPPC would not be necessary)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 08 June 2017 - 02:19 AM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Karl Streiger, on 07 June 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

I have given enough reasons already.
Would the massive HPPC be balanced with 15dmg pin point, less range and minimal range - 14-15 heat? Yes
Would the small weight ERPPC be balanced with 15dmg pin point, almost the best range, no minimum range 14-15 heat? No

Oh you are cute too - 6seconds reload. Because recharge and cool down are the most important values for a sniper.
Make it 8 seconds - and its still an imba weapon - even when you have halfed the DPS. But hey no reasons...believe what you must.

Yes we're both just so adorable. ... Wait why is cute a bad thing again? Whatever. I can see your point on 15 points being too much damage for a 6 ton weapon regardless of cooldown, outside of something ridiculously high like 12 seconds. You also mention sniping having alpha matter far more than cooldown, which is a very good point. The the deeper problem ends up being that Clan doesn't have a non ER option for PPC.


Alternate idea to give the Clan ER PPC some love, if giving Clan a closer range standard PPC is some sort of taboo I didn't know about. Lose the weak splash damage, lower the heat generated per shot from 14 to 12, keep damage the same. Lower velocity some to make it more dodgeable as well maybe? It seems that option is always ignored.

I just want a usable PPC for Clan outside of burst sniping, that's it. Personally I don't care what the damage is so long as it's not out of control, and just was irked that the OP's idea was being shot down in it's entirety, instead of suggestions being made for a more balanced idea. Like holy hell I didn't know Clan ER PPCs were such a touchy subject around here.


@Kaptain. Yes "worthless", aka unwanted. Because axing the splash damage for 1-2 less points of head generation would be far more useful. All the splash does is hit something other than what I'm aiming for, when I don't want or need it. Useful for some? Undoubtedly yes, I imagine there are those who put it to good use. But in this case, being able to use the weapon itself more often would be far more desirable. You can hear nothing but crying if you like, but my take on it, is I'd far prefer less heat generated than small bonus damage splashed to parts I'm not trying to hit.

@Yukikaze Alecto. In regards to lowering the projectile velocity of the PPC to be more easily dodged at range, it was mentioned multiple times of dropping it from 1300 m/s to 1000 m/s but got ignored for some reason. Which would also make it more challenging to use with Gauss at range. So yes that would be the idea.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 09 June 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

SPNKRGrenth, on 02 June 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

I do agree that PPCs, ER PPCs, and especially Clan ER PPCs need some kind of change. But I would much prefer something that makes them more enjoyable to use, rather than a straight up buff.

Sorry for the double post, but I don't know how to add extra quotes to something I already posted to save my life. Just wanted to point out this is my take on PPCs. I don't want any buffs that makes them kill faster or become godly for their tonnage. I'd much prefer a quality of life improvement for the weapon system, while keeping its hitting power more or less the same as it is now.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 09 June 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

LOL


Well very hard to reply in any "kind" manner but I try.

First I put my finger were I think it hurts. I don't give "a something" - if its Clan or IS mechs, OK Clan are always something that hurt - first because they were poorly initialized at the beginning (not PGIs fault) - second because they simple are a abomination of the will of Blake, third - because ******* parrots invade Skye in the Dark Age.

About the Tier stuff - you know to rise in tier you need to play the game on any regular basis - since Steam launch - I played exactly 62 hours MWO. While it could have been 350-400 games - I spend also some time in CW (prior to Phase 3 - non afterwards) lots of time in the lobby. Of course building stuff is also necessary.

However to not make it so difficult for you to get an Idea - i collected values from the last 12 years - you can make it on your own.... thanks to the leaderboard (must have been april 2016)

127 Games with 68 wins so PSR was rising all the time - don't know are 127 games enough to get you from mid T4 into T1? I don't think so. Because you know I'm that bad I give you proof.
In those 127 games I died 104 times and only killed 43 mechs - in your little pink world this means obviously that i hit the ground more often then the enemy. Believe what you must - I do the same.

