32 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Burke IV, on 31 May 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

As was pointed out elsewhere on here, laser duration quirks are useless for some reason, like they all add up to 0.1 second or sometihng. I dont know if its true, sounds about right tho. Its not difficult or overwhelming, its just..

Why is a mech with JJs forced to take hill climb nodes anyway?

All four laser duration nodes add up to 15% laser duration bonus. About the same level as most quirks. However, for a laser with a duration of 1s this is 0.15 seconds. Shorter duration lasers it is even less and longer it is more.

It may let you put a little more damage on target or twist slightly sooner. However, NONE of the skill tree nodes individually do very much with a few exceptions.

10% reduction in weapon heat ... good right? means a weapon generating 10 heat now does 9 ... saving 1 heat. For a medium laser it might be more like 0.3 heat ... doesn't sound like much but the small reductions add up. However, because they ARE small there can be a lot of variation in builds giving roughly equal effectiveness.

As for hill climb ...
1) hill climb is still useful even if you have jump jets since you can run over uneven terrain better. You may not always want to use your jump jets.
2) You only end up with some hill climb if you buy enough operation tree nodes.

The "chaff" in the operations tree are hill climb, improved gyros and speed retention behind which are the heat capacity and cooling skills that most folks are looking for ... to get all of the heat capacity and cooling nodes you will end up with some mix of the three other skills ... what mixture is your choice though you will have at least 2 hill climb nodes if you get all of the heat nodes. It is just the way the tree works. For most of the skill trees there are the end nodes that most folks are looking for depending on their build and in between are the filler nodes where folks decide on which combination of support skills will work better for their play style. It is a change from the way things used to work with a limited choice of all or nothing modules ... now you choose some subset of module abilities by selecting tree nodes that fit your build and play style as well as possible.

To the OP ... the new skill tree isn't hard to use but when looking for the first time many people will find 237 different skill nodes to be daunting ... and trying to map out an optimal 91 could induce analysis paralysis in some folks. The fact is that there are probably multiple different 91 skill sets that will work fairly well for most specific mechs and builds.

[Jackal Noble]

process, on 31 May 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

The skill tree isn't difficult per se, it's overly convoluted. The enormous array of nodes means each is only carrying a minuscule improvement value which is difficult to appreciate when not aggregated, which is a result of this game not, for good reason, being a typical RPG. We simply can't have stats increase beyond 10-15% without creating major discrepancies, so you end up with values like +0.75% -- meaningless in practice.

Because the values are small and unintuitive, it takes a tremendous amount of trial-and-error to get a "feel" for the improvements. Unfortunately, because PGI made the asinine decision to implement a respec fee, testing alternate configurations comes with a price that puts a damper on the skill tree experience.

For example, I was testing whether poptart Victors were viable again; full jumpjets and maxed out jumpjet tree. My experience in the testing ground was underwhelming. Now I've sunk 20 SP into a tree I have no intention of using, plus the potential of having to reinvest 8,000 XP to respec, and upwards of an additional 16,000 XP and 900,000 cbills for 20 new SP. I can accommodate this pretty easily since I have a massive pile of HSP, HXP, GXP, cbills, but how fun does that seem for a new player?

So much this. I too have a generous amount of cash to respec on a whim. The moment that moolah begins to wane, or or the process of respecing becomes agitating, I might reconsider my options.
I just hope it's not to much of a burden on new players.

Edited by JackalBeast, 31 May 2017 - 10:07 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Ive been walking through the first step of the skill tree with a lot of people since the patch in the chat and this is my conclusion.

Casual get lost in the xp gsp gxp sp window IF they find it at all. Hell, i was trying to help someone spend his xp for a few minutes before i found the box where you type the amount you need. Its just laying there, unnoticeable and almost invisible in design. Theres 3 different execution of transfering (SP to your mech), (XP to your mech) and (xp to gxp) and this in itself isnt confusing but its extra step to do the same thing but differently. It comes to a point where you start clicking things, graphic, buttons numbers, anything, just to see if it does something... and ive been using it since the first pts and reading all about it for a long time already.