Before you ask - if PSR would be worth anything - I think T3 would be a perfect spot for me - but I really like to have the MM disabled - oh I forgot it is already for 7 months now


I know what I can, I know what I can't and still you failed to deliver just one real reason to give the ERPPC 15 pin point damage. My Warhawk with 4 ERPPCs works fine - the Huntsman with 2 ERPPCs works fine - give them 15 dmg if you think you need it - I don't. Its always BattleMaster .... burn duration .... any other reason.... and when you realize that you don't have any arguments left you start to get personal. You know I'm that bad that I really wish we could get the 5 shots for the UAC20 back with 0.15sec between the shots rather than 4 and 0.11sec - felt better in 2014. Or that i really hope the Gauss Charge will never be removed.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 June 2017 - 03:30 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Right there is bile in some of my posts, as in my first answer in this topic. But yeah I'm ignorant and yeah i don't have a ******* clue about anything?
And now? Are we done? No? Come on - i can take the fire... speak: What's eating your?

I'm still waiting for an answer form the OP

Karl Streiger, on 31 May 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Can you summarize all your arguments for a change in one or two sentences.
Then, what would you pay for 15. Finally what is the main argument against 15dmg ppcs.
Please consider all builds (Koshi, Shadow Cat, Ebon...)

Not in a wall of text - I might be ignorant but I know the fallacy when answering in a wall of text. Keep it simple, get to the point - and we could start from there.

W E N D I G O, on 09 June 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

So finally, your reply is just proof of what was obvious from the first place (and is not only known throughout the german community) - you are on of those "die-hard-IS-Ihateclans-makeBattletechgreatagain-removeClansforever" antiquities that never got over it them being implemented in the tabletop and now cry on every platform about how bad they are spitting venom at every possibility just for the sake of it.

Well considering this is a complete miss comes not even close. You don't even know how wrong you are.

Edit: because you asked - have indeed written a guide, but I don't feel eager to actualize it.
https://steamcommuni...s/?id=573118937

Edit2:
You really think that Tier stuff is worth the time you need to write about it?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 June 2017 - 06:07 AM.

[Arugela]

I think the proper equivalent to C-ERPPC is actually PPC. Even now with the heat management realities. It's always the basic same outcome as C-ERPPC but usually taking a little longer. I've been comparing to that. IS ERPPC seems to do the same as C-ERPPC heat wise, but at half damage potential.. Or it would be if C-ERPPC was 15 damage.

This might make sense with better speed and maneuverability on IS. Against clan cone tanking mechs you want to take it from angles. Not up front. The wider the angles the shots are coming from the more it hurts that type of mech. Those are the worthwhile PPC giants on clan side from what i can tell. They have to keep damage in front to tank.

I did this with that build.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0afc37c967aa939
with max heat skills it can do 40x3 for 120 damage for 100 tonner assault CT values. Then it has a quicker 12 damage laser combo if needed.

I could not find a way for Qaud IS ERPPC to balance out heat wise. Let alone get some small weapons for structure damage or general low heat backup. I get the feeling Quad IS ERPPC needs quirks or should be left to duel plus other weapons. More side weapons in that case which can be interesting.

Edit: I oopsed and didn't use Mediums. I usually use the bonuse weapons if quircked to give it the best layout.. That mech should probably be only Dual PPC + 6 medium lasers. I don't think it's fit for Quad PPC. Only a few mechs seem to be ideally capable of it.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1dd2d1c16da1aee

240 damage pure PPC over 12 volleys per heat bar. 150 Damage pure medium lasers per heat bar.

Or http://mwo.smurfy-ne...433a8298b3fd2be

360 damage with pure 2xppc per heat bar. 180 pure 6xML per heat bar.

Edited by Arugela, 09 June 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[Kaptain]

W E N D I G O, on 09 June 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

Don't forget why there are ideas such as increasing CERPPCs to full pp damage - no good dps pp weapons like IS autocannons/ultra autocannons and laser burntimes which are just above what is actually bearable

......

But you do know all that so maybe it's just you want to enjoy your crutches as long as possible.

IS got its "crutches" because clan mechs were stomping IS in FW... and from what I saw last, still were. That said I am not a big fan of mech quirks and would like to see maybe %80 removed esp weapon quirks.

As for clan ACs and lasers?