Soon the patch note will be buried and you wont be able to say "read the patch note noobs". DEV, keep that in mind.

The tree isnt complicated, but the execution of the xp system is poorly explained INGAME. Actualy it isnt explained at all. With the ledger button there should be a link to a video visually showing pilot xp transformed into sp, it could be done in less than 60 seconds.

I have however little compassion for those who cant decide what to do with their mech and have a panic attack.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 31 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

FTFY.

And in case that was not clear enough, my answer is "Yes! It's definitely not fun to use.".

Fun is subjective.

[MechaBattler]

Skill tree is not hard. If you realize that much of it is just things that already existed in the previous skill tree and some are like quirks. Then you know what it does.

The only hard part is finding what each mech needs without wasting XP or C-bills. If you want to be thorough, you need to play it unskilled. Then add to what you feel it's lacking. I've had to make slight changes to mechs I already mastered due to it needing different things.

It can seem tedious but you tend to build the same patterns for the same roles. Barely have to think about it.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Fun is subjective.

You are correct.

But, my fun is directly proportional to PGI's earnings from me. And right now they're getting diddly squat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 31 May 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

You are correct.

But, my fun is directly proportional to PGI's earnings from me. And right now they're getting diddly squat.

And yet, for someone else, the ability to customize has increased their fun, and thus said earnings for PGI. Kind of crazy how that works.

Skill Tree is not perfect, but it's pretty damn good, and IMO, fun and functional.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

And yet, for someone else, the ability to customize has increased their fun, and thus said earnings for PGI. Kind of crazy how that works.

It would be nice if it was just a part of the equipment rather than this magical tree. Improved gyros could easily be replaced by the advanced gyros (speed retention could go with it). Cool shots are weightless coolant pods. UAVs could be like remote sensors. Survival tree could be modular armor, reinforced structure, hardened armor, etc. Sensor tree could also be replaced. What can I say, I don't like progression and customization mixing in a Mechwarrior game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 May 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

It would be nice if it was just a part of the equipment rather than this magical tree. Improved gyros could easily be replaced by the advanced gyros (speed retention could go with it). Cool shots are weightless coolant pods. UAVs could be like remote sensors. Survival tree could be modular armor, reinforced structure, hardened armor, etc. Sensor tree could also be replaced. What can I say, I don't like progression and customization mixing in a Mechwarrior game.

I would prefer no skill tree, no modules, no add ons, period. On record saying that multiple times.

That said, a skill tree, of some manner has been a part of this game since, go, and part of their "mission statement".

So, if I have to have one, I'd rather have one like this that allows me some deeper customization.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

So, if I have to have one, I'd rather have one like this that allows me some deeper customization.

I'm willing to compromise here and say this one is too open, some paths should be required with deviations left for player choice.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 May 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 May 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm willing to compromise here and say this one is too open, some paths should be required with deviations left for player choice.

Once stuff starts being "required" it should just be a basic feature to begin with, instead of requiring action by the player, IMO.

Perhaps this is too MMO for a FPS game (...what MWO have an identity crisis? NEVER! ), but honestly for those who want to use "Less than Meta" with some degree of success, I feel this is about what is needed. Especially since once a person does figure it out, it takes all of 5 minutes to actually do. (Sure, it one is going along fresh it may seem less so, but the paths and points and nodes are pretty direct, based on build, role, etc... not like a person is going to "get lost" after thei second or third build)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 May 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Once stuff starts being "required" it should just be a basic feature to begin with, instead of requiring action by the player, IMO.

That's true, but PGI wants progression, and that can be part of the progression as long as it is uniform across all mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 31 May 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

That's true, but PGI wants progression, and that can be part of the progression as long as it is uniform across all mechs.

to me that's just artificial progress (much like the old "skill tree" was. ), if it's uniform, and as such I find that more obnoxious/offensive than something like this where I actually do have my hands on the wheel and my choices do let me truly customize.

*shrugs*