"Boo hoo my smaller, lighter weight autocannons don't have pin point front loaded damage"
"Boo hoo my smaller, lighter weight, higher damage dealing, longer range lasers don't ALSO have a short burn time"

Pretty sure clan lasers do more damage per second during their burn btw. Isn't the medium like %40 more damage for only %25 more burn time? As for the others, they are smaller and lighter-weight and have longer ranges so... deal with it?
Perhaps if people have a problem with lasers and auto-cannons we should talk about that instead? Personally though I feel most things are pretty balanced these days. The Clan Small Pulse laser and both IS and clan LPS need a damage nerf. Other then that things are ok.

Edited by Kaptain, 09 June 2017 - 10:25 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Arugela, on 09 June 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I think the proper equivalent to C-ERPPC is actually PPC. Even now with the heat management realities. It's always the basic same outcome as C-ERPPC but usually taking a little longer. I've been comparing to that. IS ERPPC seems to do the same as C-ERPPC heat wise, but at half damage potential.. Or it would be if C-ERPPC was 15 damage.

This might make sense with better speed and maneuverability on IS. Against clan cone tanking mechs you want to take it from angles. Not up front. The wider the angles the shots are coming from the more it hurts that type of mech. Those are the worthwhile PPC giants on clan side from what i can tell. They have to keep damage in front to tank.

I did this with that build.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0afc37c967aa939
with max heat skills it can do 40x3 for 120 damage for 100 tonner assault CT values. Then it has a quicker 12 damage laser combo if needed.

I could not find a way for Qaud IS ERPPC to balance out heat wise. Let alone get some small weapons for structure damage or general low heat backup. I get the feeling Quad IS ERPPC needs quirks or should be left to duel plus other weapons. More side weapons in that case which can be interesting.

Edit: I oopsed and didn't use Mediums. I usually use the bonuse weapons if quircked to give it the best layout.. That mech should probably be only Dual PPC + 6 medium lasers. I don't think it's fit for Quad PPC. Only a few mechs seem to be ideally capable of it.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1dd2d1c16da1aee

240 damage pure PPC over 12 volleys per heat bar. 150 Damage pure medium lasers per heat bar.

Or http://mwo.smurfy-ne...433a8298b3fd2be

360 damage with pure 2xppc per heat bar. 180 pure 6xML per heat bar.

OK - true about the first statement. I think this was also the reason for MW4 to have only the IS PPC - and the cERPPC
Maybe that could be a possible route for us - do the same for MWO

• Drop the minimum range for PPC
  
• Increase the Cool Down for Clan ERPPC (for example 5-8seconds
  
• Copy the stats from the C-ERPPC to the IS ERPPC

Ok the last might cause some questions. The reason is simple - its MWO reallity that we have the ERPPC and it would be a pitty to let them go the path of the cUAC20; or SHS or Standard Structure on most IS Mechs.
While the build options for IS seems to be better - the heat is a bigger concern simple because you either have issues with space or tonnage - XL makes you a glass cannon and removes space but grants tonnage.

As you should realized now you hardly scram more than 22 DHS into a IS Mech - and SHS are only a option when you would be able to load a dozen or so more - so 22 DHS vs 32 SHS (I did the math somewhere)

However the proposed change also causes a boat load of other changes - with no minmal range the PPC will remove the LPL for example - if you keep the cool down the same. So you need to increase the cooldown for PPC again, and then again for the ERPPC - but what about the Gauss. Did I mentioned the cLPL, or the iERL?

The inter weapon balance as it is (without quirks and build options and game mechanic "pinpoint focus") is very good. A single change might cause changes on all other equipment parts.


..about the Cone Stuff... this is very abstract and i did need a time to understand it. Isn't the Cone (Stalker, SuperNova?) to e found on all Mechs no matter if IS or Clan?
Gargoyle or Executioner for example while hardly able to have 2 ERPPCs and enough heatsinks - are twist monsters you can tank for a while in those Mechs.
The other good ERPPC carrier of the IS is a tank however THunderbolt.

Before the Clans and Ghost Heat the premier PPC carrier was the Stalker - also a cone mech - but instead of twisting you used the high mounts. Neither Warhawk, DireWolf nor SuperNova seem to have high mounts.

[Arugela]

Yea cone mechs are about compensating for the mechs attributes or giving it needed attributes. IS might have less because they have more Yaw heavy quick rotating mechs. They each have geometries to fit the intended purpose. Cones are just one way to do that. It's good fora few things like minimizing time to get crosshairs on enemies after tanking because you move less from the center(aka the target where the los weapon is firing from.) It's just a very big indicator it can forward tank or similar. It's good for slow yaw mechs and mechs that have or can have heavy arm DPS setups and other things. Since you can't arm tank and retain DPS.

You can still use the cone for wiggling if jjing. If you fire and get shot, wiggle back and forth evenly aiming into the weapons fire while falling. It should spread out the damage and help reduce the harm of getting shot mid flight. The point is, within the capabilities of the mech, get it on as many parts as possible so the effective damage is lower per component. It slows down coring. If you receive 100 damage across 5 components(2xarms,2xST,1xST) if evenly distributed it will only be 20 per part. I imagine most of the damage goes into the CT though and lower as you go out naturally. This goes with the way armor is layed out.

I think cone noses also compensate for wider CT and ST. Or to look at it differently it allows wider CT or ST potentially. All mechs have shapes appropriate to their abilities. The geometry is even giving the abilities.

Alot of twist heavies mechs don't need it. Like the atlas with thinner sections(An alternative design.). Although it has a weakness to compensate in the form of a wide fat face with very little ST around it. This is a vulnerability to anything capable of coreing it for a kill. The awesome has both so it can arm tank and then twist and front twist if or as it receives incoming fore to set up a shot. This helps in case the player is smart and fires on it when it tries to fire to get into a section.. Although the smart thing is to hit it when fireing duration based weapons to make it disengage or eat the incoming fire for instance(among other things). One general strategy is to get the enemy to fire first then fire during CD... The awesome can turn from arm tanking, get them to fire, then face tank and return fire. Strategy obviously depends on the situation though.

I don't think the mounts are relevant. It just gives it more options then. It might help when you need to help push and other things on top of hill popping. It might allow the mech more versatility strategically or otherwise. the geometry might fit on mechs with multiple strategy/focuses and it has to fit it. Or it allows a more complex potentially strategy to go with presumed tactics. You'd have to get used to doing it and see how it works on different mechs. If anything it gives you something to do when waiting for CD to reduce damage and not die as quickly.

I find the awesome interesting because it is seemingly and obvious combo mech. It has/can afford wide clunky CT. This is because, if I'm not mistaken, it's cone on a fast twisting mech(Although it does not look like a cone. Protruding might be a better term.). The cone design literally allows wider CT and ST. So with the twisting it can afford to have bigger parts for it's intended role. I don't think it can have more for game balance issues potentially. If it did it would be too awesome! So, each mech has the attributes fit for it's capabilities. The clunky front of the awesome might even add weaknesses too. The side angle might expose the CT more. This would naturally make it need to keep rotating potentially or pay more attention to side angles or whatever else it naturally makes it do... The other pure cone mechs, if I'm correct, naturally get more concentrated/likelihood to hit to ST/Arms from wider angles. likewise, if you don't keep the enemy fire in front. Although it might be less prone to concentrating on the CT as opposed to ST. This would fit for a slower turning mech. The awesome could twist out of it so it doesn't need pure cone. The others are probably slower and would need a better nose.

Edited by Arugela, 10 June 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Arugela, on 30 May 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

ERPPC currently is setup where any reasonable(Edit: max) PPC setup on an assault mech uses 4 PPCs... But by reducing the base damage to 10 instead of 15 makes it so you cannot effectively confront enemy mechs. Assaults on clan need to be able to have a chance to take down enemies of equal size let alone lesser sizes. This means 100 tone mechs.

Three words: Rock, Paper, Scissors.

With ERPPCs as your weapon of choice, you have minimal exposure/face time, extremely high range and pinpoint damage. You cannot also have 50% more DPS, as you request, because balance.

If you want to melt face, equip brawling weapons or, if you want to stick with your PPCs, deal with the consequences of not being a very efficient infighter.